Is lack of favor of the death penalty one issue in which the Church is closer to liberals than conservatives?

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meltzerboy

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Although the Church is not entirely opposed to the death penalty, it has spoken against it. So have many liberals. Is this one issue in which the Church and liberals see eye to eye, or are there different reasons for their opposition?
 
Although the Church is not entirely opposed to the death penalty, it has spoken against it. So have many liberals. Is this one issue in which the Church and liberals see eye to eye, or are there different reasons for their opposition?
I assume you are using the generalized definition of “liberal.” If so, I would say that the similar positions are based on very dissimilar foundations. The Church’s from the sanctity of life and the liberal’s from something else given the general support for abortion among liberals.
 
I assume you are using the generalized definition of “liberal.” If so, I would say that the similar positions are based on very dissimilar foundations. The Church’s from the sanctity of life and the liberal’s from something else given the general support for abortion among liberals.
Good point, but what do you think that “something else” is?
 
Although the Church is not entirely opposed to the death penalty, it has spoken against it. So have many liberals. Is this one issue in which the Church and liberals see eye to eye, or are there different reasons for their opposition?
It is only seen as a ‘liberal’ position in America. In every other Christian country in the world the objection to a death penalty is rejected across the philosophical spectrum.
 
I don’t see the Church as being closer to liberals or conservatives, but simply humanitarian.
 
Although the Church is not entirely opposed to the death penalty, it has spoken against it. So have many liberals. Is this one issue in which the Church and liberals see eye to eye, or are there different reasons for their opposition?
In a general sense yes

The church speaks truth. Bits of truth are found everywhere. To say the church is politically conservative or liberal is not practical. The church just is.
 
Although the Church is not entirely opposed to the death penalty, it has spoken against it. So have many liberals. Is this one issue in which the Church and liberals see eye to eye, or are there different reasons for their opposition?
I think it related to a different foundation on the surface. Most people who are for the death penalty, I believe, hold that position because they see it as the only way to protect society from ruthless murderers, serial killers, and even sexual predators who kill or those who kill in the commission of a violent crime. They sort of hold the “eye for an eye” mentality regardless of their Christian beliefs or lack of the them.

In reality it is my opinion that more people believe in the death penalty than not, despite what they say publicly. We don’t really live in times where people are that honest about their views, particularly since there always seems to be a way to hold it against them. I am for the death penalty in cases like those mentioned above and I am a Catholic. Serial killers are too dangerous to be allowed back into society, and so many involved in violent gangs seem to continue to run their operation while in prison, it seems the only answer. (Those who arrange for hits!) As for sexual predators, they at least should be locked up for life. None of this living in society as a registered sex offender for me!

In all I don’t think it is truly a liberal or conservative issue. Those with political interests make it a political issue for their own gain most of the time, regardless of actual position.
When it comes down to human nature I don’t think there are many of us who want a serial killer, or murderous “nut bar” living next to us. Same with sexual predators.
 
Well I mean, that’s the reality of the Church. The Church speaks complete, absolute, Truth. Individual political parties may share views with it, but no Party speaks complete truth. There are areas that Republicans completely fail on, and there are areas that Democrats completely fail on. And I’m sure it’s the same in other countries as well. While it would be nice if there was a “Catholic Party,” unfortunately it wouldn’t get many non-Catholic votes here.
 
Although the Church is not entirely opposed to the death penalty, it has spoken against it. So have many liberals. Is this one issue in which the Church and liberals see eye to eye, or are there different reasons for their opposition?
One thing to keep in mind is that the Church has not always been against the death penalty. For example, St Augustine:

However, there are some exceptions made by the divine authority to its own law, that men may not be put to death. These exceptions are of two kinds, being justified either by a general law, or by a special commission granted for a time to some individual. And in this latter case, he to whom authority is delegated, and who is but the sword in the hand of him who uses it, is not himself responsible for the death he deals.

- De Civitate Dei 1.21
St Thomas Aquinas:

Now every part is directed to the whole, as imperfect to perfect, wherefore every part is naturally for the sake of the whole. For this reason we observe that if the health of the whole body demands the excision of a member, through its being decayed or infectious to the other members, it will be both praiseworthy and advantageous to have it cut away. Now every individual person is compared to the whole community, as part to whole. Therefore if a man be dangerous and infectious to the community, on account of some sin, it is praiseworthy and advantageous that he be killed in order to safeguard the common good, since “a little leaven corrupteth the whole lump” (1 Corinthians 5:6).


Vengeance is lawful and virtuous so far as it tends to the prevention of evil. Now some who are not influenced by motive of virtue are prevented from committing sin, through fear of losing those things which they love more than those they obtain by sinning, else fear would be no restraint to sin. Consequently vengeance for sin should be taken by depriving a man of what he loves most. Now the things which man loves most are life, bodily safety, his own freedom, and external goods such as riches, his country and his good name. Wherefore, according to Augustine’s reckoning (De Civ. Dei xxi), “Tully writes that the laws recognize eight kinds of punishment”: namely, “death,” whereby man is deprived of life; “stripes,” “retaliation,” or the loss of eye for eye, whereby man forfeits his bodily safety; “slavery,” and “imprisonment,” whereby he is deprived of freedom; “exile” whereby he is banished from his country; “fines,” whereby he is mulcted in his riches; “ignominy,” whereby he loses his good name.

On the other hand, he also says:

Two vices are opposed to vengeance: one by way of excess, namely, the sin of cruelty or brutality, which exceeds the measure in punishing: while the other is a vice by way of deficiency and consists in being remiss in punishing, wherefore it is written (Proverbs 13:24): “He that spareth the rod hateth his son.” But the virtue of vengeance consists in observing the due measure of vengeance with regard to all the circumstances.

II-II-108-2

The Church’s argument has become more opposed to capital punishment over time because it is seen, in this day and time, as not being necessary anymore for society to defend itself against the criminal and that retribution could be as effectively gained (thus providing for commutative justice) by depriving an individual of his liberty for life.

I don’t know the liberal thought process on it (other than I’m certain that it is somehow “feelings” based), but that, to my understanding, is how the Church has evolved over time.
 
That’s a good question, meltzerboy, and the simple answer is yes. You can see how people get uncomfortable being associated with “Liberals” though! :o There are several issues with which the Catholic teaching is more in line with the Democrat position, the death penalty being one of them. Immigration is another. Economic stuff is another. Gun control is another. We’re also not big on war-mongering, although the Dems have been more guilty than the Republicans of that lately.

The Catholic Church’s teachings do not fit neatly into either political party’s platform, and I think it’s a good thing when we are all reminded of that. 👍
 
Yes, thankfully. It would make no sense for someone or an organization to oppose abortion but once that individual is alive and breaks the law, call for their death.
 
That’s a good question, meltzerboy, and the simple answer is yes. You can see how people get uncomfortable being associated with “Liberals” though! :o There are several issues with which the Catholic teaching is more in line with the Democrat position, the death penalty being one of them. Immigration is another. Economic stuff is another. Gun control is another. We’re also not big on war-mongering, although the Dems have been more guilty than the Republicans of that lately.

The Catholic Church’s teachings do not fit neatly into either political party’s platform, and I think it’s a good thing when we are all reminded of that. 👍
In re: immigration, you may wish to consider re-reading the catechism on that subject.

(Besides, I don’t know too many conservatives who have positions that are opposed to anything on immigration as stated in the Catechism)

In re: economic issues. I suggest you take a really good look at the teachings of the Church. Particularly Rerum Novarum, Quadragesimo Anno, Centesimus Annus, and Deus Caritas Est. As a matter of a fact, CA absolutely condemns the social assistance state that modern day liberals are constantly trying to foist on the populace.

Just sayin’
 
In re: immigration, you may wish to consider re-reading the catechism on that subject.

(Besides, I don’t know too many conservatives who have positions that are opposed to anything on immigration as stated in the Catechism)

In re: economic issues. I suggest you take a really good look at the teachings of the Church. Particularly Rerum Novarum, Quadragesimo Anno, Centesimus Annus, and Deus Caritas Est. As a matter of a fact, CA absolutely condemns the social assistance state that modern day liberals are constantly trying to foist on the populace.

Just sayin’
Thank you for the (name removed by moderator)ut, but I don’t think we should muddy this topic by bringing in debates about other political subjects. I have already done my research with regards to the teachings of our Church on these matters, and how they line up with the political platforms, and I stand by what I said.
 
Thank you for the (name removed by moderator)ut, but I don’t think we should muddy this topic by bringing in debates about other political subjects…
Then why did you bring it up?

That’s fine if you don’t care to derail the thread, but, with all due respect and charity, please consider the potential for derailing a thread when responding. That will help all of us.

Thank you for your consideration.

Very respectfully,
 
Then why did you bring it up?

That’s fine if you don’t care to derail the thread, but, with all due respect and charity, please consider the potential for derailing a thread when responding. That will help all of us.

Thank you for your consideration.

Very respectfully,
Point taken. I mentioned those issues in passing to make the point that the Church doesn’t fall into one category, so if we align on one issue it should not be taken as a general endorsement for the party. I really am sorry for not being more clear, and I’ll bow out now.
 
Although the Church is not entirely opposed to the death penalty, it has spoken against it. So have many liberals. Is this one issue in which the Church and liberals see eye to eye, or are there different reasons for their opposition?
There are different reasons for their opposition. Here’s what the Swiss theologian Romano Amerio had to say in his Iota Unum:

Opposition to the death penalty stems from two diverse and incompatible sets of reasons, and can only be evaluated in the light of the moral assumptions on which it is based. Horror at a crime can coexist with sympathy for human weakness, and with a sense of the human freedom that renders a man capable of rising from any fall as long as his life lasts; hence opposition to the death penalty. But opposition can also stem from the notion that every person is inviolable inasmuch as he is a self-conscious subject living out his life in the world; as if temporal life were an end in itself that could not be suppressed without frustrating the purpose of human existence. Although often thought of as religiously inspired, this second type of reason for rejecting capital punishment is in fact irreligious. It overlooks the fact that from a Christian point of view earthly life is not an end in itself, but a means to life’s moral goal, a goal that transcends the whole order of subordinate worldly goods. Therefore to take away a man’s life is by no means to take away the transcendent end for which he was born and which guarantees his true dignity.

The Church’s opposition is based on the concrete circumstances in the time we live in. Similarly, the Church had shown opposition to the death penalty be practiced in the early Church; not in principle, for you’ll struggle to find a Church Father against capital punishment per se, but in practice since the Church has always preferred bloodless means if possible.

I suppose the reason liberals are against capital punishment comes from their Enlightenment roots, seeing our mortal life as all there is. Voltaire’s Candide comes to mind.
 
Although the Church is not entirely opposed to the death penalty, it has spoken against it. So have many liberals. Is this one issue in which the Church and liberals see eye to eye, or are there different reasons for their opposition?
I’ll take Vastly Different Reasons for $100.
*The mounting opposition to the death penalty in Europe since the Enlightenment has gone hand in hand with a decline of faith in eternal life. In the nineteenth century the most consistent supporters of capital punishment were the Christian churches, and its most consistent opponents were groups hostile to the churches. When death came to be understood as the ultimate evil rather than as a stage on the way to eternal life, utilitarian philosophers such as Jeremy Bentham found it easy to dismiss capital punishment as “useless annihilation.”

Many governments in Europe and elsewhere have eliminated the death penalty in the twentieth century, often against the protests of religious believers. While this change may be viewed as moral progress, it is probably due, in part, to the evaporation of the sense of sin, guilt, and retributive justice, all of which are essential to biblical religion and Catholic faith. The abolition of the death penalty in formerly Christian countries may owe more to secular humanism than to deeper penetration into the gospel. * (Cardinal Dulles)

Ender
 
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