Is Love really the greatest? (1 Corinthians 13:13)

[John7]

Well, Jim, I suppose it is God’s love that saves me, but my faith that makes it possible to receive that love that saves me. Perhaps whether Love or Faith is greatest depends on what the word greatest means.

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

(1 Corinthians 13:13)

Let’s say Paul meant this:

greatest = the one that is most likely to result in receiving God’s love and eternal life

Would you say it is your love for God, or your faith in God’s love, that contributes most to your getting to heaven?

IMO
its not what we do that that’s as important as what Jesus did at cross,
John 15:13 “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.”

His greatest act was an act of love, which ultimately gets us into heaven. Without his work at cross we can’t get to heaven.

 

[JRKH]

In other words, do you think this

**a. **And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

(1 Corinthians 13:13)

means this?

**b. **And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the [one that is most likely to result in receiving God’s love and eternal life] is love.

(1 Corinthians 13:13)

I honestly think that you are really overthinking this.

You should quit looking at just this one phrase and instead look at it in the context of Paul’s Letter.
Look at how Paul takes each of the other virtues and compares them to Love. They are empty without Love. A loveless Faith is no faith at all, Loveless preaching is just noise. Loveless Hope is little more than selfish depseration. Love is the core.

Love is the Virtue that both nourishes and grows the other virtues. It is also the root of all truly Christian works.

Peace
James

 

[Angel_Bradford]

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

(1 Corinthians 13:13)
Hi! I’ve been wondering something: Saint Paul tells you and I that love is the greatest, but is he right? You see, I’m not so sure he is. I’m hoping someone can explain why love is greater and what it is greater than. Any thoughts?

Take a moment and look at the begining of Chapter 13 and you may find your answer:

If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.

And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.

If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.

 

[spockrates]

I believe (I do not know) love is absolutely the greatest!

I believe (I do not know) the Holy Bible is really clear on this!

I have given the most basic Biblical principles that I know.

I rest my case.
…

Jim:

By believe, I gather you think it might be true but do not trust in, or even know the truth about what you think is true. Wouldn’t you rather be more certain than you now are? Wouldn’t you rather believe in the sense of definitions (1) or (2) than to just think it’s true, as in the sense of definition (3)?

be·lieve
(b-lv)
v. be·lieved, be·liev·ing, be·lieves
v.tr.

1. To accept as true or real: Do you believe the news stories?
2. To credit with veracity; trust: I believe in you.
3. To expect or suppose; think: I believe they will arrive shortly.

 

[JRKH]

Jim:

By believe, I gather you think it might be true but do not trust in, or even know the truth about what you think is true. Wouldn’t you rather be more certain than you now are? Wouldn’t you rather believe in the sense of definitions (1) or (2) than to just think it’s true, as in the sense of definition (3)?

be·lieve
(b-lv)
v. be·lieved, be·liev·ing, be·lieves
v.tr.

1. To accept as true or real: Do you believe the news stories?
2. To credit with veracity; trust: I believe in you.
3. To expect or suppose; think: I believe they will arrive shortly.

Now I KNOW you’re overthinking this…

Peace
James

 

[spockrates]

I am saying nothing at all… It is Christ Himself who has said it.

In your OP you question Paul’s assertion that Love is the greatest of the virtues. I have merely pointed you to the Lord’s own words which confirm what Paul wrote.

Yes, I understand that the greatest commandment is to love. I was just asking why you think this is the greatest commandment, if you know why. If you don’t know why, don’t sweat it.

As to how the various features interact, you have to recognize that faith, hope, love, grace, works etc. are all interwoven. I put the following together some time ago, perhaps it will help here.

Belief, Grace, Faith, Love and Works are interwoven pieces. They cannot be separated. They can only be placed in “order”.

1. 
   *]We begin with Grace. Grace is the supernatural foundation. The “seed” that God plants in every soul that enables it to find it’s way back to God.
   *]Then comes Belief. We must believe in something before anything else. If we do not believe in God, then the seed of Grace will not grow.
   *]After Belief comes Faith. The difference between belief and faith, is simply this: I may believe in the existence of banks, but do I have faith in them. Faith gets into trusting and believing in the promises of God and believing in Jesus Christ and salvation through doing the will of the Father. Learning and developing our faith is nurturing and allowing the seed of God’s grace to grow in us.
   *]Then Comes Love. Jesus places Love as the Greatest and center of all of the Law and prophets. What we Love and covet is how we know “where our heart is”. If we Love God and wish to do His will, then we will Love our neighbor unselfishly and wish to act in ways that are pleasing to our love - who is God Himself.
   *]Then comes Works. If we believe properly, that is we have a trusting belief, then works will necessarily follow. If works do not follow then there is a problem with one of the above.
   
   …

1. 
   Thanks, James. I’m assuming that when Saint Paul wrote this,
   
   And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
   
   (1 Corinthians 13:13)
   
   he was speaking of your love and mine, not God’s love. This seems probable, since hope, and perhaps even faith, are not attributes of God the Father. So, according to your chain of causation, God ends with (1) and you or I begin with (2) and continue through to (5). Thus, even though (1) is the greatest that God can do for us, (4) is the greatest that we can do in response to what He does for us. This is what I think you are saying (and forgive me if I, in my ignorance, still misunderstand). That is, the greatest step in this process is (4), and therefore, Paul would say that (4) is what makes love the greatest that you or I could ever do. Do I get it, yet, or am I still not quite there?

 

[spockrates]

Now I KNOW you’re overthinking this…

Peace
James

Don’t be too sure! Surely (3) does not a (2) make?



In all seriousness, isn’t (2) what faith truly is? Isn’t faith complete trust in God and in the truth He has revealed to us through His Church and through the Holy Spirit? Isn’t this what our Lord was getting at when He said this?

“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God ; trust also in me.”

(John 14:1)

 

[JRKH]

Yes, I understand that the greatest commandment is to love. I was just asking why you think this is the greatest commandment, if you know why. If you don’t know why, don’t sweat it.

I think it is the greatest because My Lord Told me so…

Frankly this is not something that can be rationally explained. At least not by me.
God Loves us. He desires that we Love Him back.
Every Law that has been given is based upon this Love.
Love is how to correctly interpret Law.
Love is both cause and effect.

Thanks, James. I’m assuming that when Saint Paul wrote this,

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

(1 Corinthians 13:13)

he was speaking of your love and mine, not God’s love. This seems probable, since hope, and perhaps even faith, are not attributes of God the Father. So, according to your chain of causation, God ends with (1) and you or I begin with (2) and continue through to (5).

What I think you are saying (and forgive me for being so slow to understand you) is that the greatest step in this process is (4). Hence, Paul would say that (4) is what makes love the greatest. Do I get it, yet, or am I still not quite there?

I dont’ think that you are correct here.
God’s Love infuses us. We return that Love to God. We share that Love with others.
Love is what God gives to us.
Love is what God desires from us.
BUT
Since we cannot Love God as He should be loved (even with his help), we show God that we Love Him by Loving our fellow amn.

Peace
James

 

[spockrates]

IMO
its not what we do that that’s as important as what Jesus did at cross,
John 15:13 “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.”

His greatest act was an act of love, which ultimately gets us into heaven. Without his work at cross we can’t get to heaven.

True, J7!



But in the next breath your Lord and mine says this:

“You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. This is my command: Love each other.”

(John 15:14-17)

He says two important things, here:

1. 
   *]Love one another
   *]Understand what I have made known to you
   
   I think that obeying (1) well is impossible without (2), don’t you? Ergo, if we want to (1) we must first (2), and (2) is a necessary requirement and cause of (1). Do you agree?

 

[spockrates]

I think it is the greatest because My Lord Told me so…

Frankly this is not something that can be rationally explained. At least not by me.
God Loves us. He desires that we Love Him back.
Every Law that has been given is based upon this Love.
Love is how to correctly interpret Law.
Love is both cause and effect.

I dont’ think that you are correct here.
God’s Love infuses us. We return that Love to God. We share that Love with others.
Love is what God gives to us.
Love is what God desires from us.
BUT
Since we cannot Love God as He should be loved (even with his help), we show God that we Love Him by Loving our fellow man.

Peace
James

James:

I do appreciate your answering my questions. I understand that you know you should love, but I suppose I’m wondering how you know how to love if love is something that cannot be rationally explained! Moreover, how do we know we have the kind of faith that pleases God (because, as I quoted earlier, it is impossible to please God without faith) if faith itself cannot be rationally explained? It seems, then, that if there is no rational explanation of love and faith, then knowing which one is the greatest is the least of our problems. Knowing whether we are really exercising the love and faith God desires, as you suggest, is impossible to explain rationally. So whether we are pleasing Him is impossible to know! However, if it is possible to understand love and faith, then it is possible to know what love and faith God desires, and it is possible to love Him and have faith in Him in a way that pleases Him. Is this understandable to you?

Maybe an example will help us to figure this out:

Let’s say you know a woman–maybe a friend, or a sister, or some other loved one. Let’s say she loves a man and tells you she is carrying his child, even though she is not married. She tells you that the man is not ready to marry her, so out of love for him she is willing to wait. He is not ready for her to have a child, either, so out of love for him she is going to have an abortion. Now, you try to tell her it is a sin, but she tells you that God loves her and she loves Him and God would want her to love the man she loves by terminating this pregnancy for him.

Would you say she is loving the man and God the way God wants her to love? Would you say she has faith in (or trusts) God’s will for her correctly? If she is not loving and exercising faith the way God wants, what would you say to convince her of this?

 

[Jim_Baur]

Two things:

Firust, when I say believe, I mean believe/faith. One cannot prove faith! We hear it and accept it.

Second, when St. Paul says the produce (fruit) of the Holy Spirit, Love, joy, peace, he means that God produces them in us. God makes us love. His love saves us.

One can use produce, as a noun, or produce, as a verb. He I think the Greek is karpos and I think it is a noun, but I am not certain. I am sure you can find it in two seconds.

The big thing is: does one believe in love or in the works of the flesh? Galatians chapter five takes a good look at this.

Love produces joy. Joy produces peace. Peace produces patience. Patience produce kindness. Kindness produces generosity. Et cetera…

When Mother Teresa helped the poor, she felt and responded to God producing kindess and generosity in her. I often feel God producing those beings in me.

God Bless,

Jim Baur

 

[JRKH]

James:

I do appreciate your answering my questions. I understand that you know you should love, but I suppose I’m wondering how you know how to love if love is something that cannot be rationally explained! Moreover, how do we know we have the kind of faith that pleases God (because, as I quoted earlier, it is impossible to please God without faith) if faith itself cannot be rationally explained? It seems, then, that if there is no rational explanation of love and faith, then knowing which one is the greatest is the least of our problems. Knowing whether we are really exercising the love and faith God desires, as you suggest, is impossible to explain rationally. So whether we are pleasing Him is impossible to know! However, if it is possible to understand love and faith, then it is possible to know what love and faith God desires, and it is possible to love Him and have faith in Him in a way that pleases Him. Is this understandable to you?

This is why it is not good to try and rationalize everything. Love of God - Love of neighbor - Faith etc. are not purely rational things.
You seek too much to “Know” when what you should be doing is praying and resting in God’s Love and grace so that He may reveal these things to you. Then perhap, once God has given you greater understanding, you can help explain these things to others because has given you the gift of questioning and writing.

Maybe an example will help us to figure this out:

Let’s say you know a woman–maybe a friend, or a sister, or some other loved one. Let’s say she loves a man and tells you she is carrying his child, even though she is not married. She tells you that the man is not ready to marry her, so out of love for him she is willing to wait. He is not ready for her to have a child, either, so out of love for him she is going to have an abortion. Now, you try to tell her it is a sin, but she tells you that God loves her and she loves Him and God would want her to love the man she loves by terminating this pregnancy for him.

Would you say she is loving the man and God the way God wants her to love? Would you say she has faith in (or trusts) God’s will for her correctly? If she is not loving and exercising faith the way God wants, what would you say to convince her of this?

She already has sinned by fornicating with the man, now she is willing to sin further by committing murder for the same man. Does it sound to you like this woman Loves God and wishes not to offend Him? Does it sound like she Loves her Fellow man for the Love of God, if she is willing to Kill one person in order to please another person?

Peace
James

 

[zach_dunn]

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

(1 Corinthians 13:13)

Hi! I’ve been wondering something: Saint Paul tells you and I that love is the greatest, but is he right? You see, I’m not so sure he is. I’m hoping someone can explain why love is greater and what it is greater than. Any thoughts?

This verse is pretty straightforward. It says, “But the greatest of these [faith, hope and love] is love.” This is an Apostle speaking as well as being written in the Bible. It is as clear as it possibly can be. As others have pointed out, God is Love [1 Jn 4:8], that’s what God is. He is not faith, He is not hope, He is love. It is evident from the Bible that we are saved by God’s undeserving love, the greatest example of this is Christ’s passion. You said earlier something to the effect of, “but it seems that God requires faith to receive His love/grace.” The world had not yet believed in Christ when He redeemed us, His sacrifice on the cross was completely gratuitous, with nothing whatsoever depending on us. The cross was God’s choice, not man’s willingness to accept or believe that choice.

 

[spockrates]

Take a moment and look at the begining of Chapter 13 and you may find your answer:

If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.

And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.

If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.

… and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

(1 Corinthians 13:2)

Yes, angel, I see what you mean. Faith without love is useless. But what about love without faith?

Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

(1 John 3:18)

“Let us … love … in truth,” writes John. So, in the example I just gave to James, the woman who has an abortion out of love for God is not loving God in truth, is she? Her desire to love God might be sincere, but her knowledge of how to love Him is sincerely wrong. Faith, or putting one’s complete trust in obeying what one knows is true, is essential to loving God, it seems. And I suppose John would say, and Paul would agree, that

… if I have a love that is willing to die for God and for others, but have not faith, I am nothing.

Don’t you think? Or would you say that loving God, without believing anything Jesus or the Catholic Church says is enough?

 

[JRKH]

… and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

(1 Corinthians 13:2)

Yes, angel, I see what you mean. Faith without love is useless. But what about love without faith?

(Snip)

I would refer you back to my listing of the Heirarchy of beliefs for this one.
In order for the Love to be truly Sanctifying it needs to be seen in the light and Faith of God and His promises.
If Belief and Faith are not present then the Love shown is not a sanctifying one.
Without belief and faith - that is in rejecting these things, one rejects salvation and Love then simply becomes a “worthless work”.

Peace
James

 

[spockrates]

I would refer you back to my listing of the Heirarchy of beliefs for this one.
In order for the Love to be truly Sanctifying it needs to be seen in the light and Faith of God and His promises.
If Belief and Faith are not present then the Love shown is not a sanctifying one.
Without belief and faith - that is in rejecting these things, one rejects salvation and Love then simply becomes a “worthless work”.

Peace
James

Yes, James, I believe you are correct. For, as mentioned earlier, Saint Paul tells us this:

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God … .

(Ephesians 2:8)

Without Faith, being saved (whatever that implies) is impossible. Faith, then, is truly great, indeed! If she were a lady, she would be an object of every Catholic man’s desire, I suppose. But what about love? Is she just as desirable for being saved?

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/sciencenotfiction/files/2009/03/battlestar-women.jpg

Faith and Love​

 

[Jim_Baur]

For it is by grace you have been saved…

Grace includes love.

Also, as others have pointed out, Paul says faith without love is nothing.

One either believes this or not.

Jesus, Paul, James, Peter, Jeremiah, Isaiah, and Moses have already answered the questions, one either believes or rejects their teachings.

 

[spockrates]

First, when I say believe, I mean believe/faith. One cannot prove faith! We hear it and accept it.
…

Yes, but what I’m asking is this: How you accept it? By (1) or (2) or (3)?

be·lieve
(b-lv)
v. be·lieved, be·liev·ing, be·lieves
v.tr.

1. To accept as true or real: Do you believe the news stories?
2. To credit with veracity; trust: I believe in you.
3. To expect or suppose; think: I believe they will arrive shortly.

Knowing your answer to this question will help me know what you mean when you speak of the trustworthy lady Faith.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:...AAAAAAACQo/-0oxwaUPtiI/s400/kateesackhoff.jpg

Faith

 

[spockrates]

For it is by grace you have been saved…

… through Faith.

(Ephesians 2:8)

Grace includes love.

And, as you just said, grace is useless to me if I have no Faith.

Also, as others have pointed out, Paul says faith without love is nothing.

And John and Jesus point out that without Faith, I will be nothing after death–well, nothing I’d want to continue to be, anyway.

One either believes this or not.

Jesus, Paul, James, Peter, Jeremiah, Isaiah, and Moses have already answered the questions, one either believes or rejects their teachings.

And rejecting their teaching is rejecting Faith; not believing is not embracing Faith. Without her, I have no hope of surviving death–at least not of surviving in a way for which I should hope. Faith, then, is of the greatest importance to me. Without her, I die–or at least I exist forever wishing I were dead. God’s gift of grace is my salvation–His love expressed to me. But unless I embrace His gift of Faith, His grace cannot embrace me. You see?

Or does your faith tell you that Faith is not necessary for surviving the grave?

 

[spockrates]

That being said, Jim, I agree with you. Do you agree with me? Are not both Faith and Love necessary to our survival?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Faith and Love