Is looking at a stripper a sin separate from lusting after her?

[fakename]

If one were at a stripclub would watching the strippers be a separate sin or would the only sin be the internal sin of lust?

One can say that one’s conscience objects to both so there must be separate sins however, one can also say that simply seeing a stripper is not morally good or bad while looking with lust is morally bad, and yet such an object is not separate from the sin “looking with lust”. Hence there is only one sin and not two.

Any help?

 

[dshix]

If one were at a stripclub would watching the strippers be a separate sin or would the only sin be the internal sin of lust?

One can say that one’s conscience objects to both so there must be separate sins however, one can also say that simply seeing a stripper is not morally good or bad while looking with lust is morally bad, and yet such an object is not separate from the sin “looking with lust”. Hence there is only one sin and not two.

Any help?

I suppose you could make the case that you are committing more than one sin. Not only are you lusting, you are participating in another person’s sin, that is, the sin of the woman in exposing herself in such a way.

 

[truetofaith]

It’s difficult to look at a stripper and not lust after her unless you’re just walking through the room or you are gay!

 

[edwest2]

If one were at a stripclub would watching the strippers be a separate sin or would the only sin be the internal sin of lust?

One can say that one’s conscience objects to both so there must be separate sins however, one can also say that simply seeing a stripper is not morally good or bad while looking with lust is morally bad, and yet such an object is not separate from the sin “looking with lust”. Hence there is only one sin and not two.

Any help?

Going to the strip club with the intention of seeing strippers is problem number one. Let’s not split hairs. Catholics should not go into strip clubs. Seeing the stripper is not neutral. She is there for one purpose only: sexual arousal.

Hope this helps,
Ed

 

[clem456]

If you are walking down the street and a stripper happens to pass by and your eyes happen to fall on her , then you are not sinning.

Oh wait, you said you were at a strip club. Assuming you were not kidnapped and taken there by force and made to watch, sounds like you made a conscious choice.
What did you expect to see, Mother Teresa and the Sisters of Charity?

See Ed’s post above for some common sense and honesty.

 

[red85]

I agree with the above. Strippers are there to elicit sexual arousal. What she is doing is simply wrong. Walking into her joint to watch her would be like condoning her behavior. Don’t do it.

 

[meltzerboy]

If one were at a stripclub would watching the strippers be a separate sin or would the only sin be the internal sin of lust?

One can say that one’s conscience objects to both so there must be separate sins however, one can also say that simply seeing a stripper is not morally good or bad while looking with lust is morally bad, and yet such an object is not separate from the sin “looking with lust”. Hence there is only one sin and not two.

Any help?

I think patronizing the club while knowing what kind of behavior occurs would be sinful in itself. Now if one happened to be gay and just there with a straight friend, I don’t know how that would be judged. In general though, it’s best to avoid these places whether or not you are straight or married, particularly if you believe lust is contrary to the word of G-d.

 

[clem456]

I think patronizing the club while knowing what kind of behavior occurs would be sinful in itself. Now if one happened to be gay and just there with a straight friend, I don’t know how that would be judged. In general though, it’s best to avoid these places whether or not you are straight or married, particularly if you believe lust is contrary to the word of G-d.

I’m having a difficult time figuring how attending a strip club is NOT sinful.
Seeing as how the purpose of the club is to objectify and demean women for the purpose of inciting lust and all it’s evil effects.

 

[meltzerboy]

I’m having a difficult time figuring how attending a strip club is NOT sinful.
Seeing as how the purpose of the club is to objectify and demean women for the purpose of inciting lust and all it’s evil effects.

In Judaism, lust is viewed as part of the so-called evil inclination; however, that inclination, which is natural and normal, and consists of other selfish drives such as aggression and hunger, is necessary for life just as surely as the good inclination is. The mastery and control of our evil inclination is the key, rather than its eradication, which would be contrary to our very nature and life. The problem with lust, as well as other selfish drives, according to Jewish teaching, is its tendency to exclude a loving and caring relationship. It must be incorporated into love within marriage in order not to be sinful. Jesus spoke of committing adultery by means of lusting in one’s heart. If Jesus meant by this that lust need not be eliminated but rather controlled, Judaism concurs; however, the latter does not equate this lustful feeling with the act of adultery.

 

[TimothyH]

I’m having a difficult time figuring how attending a strip club is NOT sinful.
Seeing as how the purpose of the club is to objectify and demean women for the purpose of inciting lust and all it’s evil effects.

That’s right.

It is degrading to the woman who strips whether she realizes it or not. It objectifies women. It contributes money to an industry which incites lust, degrades women, and contributes to the hyper sexualized culture of instant sexual gratification and the contraception mentality.

Anyone who thinks going to a strip club is good in any way ought to ask themselves what would happen, how they would feel if they walked in the door and saw their own daughter dancing naked.

-Tim-

 

[po18guy]

If one were at a stripclub…

Near occasion of sin. Time to review the Act of Contrition.

 

[clem456]

In Judaism, lust is viewed as part of the so-called evil inclination; however, that inclination, which is natural and normal, and consists of other selfish drives such as aggression and hunger, is necessary for life just as surely as the good inclination is. The mastery and control of our evil inclination is the key, rather than its eradication, which would be contrary to our very nature and life. The problem with lust, as well as other selfish drives, according to Jewish teaching, is its tendency to exclude a loving and caring relationship. It must be incorporated into love within marriage in order not to be sinful. Jesus spoke of committing adultery by means of lusting in one’s heart. If Jesus meant by this that lust need not be eliminated but rather controlled, Judaism concurs; however, the latter does not equate this lustful feeling with the act of adultery.

I believe we might call this outlook “Manichean”, in that good and evil are two necessary or equal powers vying for supremacy (prolly a bad word here).

We believe the drive for sex is good, give to us by God to be used in a spousal relationship, and that the word lust denotes an abuse and perversion of that drive. The adultery is not just the specific act of going out on one’s spouse, it is in abusing the God-given sex drive for one’s own purpose, which then cheats the spouse of the full gift of love.

 

[cheezey]

***If ***one were at a stripclub would watching the strippers be a separate sin or would the only sin be the internal sin of lust?

One can say that one’s conscience objects to both so there must be separate sins however, one can also say that simply seeing a stripper is not morally good or bad while looking with lust is morally bad, and yet such an object is not separate from the sin “looking with lust”. Hence there is only one sin and not two.

Any help?

If you are walking down the street and a stripper happens to pass by and your eyes happen to fall on her , then you are not sinning.

Oh wait, you said you were at a strip club. Assuming you were not kidnapped and taken there by force and made to watch, sounds like you made a conscious choice.
What did you expect to see, Mother Teresa and the Sisters of Charity?

See Ed’s post above for some common sense and honesty.

:thumbsup:

But maybe this really was a theoretical question…

 

[meltzerboy]

I believe we might call this outlook “Manichean”, in that good and evil are two necessary or equal powers vying for supremacy (prolly a bad word here).

We believe the drive for sex is good, give to us by God to be used in a spousal relationship, and that the word lust denotes an abuse and perversion of that drive. The adultery is not just the specific act of going out on one’s spouse, it is in abusing the God-given sex drive for one’s own purpose, which then cheats the spouse of the full gift of love.

Almost, but not quite. The “evil” inclination is not regarded as really evil unless it is abused by means of a lack of control. Just as hunger and aggression per se are not evil, they can be abused, and so can lust. IOW, all these drives can lead to evil behaviors. And lustful drives, as well as other selfish drives, can lead to evil when we choose not to exercise self-discipline over them. That is the Jewish teaching, which I think is somewhat different from Christian belief, which views lust per se as evil; or am I wrong about that? The self-mastery over our selfish drives is often difficult but nonetheless achievable by means of prayer, bible study, and unselfish acts.

 

[mdgspencer]

It is sinful to be willingly sexually aroused.
Just looking is not sinful. If a dog or a cat looked at her, it would not be a sin. But after all, this is about a man looking at her. How often would a man simply look at her dispassionately?

 

[LINVS]

That’s a good question. I don’t know how you could watch a stripper and NOT lust after her. Anyway, I’ve always found it hard to even look at immodestly dressed women because I’m afraid of falling into impure thoughts. I’m still at an age where these women like to flirt with me and get really offended when avoid them.

 

[clem456]

Almost, but not quite. The “evil” inclination is not regarded as really evil unless it is abused by means of a lack of control. Just as hunger and aggression per se are not evil, they can be abused, and so can lust. IOW, all these drives can lead to evil behaviors. And lustful drives, as well as other selfish drives, can lead to evil when we choose not to exercise self-discipline over them. That is the Jewish teaching, which I think is somewhat different from Christian belief, which views lust per se as evil; or am I wrong about that? The self-mastery over our selfish drives is often difficult but nonetheless achievable by means of prayer, bible study, and unselfish acts.

I think we have merely a difference in definitions. It seems you are calling the sex drive lust from the start, unitl there is no self discipline. Whereas in Christianity lust denotes a perverted sex drive.

 

[clem456]

It is sinful to be willingly sexually aroused.
Just looking is not sinful. If a dog or a cat looked at her, it would not be a sin. But after all, this is about a man looking at her. How often would a man simply look at her dispassionately?

As is the case with almost all sin, it is not just a personal problem. Going to the strip club is a participation in a structure of sin. The CCC deals with this explicitly.

V. THE PROLIFERATION OF SIN

1865 Sin creates a proclivity to sin; it engenders vice by repetition of the same acts. This results in perverse inclinations which cloud conscience and corrupt the concrete judgment of good and evil. Thus sin tends to reproduce itself and reinforce itself, but it cannot destroy the moral sense at its root.

1866 Vices can be classified according to the virtues they oppose, or also be linked to the capital sins which Christian experience has distinguished, following St. John Cassian and St. Gregory the Great. They are called “capital” because they engender other sins, other vices.138 They are pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth or acedia.

1867 The catechetical tradition also recalls that there are “sins that cry to heaven”: the blood of Abel,139 the sin of the Sodomites,140 the cry of the people oppressed in Egypt,141 the cry of the foreigner, the widow, and the orphan,142 injustice to the wage earner.143

**1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them: **
- by participating directly and voluntarily in them;

• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;

• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;

• by protecting evil-doers.

**1869 Thus sin makes men accomplices of one another and causes concupiscence, violence, and injustice to reign among them. Sins give rise to social situations and institutions that are contrary to the divine goodness. “Structures of sin” are the expression and effect of personal sins. They lead their victims to do evil in their turn. In an analogous sense, they constitute a "social sin."144 **

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Attending a strip club would fit nicely here, would it not?