Is Liberalism A Sin?

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:confused: Let me put it this way:

Conversly, would any of you consider Fascism a sin? Or the philosophy of the extreme Right? Perhaps some in history went “too far,” but what if you simply judge them by their real intentions, their promises, their theories?
Fact: Air ace Moelders of the Luftwaffe was a devout Catholic, during World War II. Was he on the “sinful” side? …or not?
 
fix said:
New Advent
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If that sort of definition is what you and the church call “Liberalism,” then of course we are not liberals. Are you all sure you are not making some sort of strawman out of “Liberalism”?
More questions:
Is secular small-l liberalism as we understand it today a Sin?
Is all Rebellion A Sin?
Is defiance A Sin?
 
Mark & Marilyn:
If that sort of definition is what you and the church call “Liberalism,” then of course we are not liberals. Are you all sure you are not making some sort of strawman out of “Liberalism”?
More questions:
Is secular small-l liberalism as we understand it today a Sin?
Is all Rebellion A Sin?
Is defiance A Sin?
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The Pope has used the term very recently in his address to the Roman Curia:
…Catholic social doctrine, as it developed, had become an important model between radical liberalism and the Marxist theory of the state…
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…In this process of change through continuity we had to learn how to understand better than before that the Church’s decisions about contingent matters – for example, about actual forms of liberalism or liberal interpretations of the Bible – were necessarily themselves contingent because related to a reality itself changeable…
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**”Two forms of interpretation have struggled with each other…” **

**by Benedict XVI
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chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=44072&eng=y**
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Mark & Marilyn:
If that sort of definition is what you and the church call “Liberalism,” then of course we are not liberals. Are you all sure you are not making some sort of strawman out of “Liberalism”?
More questions:
Is secular small-l liberalism as we understand it today a Sin?
Is all Rebellion A Sin?
Is defiance A Sin?
Click to expand...
I would add that definitions are importatnt to the discussion. Is modern day political liberalism a sin? I guess it would depend on how one defines that ideology. Certanly many of the issues that seem to fall under that heading are a sin like abortion, same sex marriage, etc.

Rebellion and defiance also need to be properly defined if we are to call then sinful. Is one rebelling against the moral law or just authority? Is one in defiance to Christ?
 
Yes, “Liberalism” is a sin.

71

47.02%
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No, “Liberalism” in not a sin.

63

41.72%
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I don’t know?

17

11.26%
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Voters: 151. You have already voted on this poll

This is strange, 151% voted? I wonder if this occurs in all the polls? :hmmm:
 
coyote said:
Checks and balances people. Checks and balances!
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Thank you for your post and I agree with you for the most part, except when it comes to abortion, wouldn’t you agree?

Too bad the process of “Checks and Balances” has not banned abortions… Do we need more checks or more balancing to stop the legal mass murder of innocent, helpless babies?

Isn’t abortion an official Democratic Party Platform Priority; “Protect a Woman’s Right to Choose" (to kill her baby)? I believe it is.
 
well I think liberalism is a sin-my reason, it destroys your moral values by incrementalism so little by little it progresses into a monster with no rules or boundries-example nancy pelosi shes a liberal and a catholic but shes for abortion and gay marriage,same with john kerry,so if your a catholic, liberalism doesnt mesh with the church-because you force your own interpretation of what the church should be-as society becomes more liberal it becomes sick-you cant deny that things in the world are getting worse because of liberated views or actions of some-look at Wallstreet-look at the kids today beating up busdrivers and killing there own parents-look at the parents today they want to be young and hang out with there kids,and T.V is to blame because thats what we base our reality on is T.V and all the shows and reality shows T.V comes from the most liberal town in America HollyWood -as liberalism chips away at our moral thought,GOD will chip away the foundation we stand on
 
mjc1377 said:
well I think liberalism is a sin-my reason, it destroys your moral values by incrementalism so little by little it progresses into a monster with no rules or boundries-example nancy pelosi shes a liberal and a catholic but shes for abortion and gay marriage,same with john kerry,so if your a catholic, liberalism doesnt mesh with the church-because you force your own interpretation of what the church should be-as society becomes more liberal it becomes sick-you cant deny that things in the world are getting worse because of liberated views or actions of some-look at Wallstreet-look at the kids today beating up busdrivers and killing there own parents-look at the parents today they want to be young and hang out with there kids,and T.V** is to blame because thats what we base our reality on is T.V** and all the shows and reality shows T.V comes from the most liberal town in America HollyWood -as liberalism chips away at our moral thought,GOD will chip away the foundation we stand on
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👍
 
For those who feel that liberalism is sinful or evil, I have a question:

How do you define “liberalism?” If my education is worth anything, I would say that liberalism is the political position that tradition should not be respected above the individuals who formulate it. This makes for more flexible and lenient ethical and legal systems, since the possibility for new understanding to be gained and for the old ways to be challenged is always permitted and expected. In this conception, liberalism basically amounts to the realization that we are not as efficient as we could be, and that it is worth the risk to try and improve. Change is not our enemy. Obviously, we could get into more sophisticated discussions about the many different liberal ethical systems, but liberalism doesn’t seem to have any prevailing ethical system or religious stance, so to say that it necessarily disagrees with the Church is absurd. Liberalism itself is very broad, and cannot be labeled as many of the posters here attempt.
 
Oreoracle said:
For those who feel that liberalism is sinful or evil, I have a question:

How do you define “liberalism?” If my education is worth anything, I would say that liberalism is the political position that tradition should not be respected above the individuals who formulate it. This makes for more flexible and lenient ethical and legal systems, since the possibility for new understanding to be gained and for the old ways to be challenged is always permitted and expected. In this conception, liberalism basically amounts to the realization that we are not as efficient as we could be, and that it is worth the risk to try and improve. Change is not our enemy. Obviously, we could get into more sophisticated discussions about the many different liberal ethical systems, but liberalism doesn’t seem to have any prevailing ethical system or religious stance, so to say that it necessarily disagrees with the Church is absurd. Liberalism itself is very broad, and cannot be labeled as many of the posters here attempt.
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Liberalism

Apposite of Conservatism, Supports an “American Style “of Socialism and “Modern Progressivism”.

Liberals, in general, Short List -

Supports Higher Taxes and Bigger Government.

Apposed to Defense Spending.

Supports Increased Tax Payer, Government Funding of “Social” Welfare Programs.

Supports More Involvement by the U.N.

Supports More Government Regulations.

Supports Tax Payer, Government Funded Abortions in the U.S. and Abroad.

Apposed to Parental Notification /Child Abortions.

Supports Tax Payer, Government Funded Embryonic Stem Cell Research.

Supports Homosexual “Marriage”/ “Civil Unions” .

Supports “Gay Rights “.

Appose to a Constitutional Ban of “Same-Sex Marriage”.

Supports Tax Payer, Government Funded Same-Sex Healthcare and other “Partner" or “Survivor” Benefits.

Supports “Openly Gay Military”.

Supports Affirmation Action.

Supports 2nd Amendment Restrictions on Gun Ownership.

Supports Tax Payer, Government Funded, “Single Payer” Government ran - Universal Health Care.

Supports “Age-Appropriate Sex Education”.

Supports Repeal of the “George Bush Tax Cuts”.

Apposed to a Constitutional Ban on Flag Burning.

Supports Tax Payer, Government Funded National Endowment for the Arts.

Apposed to Ten Commandments, Nativity Scenes and/or any display of “Religion” on Public Property.

Apposed to anything having to do with God in Schools; Christmas Songs, Prayer, Religious Images.

Appose to Teach Creationism in School.

Supports Teaching Theory of Evolution.

I hope this helps. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
 
Here are Some Notable Liberal organizations –

· **Planned Parenthood **
· NARAL Pro-Choice, America
· ACORN
· Apollo Alliance
· **Tides Foundation **
· SEIU - Service Employees International Union
· Amnesty International
· NEA – National Endowment for the Arts
· **Welfare Rights Organizing Coalition **
· MoveOn.Org
· NOW
· Center for American Progress
· ACLU
· **HRC - **Human Rights Campaign, largest Gay civil rights organization
· NAACP
· Urban League
· GLAAD
· CodePink
· **Greenpeace **
 
Liberals, in general, support legalized Marijuana and other currently Illegal drugs. They are generally apposed to restrictions on Trial Lawyers, Claims and Civil Awards. They support a more “lenient” Criminal Justice System and “Criminal Rights”. Also, they are generally, not a “big fan” of the Police or the Military.
 
Thanks Jimmy B, but I was asking, if you recall, for a definition. A list of what liberals tend to support is not a definition of anything. In fact, we need the definition of liberalism to even know what a “liberal” is. Otherwise, we’re assuming that people who call themselves liberal or are called liberal by others are being accurately labeled. So I ask again: What is your definition of “liberalism?”

Or perhaps you think that what you provided was a definition. I would disagree. For example, “liberal” has been used to describe people throughout history who had never even thought of hospitalized abortions, marijuana, or the like. Why? Because they didn’t exist, or at least we not used frequently, at the time. We don’t typically define ideologies by specifics. If a liberal believes that marijuana should be legalized, then this sentiment was caused by a more fundamental belief, one that we attribute to liberalism. What are the fundamental beliefs that make up liberalism?
 
Oreoracle said:
Thanks Jimmy B, but I was asking, if you recall, for a definition. A list of what liberals tend to support is not a definition of anything. In fact, we need the definition of liberalism to even know what a “liberal” is. Otherwise, we’re assuming that people who call themselves liberal or are called liberal by others are being accurately labeled. So I ask again: What is your definition of “liberalism?”

Or perhaps you think that what you provided was a definition. I would disagree. For example, “liberal” has been used to describe people throughout history who had never even thought of hospitalized abortions, marijuana, or the like. Why? Because they didn’t exist, or at least we not used frequently, at the time. We don’t typically define ideologies by specifics. If a liberal believes that marijuana should be legalized, then this sentiment was caused by a more fundamental belief, one that we attribute to liberalism. What are the fundamental beliefs that make up liberalism?
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I know what you ask for. You don’t need the definition of liberalism. I see you live in the United States, so, I know that you know what the term “liberal” means in this country.

I don’t know who you’re kidding. It is these times of games that Americans are sick of and why approval ratings for congress is so low.

Liberalism is killing this country and destroying, decency and morality.

I cannot what for the 2010 and 2012 elections, there are going to be a lot of Democrats looking for a job…and I believe that some may even end up behind bars.

The veil of Liberalism and the Far Left has been lifted and more and more people are learning the definition of "liberalism”, “progressivism” and “socialism” and they don’t like any of it…

Most Americans reject socialism and that’s where the Democratic Party is going. Watch Glenn Beck, Bill O’Rielly and others on the FNC, the Fox News Channel and you’ll get the definition of “liberalism”.

Have a nice day. 🙂
 
depends on the issue

Abortion=yes
Homosexuality=yes
Contraception=yes
socialism=yes
Euthanasia =yes

Immigration=no
capital punishment=no
providing food for poor=no

eradicating poverty by eradicating the poor = yes
liberation theology = yes
dissenting from infallible doctrine or dogma = obviously yes
 
Napromedstudent said:
depends on the issue

Abortion=yes
Homosexuality=yes
Contraception=yes
socialism=yes
Euthanasia =yes

Immigration=no
capital punishment=no
providing food for poor=no

eradicating poverty by eradicating the poor = yes
liberation theology = yes
dissenting from infallible doctrine or dogma = obviously yes
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Care to elaborate on why socialism is a sin?

I don’t see anything in the Bible to support that idea.
 
constantseeker said:
Care to elaborate on why socialism is a sin?

I don’t see anything in the Bible to support that idea.
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Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm
Function: noun
Date: 1837
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Socialism* is a system where a single individual or small group of individuals are in a position or positions of authority who make decisions in the name of the collective group. Regardless of the picture painted of socialism by its proponents, it ultimately removes group decision making in favor of the choices of one “all-important” individual or an all-important, small group of individuals…*
Socialismisa stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay.
**
Socialism* is governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, a system of society or group living in which there is little or no private property and a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state**. ***
**
*W**hat happens when the state or an individual, or small groups of individuals in charge, are evil or corrupt? What happens if those in charge, for instance, decide to outlaw a particular religion or religion in general? *
**
*Socialism is based on ****Marxism, ****which is a particular political philosophy, economic and sociological worldview based upon a materialist interpretation of history, a Marxist analysis of capitalism, a theory of social change, and an **atheist ***view of human liberation derived from the work of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels.
**
Are you a fan of Karl Marx and socialism? How do you feel about communism and where is “communism” found in the Bible? Then again, there have been communist societies where Bibles and religion were banned.
**
*Most Americans reject socialism and communism, as I do. *
 
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