Is Liberalism A Sin?

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streetcar:
If we want to go to the extremes, then extreme conservatism is just as sinful as extreme liberalism (ex. people like Hitler and Mao).
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Sorry but if you take the time too look you will see that they are very liberal, especially if you use the proper definition of liberalism.
 
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Trelow:
Sorry but if you take the time too look you will see that they are very liberal, especially if you use the proper definition of liberalism.
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Maybe Michael Savage would be extreme conservatism. He states quite seriously on his radio program that people who go on welfare should lose their right to vote and that we should abort the babies of mothers on welfare. I simply can’t believe that this type of conservatism would be supported by the Church.:mad:
 
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goofyjim:
Maybe Michael Savage would be extreme conservatism. He states quite seriously on his radio program that people who go on welfare should lose their right to vote and that we should abort the babies of mothers on welfare. I simply can’t believe that this type of conservatism would be supported by the Church.:mad:
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Abortion is a liberal position, so no the Church would not support such a liberal position but since Michael Savage does not support abortion, I suspect that your statement may not correspond to reality.
Now, Mr. Gottle of Geer,
You seem to be making issues more complicated than they really are. You know good and well what everyone is talking about when they refer to liberalism and we are talking about modern liberalism. The idea that the state is the provider of man and not God. The idea that religion has no place in government. The idea that abortion is ok, as well as Euthenasia, contraception, clonning, homosexual behavior, wealth redistribution by force, secularism. The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth, the support of secular humanism, government supported atheism, etc… These things all constitute modern liberalism and they are gravely sinful. As for theological liberalism, you know very well that we are refering to the modernism that has crept into the Church. Ideas like those that say that Christ was not God, there was no virgin birth, the resurrection is a symbol, the scriptures are mythological, The magesterium is not infallible, Catholics are not bound in obedience to the pope and the bishops, etc. All such ideas are alos gravely sinful. Since this is what constitutes modern liberalism, then modern liberalism is sinful. As for your example about Hitler, you must understand that Hitler was a liberal. Here is why. Just like modern liberals he was very pagan and anti-Christian. Just like modern liberals he was a socialist who employed wealth redistribution. Just like modern liberals he ignored his citizens right to bear arms. Just like modern liberal, he ignored the democratic process and assumed absolute power like our modern day supreme court has. Just like modern liberals he attempted to wipe out and dehumanize an entire group of people. With Hitler it was the Jews. With modern liberals it is unborn babies. Just like many of the far left modern liberals, he was a vegitarian becasue he didn’t want to “hurt animals”. You see, Hitler would have fit in very well in the modern liberal green party. The problem with modern liberal political philosophy is that it says that man can create a perfect and utopian society without the aid of God but through government control. Modern conservatism says we will only create a society of peace if it is a society of Justice and accountability that rest on Natural Law that was established by God.
 
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Topher:
Abortion is a liberal position, so no the Church would not support such a liberal position but since Michael Savage does not support abortion, I suspect that your statement may not correspond to reality.
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Then Mr. Savage may not be in reality himself. I have heard him make these statements on his nationally syndicated radio program. Are you insinuating I am making it up? If he is not serious I wish he would say so.:banghead:
 
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goofyjim:
Then Mr. Savage may not be in reality himself. I have heard him make these statements on his nationally syndicated radio program. Are you insinuating I am making it up? If he is not serious I wish he would say so.:banghead:
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I am suggesting no such thing. What I am suggesting is that you may be mistaken or may have misunderstood him. That being said, I could also be wrong and I am willing to accept that possibility.
 
If liberalism means objecting to Church teachings in any way shape or form, then it is a sin in my opinion.
 
IS LIBERALISM A SIN [/QUOTE said:
Depends:
  1. Theological liberalism: It is erroneous; it may or may not be sinful, depending on the state of mind.
  2. Lifestyle liberalism: generally sinful.
  3. Economic liberalism: Not sinful; on the contrary, it is in line with scripture and the Fathers.
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jco2004:
Depends:
  1. Theological liberalism: It is erroneous; it may or may not be sinful, depending on the state of mind.
  2. Lifestyle liberalism: generally sinful.
  3. Economic liberalism: Not sinful; on the contrary, it is in line with scripture and the Fathers.
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Your post rather goes to show there is no one answer to the question, because the word does not have single meaning which is unchanged in all circumstances. Which means that “yes” cannot always be the appropriate answer. Thanks 🙂​

 
Pope Benedict XVI’s homily either right before or right after his election (sorry, I forget):

“How many winds of doctrine have we known in recent decades, how many ideological currents, how many ways of thinking. The small boat of the thought of many Christians has often been tossed about by these waves - flung from one extreme to another: from Marxism to liberalism, even to libertinism; from collectivism to radical individualism; from atheism to a vague religious mysticism; from agnosticism to syncretism and so forth. Every day new sects spring up, and what St. Paul says about human deception and the trickery that strives to entice people into error (cf. Eph 4: 14) comes true. Today, having a clear faith based on the Creed of the Church is often labeled as fundamentalism. Whereas relativism, that is, letting oneself be “tossed here and there, carried about by every wind of doctrine”, seems the only attitude that can cope with modern times. We are building a dictatorship of relativism that does not recognize anything as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of one’s own ego and desires.”

“The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality (aka liberals) in times of moral crisis.” -Dante Alighieri

Moral relativism is simultaneously the foundation and Achilles’ heel of liberalism.

Liberalism is without a doubt sinful. :mad:
 
“But many there are who follow in the footsteps of Lucifer, and adopt as their own his rebellious cry, I will not serve; and consequently substitute for true liberty what is sheer and most foolish license. Such, for instance, are the men belonging to that widely spread and powerful organization, who, usurping the name of liberty, style themselves liberals.” (Libertas Praestantissimum, n.14)

“But because thou art lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth.” Revelation 3:16

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” –G.K. Chesterton

“…be zealous…” Revelation 3:19

“Do not conform yourselves to this age but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and pleasing and perfect.” Romans 12:2

“Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought.” -Pope John Paul II

“…freedom is not simply about enjoying life in total autonomy, but rather about living by the measure of truth and goodness, so that we ourselves can become true and good.” -Pope Benedict XVI

“Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it.” -Pope St. Felix III

“Truth has always bothered people and is never comfortable.” -Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
 
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JSmitty2005:
Moral relativism is simultaneously the foundation and Achilles’ heel of liberalism.
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Liberals suffer from moral relativism while Protestants suffer from doctrinal relativism. Liberal Catholics suffer from both. It is actually the most primitive of all sins, and, in fact, the Original Sin. Lucifer tempted Adam & Eve, saying: “For God doth know that in what day soever you shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened: and you shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil.” (Genesis 3:5) We, however, do not have total freedom. Even Christ said, “Because I came down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him that sent me.” (John 6:38) We must do the will of God. Liberals hate this. They want total autonomy. Seeking to separate themselves from the Will of God cannot please Him and is a sin.
 
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jco2004:
Depends:
  1. Theological liberalism: It is erroneous; it may or may not be sinful, depending on the state of mind.
  2. Lifestyle liberalism: generally sinful.
  3. Economic liberalism: Not sinful; on the contrary, it is in line with scripture and the Fathers.
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Wrong. Economic liberalism is aslo sinful. Scripture and the Fathers do support Charity but charity done by the individual not forced by the state. State enforced wealth redistribution is unjust and is truly a violation of the commandment: thou shalt not steel. Rather, the Christian faith supports voluntary charity.
 
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LatinCat:
Rather, the Christian faith supports voluntary charity.
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Exactly. It’s not really charity at all if the state is requiring it.
 
It frightens and demoralizes me to think see such a large number of respondents who think that liberalism by itself is a sin.

what sort of world is this? 😦

It is even more disheartening when such, supposedly very Christian, activities as helping the poor are considered the evil by-product of a “liberal” government.

I found this article fairly interersting
link
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LatinCat:
Wrong. Economic liberalism is aslo sinful. Scripture and the Fathers do support Charity but charity done by the individual not forced by the state. State enforced wealth redistribution is unjust and is truly a violation of the commandment: thou shalt not steel. Rather, the Christian faith supports voluntary charity.
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Stealing comes in many forms. Both an overreaching government delving deep into your pocket and a citizen who wants to enjoy the benefits of a society without ponying up his fair share are examples.

But since “the State” in theory represents the will of the majority why would it be wrong for the majority to want to be charitable? Wouldn’t that be expected in a “Christian” nation. Don’t you think it is a good policy to at least attempt to do to the least of these? Don’t you think a government should try to lead by example?

Since poverty is linked to a variety of social/civil ills wouldn’t it be simple basic good governance to deal with it?
Since poverty tend to clump geographically as do natural disasters, wouldn’t an “everyman for himself” approach to charity result in an abundance of giving in one place and scarcity in another?

How does a “liberal” government mandated redistribution of income compare to the redistribution of wealth as practiced say by a conservative Ancient Regime?
 
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steveandersen:
It frightens and demoralizes me to think see such a large number of respondents who think that liberalism by itself is a sin.

what sort of world is this? 😦
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Refer to post #108. It doesn’t sound like the pope is very fond of liberalism, so why should we be? :confused:
 
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JSmitty2005:
Refer to post #108. It doesn’t sound like the pope is very fond of liberalism, so why should we be? :confused:
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because he threw out a list of terms without definitions
 
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steveandersen:
because he threw out a list of terms without definitions
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When the Pope or Church speaks they use the language of the Church. To find the meaning look back at how the Church has used the term in the past.

An excercise for all - How has the Church used the phrase “full and active participation” in the past? The answer will surprise you.
 
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buffalo:
When the Pope or Church speaks they use the language of the Church. To find the meaning look back at how the Church has used the term in the past.

An excercise for all - How has the Church used the phrase “full and active participation” in the past? The answer will surprise you.
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I don’t know how the Church has used this phrase in the past. Care to enlighten me? 😉

Also, Pope Pius IX didn’t really speak very highly of liberalism in his Syllabus of Errors.

papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm
 
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