Is Lucifer really evil?

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Yes he is evil, because he chose to be evil.

Because Angels are spirit only, not body and spirit like humans, their personalities are timeless, they can’t change.

Humans, while still body and spirit can evolve and/or change. An “evil person” can convert and repent can become a good or holy person. Just like a good person can go bad (bad people where usually good once when children).

But when humans die, we become spirit only, like angels. Which is why both Heaven and Hell are forever.

We humans have our lifetime to chose to follow God or reject him.

Angels on the other hand were shown God’s plan for humanity and were given a choice to support God’s plan for humanity or reject it. The 2/3s who supported God’s plan are in Heaven, the 1/3 who did not are not in Heaven.

Tim Staples defines this wonderfully.

So in summary, the devil is evil because he chose to be.

I hope this helps
 
Nanotwerp said:
Rabbinical Judaism seems to have a view that makes more sense to me: That Lucifer isn’t evil, but is ordered by God to tempt humans. This makes more sense to me, because it would suit the need for the Serpent (AKA ‘Satan’) to be in the Garden with Adam and Eve. Are these beliefs heretical?
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This is not a question a Catholic should be asking – he should know without a doubt that Satan is evil: that he is the father of lies and a murderer from the beginning, just as the Scriptures says he is. He should be reading pious Catholic books and his Bible and should have nothing to do with the religious beliefs of false religions. Rabbinical Judaism is NOT what Judaism was in the OT. Rabbinical Judaism utterly rejects Jesus Christ as Messiah, the Judaism of the OT anticipated Jesus Christ as Messiah. God bless you.
 
phil19034 said:
Yes he is evil, because he chose to be evil.

Because Angels are spirit only, not body and spirit like humans, their personalities are timeless, they can’t change.
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Thats not entirely true, we dont know how long it was between Satans creation and the time he fell, as well as the other 1/3, so its obvious, when they were created, they were regular, loving angels, devoted to God, BUT, eventually, the bible tells us they DID change, or at least had a change of heart/mind…IDK, maybe its true they cannot change, but this would be more proof Satan and the other fallen angels are following Gods plan exactly the way God wants them to, and were always this way.
 
mikekle said:
Thats not entirely true, we dont know how long it was between Satans creation and the time he fell, as well as the other 1/3, so its obvious, when they were created, they were regular, loving angels, devoted to God, BUT, eventually, the bible tells us they DID change, or at least had a change of heart/mind…IDK, maybe its true they cannot change, but this would be more proof Satan and the other fallen angels are following Gods plan exactly the way God wants them to, and were always this way.
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God did not plan for some angels to be evil. The angels, like us, were given free will and some chose to reject God.
 
mikekle said:
Thats not entirely true, we dont know how long it was between Satans creation and the time he fell, as well as the other 1/3, so its obvious, when they were created, they were regular, loving angels, devoted to God, BUT, eventually, the bible tells us they DID change, or at least had a change of heart/mind…IDK, maybe its true they cannot change, but this would be more proof Satan and the other fallen angels are following Gods plan exactly the way God wants them to, and were always this way.
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The time between the angel’s creation and their fall is non-existent.
Satan was a liar and a murderer from the beginning. He never changed.
If we apply time to spiritual concepts we come up with the wrong answers.
 
MtnDwellar said:
The time between the angel’s creation and their fall is non-existent.
Satan was a liar and a murderer from the beginning. He never changed.
If we apply time to spiritual concepts we come up with the wrong answers.
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That isn’t true. God created Lucifer, but Lucifer created Satan, in a way.
 
Nanotwerp said:
That isn’t true. God created Lucifer, but Lucifer created Satan, in a way.
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There is no logical connection between your statement and mine which you quoted, nevertheless, Lucifer never created anything - ever.
 
Bob_Crowley said:
I even heard our Archbishop say we can learn a lot from the Jewish Rabbis in regard to the Old Testament.
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I don’t know why any Catholic would make this statement. The Old Testament cannot be fully understood without also considering the New Testament.
 
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MtnDwellar said:
There is no logical connection between your statement and mine which you quoted, nevertheless, Lucifer never created anything - ever.
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Oh, but it does. God wouldn’t create an evil angel out of the blue just for it to be evil.
 
Nanotwerp said:
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Oh, but it does. God wouldn’t create an evil angel out of the blue just for it to be evil.
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I never said God created an evil angel. Satan is evil by choice.

I suspect you are trying to apply a time scale to spiritual events. It doesn’t work. Including time in a dimension where time doesn’t exist will lead to false conclusions. It is not like God created the angels and then they rebelled.
 
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MtnDwellar said:
I never said God created an evil angel. Satan is evil by choice.

I suspect you are trying to apply a time scale to spiritual events. It doesn’t work. Including time in a dimension where time doesn’t exist will lead to false conclusions. It is not like God created the angels and then they rebelled.
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Are you stating they were created rebels?
 
Nanotwerp said:
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Are you stating they were created rebels?
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No
I think I have been clear. God created all good angels. Some rebelled by choice.
You might like to think about it as if everything happens in one instant and then continues eternally.
 
MtnDwellar said:
I never said God created an evil angel. Satan is evil by choice.

I suspect you are trying to apply a time scale to spiritual events. It doesn’t work. Including time in a dimension where time doesn’t exist will lead to false conclusions. It is not like God created the angels and then they rebelled.
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Well, if it wasnt this way, then the only other option is God created them EVIL, that is, if they were evil from the very beginning, but the bible tells us EVERYTHING that God made was GOOD, so at some point, Lucifer/ Satan, WAS GOOD…anything else would be a major contradiction.
 
mikekle said:
Well, if it wasnt this way, then the only other option is God created them EVIL, that is, if they were evil from the very beginning, but the bible tells us EVERYTHING that God made was GOOD, so at some point, Lucifer/ Satan, WAS GOOD…anything else would be a major contradiction.
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There is no contradiction. Satan was created good and was also evil from the beginning. The apparent contradiction is only because you are applying time to the events.

You want to think that a being cannot be good and evil at the same time. You are correct, What you are leaving out is that time does not exist in heaven or hell.
 
MtnDwellar said:
There is no contradiction. Satan was created good and was also evil from the beginning. The apparent contradiction is only because you are applying time to the events.

You want to think that a being cannot be good and evil at the same time. You are correct, What you are leaving out is that time does not exist in heaven or hell.
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Satan, like all angels, was created good. No angel was created evil. Satan was NOT evil from the beginning. You are wrong.
 
thistle said:
Satan, like all angels, was created good. No angel was created evil. Satan was NOT evil from the beginning. You are wrong.
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Satan was created good and is the father of lies and was a murderer from the beginning. Check the bible.

What am I wrong about?
 
MtnDwellar said:
Satan was created good and is the father of lies and was a murderer from the beginning. Check the bible.

What am I wrong about?
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Satan was not a murderer from the beginning (when he was created). He was created good and LATER chose to reject God and became evil.
God created the angels before he created the universe and man.
 
MtnDwellar said:
Satan was created good and is the father of lies and was a murderer from the beginning. Check the bible.

What am I wrong about?
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As I said, but didn’t make clear, God created Lucifer good. He had the choice to be evil, which he chose. When he became Satan, Lucifer essentially ‘created’ himself into Satan, and not God. Do you truly believe God would create an entity already destined to have eternal punishment from the start?
 
thistle said:
Satan was not a murderer from the beginning (when he was created). He was created good and LATER chose to reject God and became evil.
God created the angels before he created the universe and man.
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You are correct about everything except “LATER chose to reject God.”

Later implies that time passed between when Satan was created and when he rejected God. Time does not exist in heaven.

That’s how he can be created good and also be evil from the beginning.
 
Nanotwerp said:
As I said, but didn’t make clear, God created Lucifer good. He had the choice to be evil, which he chose. When he became Satan, Lucifer essentially ‘created’ himself into Satan, and not God. Do you truly believe God would create an entity already destined to have eternal punishment from the start?
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Why do you ask?
The devil had free will. He was not destined for eternal punishment.
 
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