Is Jesus really God?

[Pluggedin]

When I was agnostic, I used the following passages, said by Jesus, in the bible to refute the diety of Jesus. Now that I am back in the Catholic church, I am trying to answer the very questions that I used to ask. How would you explain these statements attributed to Jesus which seem to state that he wasn’t God?

“It’s not I that doeth the works, but the father that dweleth within me”

“The father is greater than I”

“I ascend to my father and your father”

Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[VociMike]

When I was agnostic, I used the following passages, said by Jesus, in the bible to refute the diety of Jesus. Now that I am back in the Catholic church, I am trying to answer the very questions that I used to ask. How would you explain these statements attributed to Jesus which seem to state that he wasn’t God?

“It’s not I that doeth the works, but the father that dweleth within me”

“The father is greater than I”

“I ascend to my father and your father”

Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut.

Jesus is fully God, but He proceeds from the Father, while the Father proceeds from no thing or no one. In that sense alone is the Father greater. Certainly the Father dwells in the Son - that is simply a (partial) statement of the Trinity. And there is also the aspect of giving honor to one’s father, just as the commandment requires. For example, a fabulous baseball player could say “I didn’t hit those home runs, my dad hit them”, as a shorthand way of paying due homage to what the father has given the son.

 

[Strider]

Jesus is True God and True man. As a fully human, “A man like us in all things but sin…” (Eusharistic Prayer # 4), he had to learn carpentry, for example. As True God, he turned water into wine.
As man, he could say in all truth that “Only the Father…” knows the last day, but as True God, He knows it quite well.
The hypostatic union of Jesus’ Divine and human natures is a mystery, but we can have some glimpses into His dual nature.

 

[Nita]

When I was agnostic, I used the following passages, said by Jesus, in the bible to refute the diety of Jesus. Now that I am back in the Catholic church, I am trying to answer the very questions that I used to ask. How would you explain these statements attributed to Jesus which seem to state that he wasn’t God?

“It’s not I that doeth the works, but the father that dweleth within me”

“The father is greater than I”

“I ascend to my father and your father”

Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut.

“It’s not I that doeth the works, but the father that dwelleth in me”
(I tend to get a bit wordy, so underlined the pertinent portion.)
If you read all the surrounding passages (John 14:7-11) you see that the primary point Jesus was making is His oneness with the Father. Jesus is telling Philip that He (Jesus) is God. His words also begin to reveal the Trinity - that there is more than one Person in God, yet they are one. “He who sees me sees the Father”. The title Father is a definite reference to God which Philip would recognize. By showing His unity with the Father and that it is the Father who does the works, Jesus is saying that the miracles are done through Divine power, the Divine power of the Father with whom He is united, and not through the power of His human nature. This section in John’s gospel is a great revelation by Jesus of His two natures - Divine and human.

“The Father is greater than I.”
This is understood in the sense that by uniting Himself to a human nature, Jesus became “less”.
(Phillipians 2:5-7 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.)
Divine nature is far greater than human nature. Jesus is essentially saying that Divine nature alone (Father) is greater than Divine nature and human nature together (Jesus); the human nature makes it less.
In His divinity, the Son is equal to the Father

“I ascend to My Father and to your Father.”
This is sometimes taken to show that Jesus relationship to the Father is different from our relationship (rest of humanity).

Hope this helps.

Nita

 

[rwoehmke]

In reading the words attributed to Jesus in the scriptures it becomes rather obvious that sometimes he spoke out of his human nature and at other times out of the divine. To draw conclusions from those words that he was only one or the other, God or Human, not God and Human leads one into error.

 

[CatholismRox]

If you believe in the Trinity, you believe Jesus is God.

 

[dorothy_smith]

When I was agnostic, I used the following passages, said by Jesus, in the bible to refute the diety of Jesus. Now that I am back in the Catholic church, I am trying to answer the very questions that I used to ask. How would you explain these statements attributed to Jesus which seem to state that he wasn’t God?

“It’s not I that doeth the works, but the father that dweleth within me”

“The father is greater than I”

“I ascend to my father and your father”

Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut.

It is not I ‘the human being’ that doeth the works but the father (God) that dweleth in me. Jesus the man was the vessel in which Jesus the God dwelt. The vessel didn’t do the works.

The father is greater that I (greater than the good man not Jesus the God).

I ascend to my father ad to your father (essentially we are all God because we are all part of God. Just the same as we are all part of our fathers). Jesus was saying that He ascends to the fathers of all (God).

 

[Della]

When I was agnostic, I used the following passages, said by Jesus, in the bible to refute the diety of Jesus. Now that I am back in the Catholic church, I am trying to answer the very questions that I used to ask. How would you explain these statements attributed to Jesus which seem to state that he wasn’t God?

“It’s not I that doeth the works, but the father that dweleth within me”

“The father is greater than I”

“I ascend to my father and your father”

Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut.

Jesus is speaking here, as he generally did, as the Son of Man as opposed to the Son of God. He humbled himself to take on the flesh of humanity. He, in effect, laid aside his privileges as God and did all his miracles through the power of the Holy Spirit. He did this to make it possible for us to live through the power of the Holy Spirit, too. He is the Second Adam, the one who brought new life to humankind.

Another poster said that “Jesus became less.” That’s not the case, though. Jesus neither gained anything nor lost anything by taking on his human nature. But he did humble himself by living as a human being while he lived among us, being obedient to God as any other Jewish man of his time.

 

[Nita]

Another poster said that “Jesus became less.” That’s not the case, though. Jesus neither gained anything nor lost anything by taking on his human nature. But he did humble himself by living as a human being while he lived among us, being obedient to God as any other Jewish man of his time.

Thanks for the correction Della.
(Altho when I say “Jesus became less”, I don’t mean that the Divine nature of the Second Person became less.)
But that aside, your post made me do some digging. And because of that, in addition to the “Jesus became less”, I would like to rescind the following sentence from my post:
“Jesus is essentially saying that Divine nature alone (Father) is greater than Divine nature and human nature together (Jesus); the human nature makes it less.” I thought I had read the equivalent of that in a commentary on that passage, but was unable to find it - or anything else that would support that interpretation. (Altho I haven’t checked Aquinas yet. )

Thanks again,
Nita

 

[rwoehmke]

I ascend to my father and to your father (essentially we are all God because we are all part of God. Just the same as we are all part of our fathers). Jesus was saying that He ascends to the fathers of all (God).

I would be careful about this statement as we are not part of God in the sense proposed by the New Age people. We are human and through sanctifying grace God raises our nature up to a level where we can participate in the love that is the life of the trinity, but it does not change humans into God and give us a divine nature. I don’t think you meant to say that we become God in that we acquire a divine nature., but some might misconstrue the statement.

 

[dorothy_smith]

I would be careful about this statement as we are not part of God in the sense proposed by the New Age people. We are human and through sanctifying grace God raises our nature up to a level where we can participate in the love that is the life of the trinity, but it does not change humans into God and give us a divine nature. I don’t think you meant to say that we become God in that we acquire a divine nature., but some might misconstrue the statement.

Point taken

(BTW I know nought about ‘the New Age people’ )

 

[auhsoj88]

**God, told Moses his name was Yahweh, Which means " AM."

John 8:23-24 (speaking with unbelieving Jews)*** 23 And he said to them, You are from below: I am from above; you are from this world, I am not from this world. 24 That is why I have told you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM**, you will die in your sins*".

John 8:56-59* (Speaking with unbelieving Jews)** 56 “Your Father Abraham, rejoiced to see my day; he saw it and was glad.” 57 The Jews then said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and you have seen Abraham!” 58 Jesus said to them: “Amen! Amen! I tell you, before Abraham came in to being , I AM”. 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, But Jesus hid himself, and wend out of the temple*.

Notice the second time the Jews wanted to throw stones at him.

In Christ!