Is Lucifer really evil?

[ready]

Here is a site where some saints are named who had the gift of bilocation…being in two places at one time. For those interested…
miraclesofthesaints.com/2010/09/bilocation-of-st-padre-pio.html

So it seems if they could do it, then why not the pure spirits of angels and devils?

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

I just read in an article about Padre Pio and bilocation that according to St. Thomas Aquinas angels can not bilocate. Here is the relevant passage from the article:

“St. Thomas tells us that even the angels cannot be present in two places at the same time. Angels are present in a place by acting upon the matter in that place, but while they can act on a very large body of matter at one moment (thereby being present in a very large place), they cannot act on two discontinuous bodies of matter at the same moment. Thus, not even an angel can be present in the two cities of San Giovanni Rotondo and Loreto at the same moment. (cf. ST I, q.52, a.2)” newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com/2011/09/some-thoughts-on-bilocation.html

God bless you.

 

[thistle]

Lucifer only hated God. Sinners hate everyone. Besides, old Lucy was never redeemed. He would never be guilty of despising mercy or Jesus’ blood.

Is that supposed to be a joke?
So if I commit a mortal sin you are saying that I hate everyone (my wife, my children etc etc)??

 

[fred_conty]

I just read in an article about Padre Pio and bilocation that according to St. Thomas Aquinas angels can not bilocate. Here is the relevant passage from the article:

“St. Thomas tells us that even the angels cannot be present in two places at the same time. Angels are present in a place by acting upon the matter in that place, but while they can act on a very large body of matter at one moment (thereby being present in a very large place), they cannot act on two discontinuous bodies of matter at the same moment. Thus, not even an angel can be present in the two cities of San Giovanni Rotondo and Loreto at the same moment. (cf. ST I, q.52, a.2)” newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com/2011/09/some-thoughts-on-bilocation.html

God bless you.

I appreciate another side of this. But the author of the article also has this to say.

“The person whose body appears present can also be present, in a sense, through his soul; for God can either unite a disembodied soul to a likeness of the soul’s former body, as St. Jerome suggests
“Bio-location properly understood can occur; and God has allowed it to occur for sufficiently important reasons.”
On a more personal note
I would add that I have great love for St. Pio and especially for this mystery of bilocation. As a seminarian I was personally inspired to believe in the Holy House of Loreto when I learned that Padre Pio had a habit of bilocating to the little chapel to bring his petitions to our heavenly Mother.

The technicalities of this may be explained in various ways…but to me, it still happens in one way of the other. And so too for the angels as well who have no bodies. Even tho the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary maybe without a body, he still was present in some way and was there present to Mary, whether he had a real body, or only had the image of a body, or Mary had a phantasm of Gabriel, the angel was there, as the bible says that the angel was “sent”.

The author doesn’t seem to make any distinctions here, " I learned that Padre Pio had a habit of bilocating to the little chapel to bring his petitions to our heavenly Mother."

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

 

[ready]

I appreciate another side of this. But the author of the article also has this to say.

The technicalities of this may be explained in various ways…but to me, it still happens in one way of the other. And so too for the angels as well who have no bodies. Even tho the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary maybe without a body, he still was present in some way and was there present to Mary, whether he had a real body, or only had the image of a body, or Mary had a phantasm of Gabriel, the angel was there, as the bible says that the angel was “sent”.

The author doesn’t seem to make any distinctions here, " I learned that Padre Pio had a habit of bilocating to the little chapel to bring his petitions to our heavenly Mother."

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

Whenever the angels were in Blessed Mary’s presence they were in bodily form, says Ven. Mary of Agreda in The Mystical City of God. All I know is that St. Thomas teaches that angels cannot be present in two places at the same time, which means that they do not bilocate – the quote that you present in an attempt to refute this teaching pertains to humans, not angels, no? And this quote that you have presented is from the author of the article and not from Aquinas, no? God bless you.

 

[abdulmasih]

Is that supposed to be a joke?
So if I commit a mortal sin you are saying that I hate everyone (my wife, my children etc etc)??

So you’re saying you’re a sinner. VERY funny.

 

[thistle]

So you’re saying you’re a sinner. VERY funny.

ALL of us are sinners.

 

[Brendan_64]

Is that supposed to be a joke?
So if I commit a mortal sin you are saying that I hate everyone (my wife, my children etc etc)??

If we commit sin we harm the entire Church, the entire Body of Christ. When we sin, we hurt each other, we hurt the entire Body of Christ. That is a reason why we confess to a priest, by doing so we are admitting our sins to the Church. Early Christians used to stand up and confess their sins to the entire congregation. Sin is not just a personal matter between a man and God.

 

[thistle]

If we commit sin we harm the entire Church, the entire Body of Christ. When we sin, we hurt each other, we hurt the entire Body of Christ. That is a reason why we confess to a priest, by doing so we are admitting our sins to the Church. Early Christians used to stand up and confess their sins to the entire congregation. Sin is not just a personal matter between a man and God.

If I commit a mortal sin it does NOT mean I hate my wife and children!

 

[Brendan_64]

If I commit a mortal sin it does NOT mean I hate my wife and children!

Not necessarily, but it does mean that you have hurt them by sinning. When we sin we are not acting out of love for others, we are diminishing our love for the entire Body of Christ, which presumably includes your wife and children.

 

[abdulmasih]

ALL of us are sinners.

Then why did Jesus say be better than sinners?

 

[thistle]

Then why did Jesus say be better than sinners?

Oh let me think!! That’s a hard one!!! Obviously, because he wants us to stop sinning!!

Everybody is a sinner.

 

[ready]

Dear Abdulmasih,

When you pray the Hail Mary don’t you call yourself a sinner? The Scriptures says that if we say that we have no sin then we are a liar.

In Jesu et Maria,
ready

 

[thistle]

Not necessarily, but it does mean that you have hurt them by sinning. When we sin we are not acting out of love for others, we are diminishing our love for the entire Body of Christ, which presumably includes your wife and children.

When I have sinned my family have not known and nor I did treat them differently and nor have I hurt them as you suggest.
I hurt God and myself, not anybody else.

 

[ready]

Satan hates God and every person that God loves. If Satan did not hate us too, then he would not be trying his hardest to see to it that we all spend our eternity in utter misery in hell. Satan really is the most evil sinner there is because he hates God and all of God’s children and tries to put everybody in hell with him, using the very worst means to accomplish this. God bless you.

 

[Brendan_64]

When I have sinned my family have not known and nor I did treat them differently and nor have I hurt them as you suggest.
I hurt God and myself, not anybody else.

Not true. When we sin we hurt the entire Body of Christ on Earth. The Body of Christ on Earth is made up of all members of the Church (and indeed all Christians). Our sins are not simply between God and Ourselves. If one part of the Body separates itself further from God through sin, then the entire Body is hurt and wounded. That is what our Church teaches.

CCC 953 Communion in charity. In the sanctorum communio, “None of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself.” “If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.” “Charity does not insist on its own way.” In this solidarity with all men, living or dead, which is founded on the communion of saints, the least of our acts done in charity redounds to the profit of all. Every sin harms this communion.

As Christians we are not simply individuals, we are a communion, and all sin affects that communion, all sin hurts every part of that communion.

 

[Brendan_64]

Everybody is a sinner.

Absolutely correct. There have only ever been two people who walked this Earth without sinning, Christ and his mother Mary.

That doesn’t mean we ought not to try to be free from sin, of course we should strive for this at all times, but we are weak and we stumble and fall.

 

[thistle]

Not true. When we sin we hurt the entire Body of Christ on Earth. The Body of Christ on Earth is made up of all members of the Church (and indeed all Christians). Our sins are not simply between God and Ourselves. If one part of the Body separates itself further from God through sin, then the entire Body is hurt and wounded. That is what our Church teaches.

CCC 953 Communion in charity. In the sanctorum communio, “None of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself.” “If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.” “Charity does not insist on its own way.” In this solidarity with all men, living or dead, which is founded on the communion of saints, the least of our acts done in charity redounds to the profit of all. Every sin harms this communion.

As Christians we are not simply individuals, we are a communion, and all sin affects that communion, all sin hurts every part of that communion.

However, that’s a far cry from the poster claiming that sinners HATE everyone. That would mean everyone in the Catholic Church hated everyone else!!
My reading of his posts is that he seems to think he is not a sinner.

 

[mikekle]

Satan hates God and every person that God loves. If Satan did not hate us too, then he would not be trying his hardest to see to it that we all spend our eternity in utter misery in hell. Satan really is the most evil sinner there is because he hates God and all of God’s children and tries to put everybody in hell with him, using the very worst means to accomplish this. God bless you.

Ive always believed Satans ‘beef’ is really with God (if there is a beef at all though…that is another discussion though), in the end, Satan wanted to sit on the throne, HE wanted Gods job/position, he wants to be worshiped by as many humans as possible.

Although the more I think about it, the more I start to believe Satan is just doing exactly what God intended him to be doing, he is the alternative, without him, our free will would not really be free will, as there would be no other choice. This is something we dont understand though, we are only given a small part of the puzzle, and Im betting if we knew the real truth, it would all make perfect sense to us.

Think about it, if Satan had never fallen, never taken 1/3 of the angels with them, there would NO demons, NO hell, since hell was created specifically for them when they fell, what would our world look like without any fallen angels? would there even be any temptation, if so, Id bet it would not be that strong. There would have not been any serpent in Eden to tempt Adam and Eve, There would be NO one whispering in our ear to go ahead and sin, go ahead and lust, go ahead and worship money, power, etc. There would only be good…therefore no real choice, no free will.

 

[ready]

Ive always believed Satans ‘beef’ is really with God (if there is a beef at all though…that is another discussion though), in the end, Satan wanted to sit on the throne, HE wanted Gods job/position, he wants to be worshiped by as many humans as possible.

Although the more I think about it, the more I start to believe Satan is just doing exactly what God intended him to be doing, he is the alternative, without him, our free will would not really be free will, as there would be no other choice. This is something we dont understand though, we are only given a small part of the puzzle, and Im betting if we knew the real truth, it would all make perfect sense to us.

Think about it, if Satan had never fallen, never taken 1/3 of the angels with them, there would NO demons, NO hell, since hell was created specifically for them when they fell, what would our world look like without any fallen angels? would there even be any temptation, if so, Id bet it would not be that strong. There would have not been any serpent in Eden to tempt Adam and Eve, There would be NO one whispering in our ear to go ahead and sin, go ahead and lust, go ahead and worship money, power, etc. There would only be good…therefore no real choice, no free will.

Even though Lucifer refused to serve God in the beginning of time, he (Satan) does serve God’s designs, as do all of God’s creatures, whether they know it or not, or like to or not. Satan’s temptations give us all opportunity to be tried and to choose God over temptation to sin, opportunity to be purified, opportunity to gain merit, opportunity to atone for our sins, opportunity to prove our love of God and faithfulness to Him, etc…

You are right when you say that Satan’s “beef” is really with God. It is because Satan hates God so much that he wants to take all of God’s children from Him. Also, Satan resents that we, God’s children, will be filling up the places in heaven once occupied by him and his fellow bad angels … this must add to the fire of Satan’s fury and must make Satan hate and envy every single one of us, not just God.

Even if there were never a Satan (The Adversary) or any snake that embodied him to tempt Adam and Eve, Adam and Eve still would have free will – they still of their volition could choose to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, or to eat from any other tree for that matter; they could choose where to walk, what to speak, what to think, etc… Adam and Eve were made in perfect justice and were not the least bit disordered in their appetites and passions – and the world was like paradise – but could Adam and Eve, like Lucifer, choose not to serve God and choose to disobey Him by eating of the tree from which they were prohibited to eat without a Satan to tempt them? Yes. Satan was made in perfect justice, just like Adam and Eve, with nothing in him that was not good, and he was God’s highest and most beautiful angel. (Lucifer, Adam and Eve were created good.) If God’s highest and most beautiful angel could fall without anyone else to tempt him, so could Adam and Eve fall without another to tempt them. They could have prided themselves so much on being so favored by God that at one point they could have made the decision to be just like Him or above him, just like Lucifer did. It would be pride or envy that would tempt them, and they do not need the devil to tempt them to pride or envy, this temptation would come right from themselves, like it did for Lucifer. Think about it. Lucifer, Adam and Eve were made good by God, but through disobedience they could fall – and they each did fall through disobedience. Lucifer, who was made good and all, was tempted to disobedience by pride and envy within his own being, just like Adam and Eve could have gotten tempted to disobedience by pride and envy within their own selves.

God bless you.

 

[abdulmasih]

Although the more I think about it, the more I start to believe Satan is just doing exactly what God intended him to be doing, he is the alternative, without him, our free will would not really be free will, as there would be no other choice. This is something we dont understand though, we are only given a small part of the puzzle, and Im betting if we knew the real truth, it would all make perfect sense to us.

Satan was created good but he fell of his own free will. God is infinite, indescribable good. He cannot create or will evil for anyone.