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Sean.McKenzie
Guest
I feel that the ongoing abuse in the Sacred Liturgy, can in many be tied to the organization Life Teen. What do you feel about this topic?
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Meggie
Guest
STOP this before people start bickering
Lifeteen willingly complied with GIRM and worked with Rome. What more can you ask!!! For crying out loud!!! Most churches are better off because LifeTeen leaders have stood up to priests to make the GIRM changes in the LifeTeen Mass, least they loose the LifeTeen certification.
Everything has problems, but having 5,000 scattered youth groups each with their own problems isn’t going to help anything, either…united Lifeteen can do SO much more for youth, pooling resources…etc…
Lifeteen willingly complied with GIRM and worked with Rome. What more can you ask!!! For crying out loud!!! Most churches are better off because LifeTeen leaders have stood up to priests to make the GIRM changes in the LifeTeen Mass, least they loose the LifeTeen certification.
Everything has problems, but having 5,000 scattered youth groups each with their own problems isn’t going to help anything, either…united Lifeteen can do SO much more for youth, pooling resources…etc…
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MeaCulpa
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Only after they were given instructions to comply and do away with much they had been doing that was not in complicance.
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MeaCulpa
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For a price $$$$ that is.
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Church_Militant
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The things I’ve seen in my parish from Lifeteen have been fine and in line with the faith. Nothing in our parish is outta whack.
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rcn
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Meggie, you lack perspective.
Lifeteen had been doing things “its way” for almost 20 years. The bishop of Lifeteen’s home diocese (Phoenix) allowed Lifeteen to do whatever it wanted. (The founder of Lifeteen was on the bishop’s staff.) I believe they received many complaints over the years but were allowed to simply ignore them.
After a new, more orthodox bishop was installed… all of a sudden Lifeteen claimed to have “received direction from Rome”. That may be what they say, but I don’t believe it. I think the new bishop looked at all the complaints and said “enough is enough” and cracked down hard on Lifeteen. And he got backing from Rome to prove that he was serious.
No, Lifeteen did not “work with Rome” at all. They were given orders to FINALLY comply with the GIRM, no questions asked.
But the bigger question is “why weren’t they complying from the beginning?”
Lifeteen had been doing things “its way” for almost 20 years. The bishop of Lifeteen’s home diocese (Phoenix) allowed Lifeteen to do whatever it wanted. (The founder of Lifeteen was on the bishop’s staff.) I believe they received many complaints over the years but were allowed to simply ignore them.
After a new, more orthodox bishop was installed… all of a sudden Lifeteen claimed to have “received direction from Rome”. That may be what they say, but I don’t believe it. I think the new bishop looked at all the complaints and said “enough is enough” and cracked down hard on Lifeteen. And he got backing from Rome to prove that he was serious.
No, Lifeteen did not “work with Rome” at all. They were given orders to FINALLY comply with the GIRM, no questions asked.
But the bigger question is “why weren’t they complying from the beginning?”
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Sean.McKenzie
Guest
How is it acceptable to have teens completely encircling the blessed altar, and putting arms around eachother and begin swaying?
For the Most part if we truly BELIEVED whar was happening at that altar, we would be on our faces worshiping and adoring, but we also do have guidlines and instruction.
When we bgin to create a seperate mass, we only start to encourage diversity and disunity.
I have been to many a “youth masses” and was appalled at what i saw and heard. during the Great Amen, i was shocked to find that hardly anyone was focused on the eucharist half of the congregation was looking at the ban, they are not a choir they do not form as a choir.
Instead of elevating the kids to the point of the mass, they lower the mass to the teens level, this is completely wrong . The Church is universal, unchangeable!!
Moreover, “the mass never ends it must be lived!” this doesn’t seem very universal to me, changing the comission given to the laity, is unacceptable.
I am only 19 years old, a “teen” according to certain standards. and yet even i can see this. Once the youth become turned off by the changes especially the ones i had listed, there is a problem.
For the Most part if we truly BELIEVED whar was happening at that altar, we would be on our faces worshiping and adoring, but we also do have guidlines and instruction.
When we bgin to create a seperate mass, we only start to encourage diversity and disunity.
I have been to many a “youth masses” and was appalled at what i saw and heard. during the Great Amen, i was shocked to find that hardly anyone was focused on the eucharist half of the congregation was looking at the ban, they are not a choir they do not form as a choir.
Instead of elevating the kids to the point of the mass, they lower the mass to the teens level, this is completely wrong . The Church is universal, unchangeable!!
Moreover, “the mass never ends it must be lived!” this doesn’t seem very universal to me, changing the comission given to the laity, is unacceptable.
I am only 19 years old, a “teen” according to certain standards. and yet even i can see this. Once the youth become turned off by the changes especially the ones i had listed, there is a problem.
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Meggie
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Well excuse me for not having perspective…
…you try being 19, alone in a family that hurts you…going to church every week but not knowng anything about being Catholic…
…you try finishing three years of highschool of one and getting into college honors program, you try going to Adoration for the first time, you try going to confession for the first time in years, you try that!!! Then I want to see YOU stand up to your Catholic parents when they tell you not to go to Daily Mass, you stand up to them when say Catholics don’t read the Bible…
You try to be any one of my friends…one who converted from athiesm, teens growing in identity after their parents divorces…
…then go online and look at tens and maybe hundreds of people shooting down the one thing that made a difference in your life.
I only went for a year and I became a different person…
…and I recently went to a wonderful retreat of pooled resourses…Thirsty for Living Water Retreat
Every youth group costs money…and the small ammount (compativly) that the lifeteen program can train adults with little background to be leaders…and to teach them…
…you try being 19, alone in a family that hurts you…going to church every week but not knowng anything about being Catholic…
…you try finishing three years of highschool of one and getting into college honors program, you try going to Adoration for the first time, you try going to confession for the first time in years, you try that!!! Then I want to see YOU stand up to your Catholic parents when they tell you not to go to Daily Mass, you stand up to them when say Catholics don’t read the Bible…
You try to be any one of my friends…one who converted from athiesm, teens growing in identity after their parents divorces…
…then go online and look at tens and maybe hundreds of people shooting down the one thing that made a difference in your life.
I only went for a year and I became a different person…
…and I recently went to a wonderful retreat of pooled resourses…Thirsty for Living Water Retreat
Every youth group costs money…and the small ammount (compativly) that the lifeteen program can train adults with little background to be leaders…and to teach them…
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Prometheum_x
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I don’t know very much about the Lifeteen organization as a whole, but when it comes to implementation, it entirely depends on the individual parish.
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whosebob
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JMJ + OBT
As a self-described “traditional Catholic,” but also one who has volunteered as an adult leader with a LifeTeen youth group for the past three years, I feel it is important to make some distinctions:
LifeTeen is not a top-down or even a bottom-up organized movement in the Church. There is a national LifeTeen headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia where LifeTeen planning kits, T-Shirts, etc. are produced for dissemination to LifteTeen-subscriber parishes. But how those materials are implemented can vary a great deal. There are some nationally organized LifeTeen events and programs, e.g. the LifeTeen summer camp called “Cove Crest” in northern Georgia, but primarily LifeTeen is a format, “curriculam,” program, “style,” guidelines etc. that are developed on a national level but then left entirely to local implementation.
Yes, if a parish goes way out-of-bounds in this implementation, or becomes “LifeTeen in name only,” then LifeTeen-the-organization reserves the right to terminate that parish’s affiliation, subscription, and rights to use the LifeTeen logo. But any such “enforcement” is far from rigid and rarely takes place (so far as I’m aware).
At my parish, for example, we do not implement a “LifeTeen liturgy” per se. We have, though, found great value and help in the planning materials and guides that are provided through LifeTeen – together with the Catechism and the Holy Bible (which said materials draw on heavily), we have used them to develop and build a high school youth ministry that is stronger than anything my parish has had in the previous decade.
On another “liturgical note,” it is interesting to observe that LifeTeen headquarters is in Atlanta, GA though LifeTeen was “founded” in Phoenix, AZ. Now, it was two years ago the the Archbishop of Atlanta banned the practice of teens gathering around the altar, and any LifeTeen parishes in Georgia that did so were expressly disobeying their bishop. The LifeTeen summer camp in northern Georgia complied fully and gladly. There is actually a heavily conservative, even traditional, thread that runs through the make-up of the national LifeTeen staff and organization.
In Phoenix, of course, they kept up the liturgical abuses until expressly requested to end them as has been detailed in previous posts. Why was that the case? . . . Who knows . . . in many new movements in the Church (even ones that can only loosely be described as “movements”) there are mixtures of mistakes and brilliant leadership. I think that is what was going on here.
Anyone desiring to research LifeTeen’s message and approach more deeply should visit and explore their excellent website:
LifeTeen: leading teens closer to Christ.
In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.
IC XC NIKA
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Keith_Strohm
Guest
So, instead of rejoicing that a ‘sinner’ has recognized the authority of the magisterium, submitted in obedience, and returned to the fold, we gloat because the intervention was necessary in the first place?
I frequent numerous boards where my ‘orthodox’ and ‘conservative’ brothers and sisters consistently slam the LifeTeen program. Did the liturgical approach of LT need some correction? Yes. Yet even when they asked for guidance from Rome and complied with their directives, folks here (and elsewhere) insist that something deeper and more disciplinary happened, seemingly implying that it happened because Rome finally discovered what a schismatic group it had in its midst. It’s these kind of ‘discussions’ that make the devil smile.
I’m active in the LT program in my parish, but I have also been critical of some of the liturgical approaches it took in the past. I have seen the power and love of Christ transform and renew the hearts of teens. LifeTeen certainly isn’t THE youth ministry program anointed by God to draw each and every teen to Him, but I think that to anyone who takes a deep look at LT when it is ‘incarnated’ faithfully in a parish, its positive fruits will be readily apparent.
Keith
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Pisio
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Life Teen’s side of the story can be read at www.lifeteen.com
There is a press release section and a question and answer regarding the issue of the GIRM.
About three years ago I was in a Life Teen training conference, and I recal Msgr. Fushek being asked about how the new GIRM would affect Life Teen and what they were doing about it. At that time Life Teen was already working to make sure they would be operating in complete compliance with what the Vatican wanted.
Also, at every Life Teen Conference I have been to over the last 4 years (at least 4) the Life Teen staff emphasized the need to be obedient to the local Bishop (kinda hard if you have no Bishop).
In my experience with the organization I can honestly say I believe they are Orhodox. You can not get much more Catholic than emphasizing the Mass, the Pope, Mary, Eucharistic Adoration, the Rosary and Obedience as a form of discipleship.
As another poster has stated, when implemented within the bounds laid out by Life Teen Inc., it can be a very powerful format for converting the hearts of young people.
I can honestly say my involvement with Life Teen has saved my life and my faith, and I was 22 when I first got involved.
In Christ,
Pisio
There is a press release section and a question and answer regarding the issue of the GIRM.
About three years ago I was in a Life Teen training conference, and I recal Msgr. Fushek being asked about how the new GIRM would affect Life Teen and what they were doing about it. At that time Life Teen was already working to make sure they would be operating in complete compliance with what the Vatican wanted.
Also, at every Life Teen Conference I have been to over the last 4 years (at least 4) the Life Teen staff emphasized the need to be obedient to the local Bishop (kinda hard if you have no Bishop).
In my experience with the organization I can honestly say I believe they are Orhodox. You can not get much more Catholic than emphasizing the Mass, the Pope, Mary, Eucharistic Adoration, the Rosary and Obedience as a form of discipleship.
As another poster has stated, when implemented within the bounds laid out by Life Teen Inc., it can be a very powerful format for converting the hearts of young people.
I can honestly say my involvement with Life Teen has saved my life and my faith, and I was 22 when I first got involved.
In Christ,
Pisio
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Sean.McKenzie
Guest
Keith Strohm:
I have been a Core member as well, “Drawing teens closer to Christ” this is their motto, but alot of the times they use the wrong means of drawing teens in. I have witnessed it, and have been a part of it. So i do not speak from ignorence or from sheer anger, i am angry that Life Teen seems to put on this facade that, they can change things for the teens, they can make it “digestible” when in all actuality they are watering down many things. I have been to Life Teen programs in which frequently the leaders pray over a certain teen in the form of tongues, as if it is a gift given to just anyone, this is apalling i do not doubt, that the Holy Spirit does cause thiose gifts to occur, but it being sported around like a pair oif shoes, only a select few actually have that ability. As well as being slain in the spirit during adoration. By doing skits on around the Sacred Altar, or sometimes using the Priests Homily as a skit. This is outrageous. We are allowed to be angry, but not allowed to sin. I am angry at injustices that occur within this organization.
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Sean.McKenzie
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I don’t have to try being 19, i am 19, every one has a story. I have been expelled out of two schools, One Catholic, the other, public school. I have had the police at my house almost evryother day at one point in my life. I have been publicaly humiliated at shool, threatened, and physically beat up by one of my male teachers. I have had it pretty rough. Until a great Priest entered our Parish and helped turn me back to me Catholic faith, which saved my life. I have been an active servant, in the Life Teen program for five years straight, i have given talks to me piers about a number of things. I am not putting myself on a pedestal but i am giving my credibility.
My Brother actually started up the youth group at my Parish, and it made a drastic change for the worse by implementing Life Teen guidines and liscences. :nope:
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Prometheum_x
Guest
According to the Lifeteen.com website, there were 842 parishes participating in the Lifeteen program in some capacity. Without minimizing or denying what you have seen, I wonder whether you have experienced what could be considered a representative sample of those parishes. How many different parishes with Lifeteen programs have you seen? 10% is 84 different parishes. If you had visited 84 different parishes which were located in different dioceses, then I at least would consider that to be a good sample.
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pnewton
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As someone who really disliked the one LifeTeen mass I attended, I found it to be almost in compliance with the GIRM. Only the creed was wacky and that has been addressed. While the youth went down toward the altar, they stayed off the altar area. Reverence was not a problem as it was obvious in the faces of the youth.
Probably one reason why there is so much divergent opinion is that these Masses reflect the orthodoxy or lack thereof on the part of the priest.
Probably one reason why there is so much divergent opinion is that these Masses reflect the orthodoxy or lack thereof on the part of the priest.
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MaggieOH
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Meggie I agree with you. We have Lifeteen in my Parish. We brought it to Australia. Our teen attendance at Mass is very high.
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Sean.McKenzie
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See people get this idea that Life Teen brings the ratings or attendants of youth ini mass up, but don’t even give the recognition to Holy Spirit drawing them in. It is the Holy Spirit!!! I ti s Like when Mary Baker Eddy, foundress of Christian Science, is seen as a miracles worker, and yet she gives no recognition of that to Christ or the Holy Spirit, as if they had the power, not God. We shouldn’t lower the mass to the teens, we should rather raise them up to Sacredness and Holiness of the mess, not condensing it for their conveinience.
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Tallow
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My church has had a Life Teen program for several years. We have a new priest and he seems good, but the last one, who was there for several years and was VERY popular, said extremely raucous masses and delivered boisterous, slang-filled sermons, even at adult masses. Most objectionable, however, is that I never once attended one of his Sunday masses where he said the Creed. That is not optional at Sunday masses, and I always wondered if he didn’t say it because he didn’t subscribe to it.
I also used to wonder if he was saying valid masses and I avoided him whenever possible.
I also used to wonder if he was saying valid masses and I avoided him whenever possible.
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Church_Militant
Guest
Sean,
This is not right. The fact is that every tool that is used of the Holy Spirit is of God, and all one has to do is obey christ and examine the fruits. In our church there is much that is good and fruitful in that young people are growing well in the Lord. Since LifeTeen is being well used by the Holy Spirit in many parishes that are not “watering down” the faith means that perhasps the people in your parish did some of it wrong and is something that you should take up with them, not dump on this whole forum and badmouth the whole program.
Are you perhaps one of those radical traditionalist guys? I’m not though I grew up in the church before Vatican 2 and all the changes. To me, the church is still (as always) in the midst of a spiritual battle and some battles we win and some we lose, but the gates of hell will not prevail against her…not at all, at all.
I guess in the end I have to say that I feel that we should always be part of the answer and not the problem, and one of the most effective ways I’ve found to fix anything spiritual is by serious prayer and fasting and also by Eucharistic adoration. remeber guys…the definition od Charity is “Love in action”.
Pax vobiscum,
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