Is Jesus's Descent into a Hell Binding Doctrine

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I’ve recently heard someone address Jesus’s descent into Hell as a “little t tradition.” By this I assume it’s meant that this belief isn’t part of Sacred Tradition. I find this confusing because it’s meantioned in our creed. To me, this would indicate that it was a big T Tradition. So what kind of tradition is this doctrine?
 
C794 said:
I’ve recently heard someone address Jesus’s descent into Hell as a “little t tradition.” By this I assume it’s meant that this belief isn’t part of Sacred Tradition. I find this confusing because it’s meantioned in our creed. To me, this would indicate that it was a big T Tradition. So what kind of tradition is this doctrine?
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Was your friend actually saying that it is not required belief? It certainly is required belief, as the following extract from the Catechism makes clear:

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P1R.HTM

Being required belief, of Apostolic origin and supported by scripture, it is hard to see that it is anything less than big T Tradition.
 
No, he didn’t actually that say it wasn’t a required belief. He just said that it was a “little t tradition” that has been around as long as some of the “big T Traditions”.
 
C794 said:
No, he didn’t actually that say it wasn’t a required belief. He just said that it was a “little t tradition” that has been around as long as some of the “big T Traditions”.
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Then why was your thread title questioning whether it was binding doctrine (= required belief)?

Simple - required belief + Apostolic origin of said belief = big T Tradition. The Church does not require us to believe anything unimportant or “small” for one.

Small t tradition includes only the stuff that is not required belief for one thing.
 
LilyM said:
Then why was your thread title questioning whether it was binding doctrine (= required belief)?

Simple - required belief + Apostolic origin of said belief = big T Tradition. The Church does not require us to believe anything unimportant or “small” for one.

Small t tradition includes only the stuff that is not required belief for one thing.
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I titled my thread that based on my interpretation of what “little t tradition” meant. Since it was explicitly called a “little t tradition” then I guess that would indicate that it wasn’t viewed as a required belief. Especially since this person made a distinction between it and the “big T Traditions.” He just didn’t say that it wasn’t required.
 
C794 said:
I titled my thread that based on my interpretation of what “little t tradition” meant. Since it was explicitly called a “little t tradition” then I guess that would indicate that it wasn’t viewed as a required belief. Especially since this person made a distinction between it and the “big T Traditions.” He just didn’t say that it wasn’t required.
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It’s a real historical event. Here’s a post about it you might like:
catholicnick.blogspot.com/2013/03/christ-did-not-descend-into-hell-on.html
 
It’s in the Niceno–Constantinopolitan Creed. We don’t know if the teachings of these two Ecumenical Councils are infallible with respect to the Creed (because the Church has not told us so), but there’s absolutely no doubt that it is Catholic Doctrine (we’ve been saying it at every Mass for sixteen hundred years), and thus is binding upon all Catholics (all Doctrine is binding upon all Catholics, whether it is recognized as infallible or not).
 
C794 said:
I’ve recently heard someone address Jesus’s descent into Hell as a “little t tradition.” By this I assume it’s meant that this belief isn’t part of Sacred Tradition. I find this confusing because it’s meantioned in our creed. To me, this would indicate that it was a big T Tradition. So what kind of tradition is this doctrine?
Click to expand...
The problem comes from the fact that the English word “Hell” is used to translate different concepts.

The descent to the dead, to the “Limbo of the Fathers” (= Sheol or “the dead”, roughly), is part of Sacred Tradition with a capital T.

What isn’t is the age-old folk belief that Jesus actually descended into Gehenna (the place of punishment) and ransomed certain souls, such as Judas Iscariot, from there. (This is sometimes referred to as the Harrowing of Hell, and was the occasion for folk dances and revelry.)

This has never been a part of the Church’s official teaching, though it has been revived by some modern theologians (such as von Balthasar) who claim that Christ experienced complete abandonment (= Gehenna) as part of His work of atonement. But this is just speculation, and there are good arguments against it.
 
This teaching, encapsulated in the Apostle’s creed, is based on 1 Peter 3:18-20 and 1** Peter 4:6**. And yes,“hell” is “sheol” or more simply, the abode of the dead. Jesus gave us a glimpse of it in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16:19-31). Neither Lazarus nor Abraham were in heaven, but Lazarus was being comforted. As well, this accords with the parable of being thrown into prison and not getting out until you have paid every penmny (Matthew 5:25-26). It all points to a certain Catholic doctrine which many Christians do not believe, but which Paul alluded to in 1 Corinthians 3:13-15.
 
All the statements of the Creed are binding because one must profess belief in them in order to be baptized. In the case of infants, the parents and godparents express belief on behalf of the infants, and when these children are older they affirm their belief in the Creed in certain liturgies (such as at Sunday Mass) and at Confirmation. The Apostles’ Creed (wherein the statement “descended into hell” is specifically used) was the original baptismal creed and is still an option for use at Mass.

The aspects of the Creed are also binding because they are part of the Deposit of the Faith, meaning that they are official magisterial statements pertaining to faith and morals, drawn from Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. In terms of the Apostles’ Creed, the Baltimore Catechism states, “We find the chief truths taught by Jesus Christ through the Catholic Church in the Apostles’ Creed” (#6). Moreover, Catholicism for Dummies identifies the Apostles’ Creed & Nicene Creed as examples of Sacred Tradition, as can be seen here.

Gratia vobis et pax multiplicetur,
Fr. Eric
Diocese of Savannah
 
C794 said:
No, he didn’t actually that say it wasn’t a required belief. He just said that it was a “little t tradition” that has been around as long as some of the “big T Traditions”.
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Capital “T” Tradition is revealed truth.

That Christ descended into hell to preach to the souls in the prison is revealed truth.

For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. (1 Peter 3:18-20)

That Christ descended into Hell is one of the most basic beliefs of our faith.

-Tim-
 
EricFilmer said:
The Apostles’ Creed (wherein the statement “descended into hell” is specifically used) was the original baptismal creed and is still an option for use at Mass.
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My brother is, of course, correct. I had earlier claimed this phrase belonged to the Niceno–Constantinopolitan Creed, which we (more typically) recite at Mass. I retract this claim and stand corrected by my brother (but, then again, he is a priest and holds two master degrees in theology, so I don’t feel too bad about it). Obviously the rest of his post remains unchallenged - this descent (into whatever we might term the realm of the dead) is clearly Catholic doctrine, and obviously Catholic doctrine does not allow for the possibility that anyone judged unto condemnation (which we typically call “hell”) can be rehabilitated and later attain salvation.
 
po18guy said:
Just not the hell of the damned. Semantics, but it makes a “world” of difference!
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DavidFilmer said:
…this descent (into whatever we might term the realm of the dead) is clearly Catholic doctrine, and obviously Catholic doctrine does not allow for the possibility that anyone judged unto condemnation (which we typically call “hell”) can be rehabilitated and later attain salvation.
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Correct. Naturally people tend to associate the term “hell” with the abode of Satan, demons and the souls of the damned, but this is not what is being referred to in the Apostles’ Creed. In addition to this observance by po18guy, David (and others in this thread), I’ll throw in some official statements from the Catechism:

The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was “raised from the dead” presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection. This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ’s descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there. (CCC #632)

Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”: “It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.” Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him. (CCC #633)

The Catechism’s complete elaboration on the “He descended into hell” phrase from the Apostles’ Creed are contained within paragraphs 631 - 637.

Gratia vobis et pax multiplicetur,
Fr. Eric
Diocese of Savannah
 
C794 said:
I’ve recently heard someone address Jesus’s descent into Hell as a “little t tradition.” By this I assume it’s meant that this belief isn’t part of Sacred Tradition. I find this confusing because it’s meantioned in our creed. To me, this would indicate that it was a big T Tradition. So what kind of tradition is this doctrine?
Click to expand...
From Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma.

"After His Death, Christ’s soul, which was separated from His Body, descended into the underworld. (De fide.)
The underworld is the place of detention for the souls of the just of the pre-Christian era, the so-called vestibule of hell (limbus Patrum). "​

“Christ, who once for sinners bled, now the firstborn from the dead, throned in endless might and pow’r, lives and reigns forevermore.” (hymn)
 
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