A
abdulmasih
Guest
Relatively speaking, I’m actually right. The height of sin is satanism and satanists hate everyone.
- Status
A
abdulmasih
Guest
Also, you cannot commit MORTAL sin and still love your neighbor. Mortal sin separates one from God, and love of God and love of neighbor are inseparable.
T
thistle
Guest
That is simply not true. Everyone (including you, me and all in these forums) is a sinner. That does NOT mean they hate their spouses, children, siblings, parents.
That is a ridiculous thing to say.
R
ready
Guest
Dear Abdulmasih,
If you think that men are worse sinners than Satan then you are greatly deceived. He is given the name Adversary, the father of lies, a murderer from the beginning for a good reason. Some men may be extremely wicked like Satan, but how could anyone believe that the wickedness of men exceeds Satan’s wickedness? Satan hates God and all of God’s children because of this hatred. And hatred of God is the worst sin that there is, but not all sinners hate God. They show they do not truly love Him when they mortally sin, but this does not mean that they bear hatred of God. God bless you.
In Jesu et Maria,
ready
If you think that men are worse sinners than Satan then you are greatly deceived. He is given the name Adversary, the father of lies, a murderer from the beginning for a good reason. Some men may be extremely wicked like Satan, but how could anyone believe that the wickedness of men exceeds Satan’s wickedness? Satan hates God and all of God’s children because of this hatred. And hatred of God is the worst sin that there is, but not all sinners hate God. They show they do not truly love Him when they mortally sin, but this does not mean that they bear hatred of God. God bless you.
In Jesu et Maria,
ready
A
abdulmasih
Guest
Read the Revelations of Saint Bridget. In it Jesus says certain sinners are worse than the devil. I take offence at you saying that I am greatly deceived. Read John Bunyan. A devil tells him that atheists are worse sinners than ALL devils.
R
ready
Guest
I was unaware that Jesus said this to St. Bridget. Please forgive my offense to you. Satan is so evil that he has the name of “the Adversary,” “the father of lies” and “a murderer from the beginning”; I did not think that anyone else could be worse than this fallen angel according to this horrible description of him. God bless you.
F
friardchips
Guest
I am surprised that you gave up so easily at arguing the post suggesting people being more evil than evil himself having just come to it myself and am now in shock! For a suggestion to even come up in a thread that anyone could be more evil than Satan is positively ludicrous.
No one in their existence is more evil than Satan!
God has not granted pardon to Satan. We have confession to be forgiven. Lucifer chose his fate in one instance.
To suggest even momentarily that people are more evil is to state that people are unforgivable.
The only blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is malicious lies said with intent against God, and made public. But they are not worse than Satan because he was the one who confused these unfortunate people in the first place, and is the Father of lies (Jesus said this).
abdulmasih Please could you tell me some quotes from St. Bridget about people being worse than Satan? By worse, you mean more evil?
There were revelations which revealed that receiving Holy Communion was a very grevious and punishable sin if one hasn’t confessed a mortal sin beforehand but I would be surprised for one who was made a Saint to declare such a revelation as your post is suggesting that could have lead to people spending their lives worrying if they might be eternally damned already.
Anyone that reads this evil suggestion: I would reject it in a breath!
R
ready
Guest
Yes, it would be good if we could get an explanation of Jesus’ words to St. Bridget. That would clear up this matter. God bless you.
T
thistle
Guest
Neither St Bridget (private revelations) nor John Bunyan (who was not a Catholic) speak for the Church. What you are saying is not Church teaching. It is the Church you have to listen to.
R
ready
Guest
Dear Thistle,
I don’t care at all what John Bunyan says because he is not a Catholic saint. But, though St. Bridget can only offer us private revelation inferior to magisterial teaching, her private revelations are approved by the Church, which means that they do not contradict Church teaching. I know that private revelation is inferior to the teaching of the magisterium, but I believe all approved apparitions with a pious faith, and holy Church permits us to, and even encourages us to – approved apparitions do not contract Church teaching. Revelation from the Bible I believe with a different kind of faith, divine faith; but private revelation I believe with what the Church calls a “pious faith.” You can read about pious faith in a Catholic dictionary if you wish. God bless you.
A
abdulmasih
Guest
About bad priests:
“I chose them before all men, and therefore they should be as outstanding among others as a finger in the hand, but they are WORSE THAN THE DEVIL.”
About bad popes:
“You are worse than Lucifer. He envied only me and sinned only against me. But you are WORSE; you sin against me and try to get others to sin against me.”
Source: Revelations of Saint Bridget
“I chose them before all men, and therefore they should be as outstanding among others as a finger in the hand, but they are WORSE THAN THE DEVIL.”
About bad popes:
“You are worse than Lucifer. He envied only me and sinned only against me. But you are WORSE; you sin against me and try to get others to sin against me.”
Source: Revelations of Saint Bridget
T
thistle
Guest
I can say things which do not contradict Church teachings but it doesn’t mean all Catholics should pay attention to them.
Various “approved” private revelations contain errors, are sometimes interpreted wrongly/misunderstood by the person receiving them, are not always written down by the person receiving them, and they sometimes contradict “approved” revelations of other saints or blessed.
I do not put much store in them. The Church allows us to believe in the “approved” ones but does not require us to believe them for the aforementioned good reasons.
I am not suggesting that you or other people should not believe them. Some people get something out of them.
I get irritated by people like the other poster who seems to be more inclined to turn to private revelations and non-Catholics when he is not able to support his views by actual Church teachings.
F
friardchips
Guest
Dear ready,
Please could you find for yourself the exact quote from St. Bridget, taking responsibility for your acceptance to this post, by proving them?
I think various others would be interested to see them also. And if you succeed in finding a quote suggesting this then I will be taking this to my local priest.
The reason I say this is because the original poster’s quote seems irrational and I don’t believe that any Saint would be irrational. I hold them in high esteem. The quote about bad popes went like this: " But you are WORSE; you sin against me and try to get others to sin against me." Excuse me sir, ready, but Satan tries to entice us into sinning against Jesus all the time. So this quote seems irregular.
Please could you find yourself this quote about priests and popes and also post the link at which you found this?
R
ready
Guest
Yes, but all I am saying is that no approved private revelation contradicts Church teaching, the Church would not approve of the parts of a person’s private revelation that contradicted Church teaching, like the Church did for part of the private revelation of La Salette. God bless you.
F
friardchips
Guest
Yes, but the poster stuck up a quote with no link backing up that it is true! And neither have you! If the quote is true then the poster or yourself should prove it by sending us the link which was used as s source of this quote.
There are many websites out there with misquotes well away from regulated Church teaching, normally put on the web by people opposed to the Holy Roman Catholic Church or seek to devalue the Pope’s authority. So surely it is best to get to the heart of this considering this is meant to be a catholic forum and people come here to get solid advice.
No one is doubting that the Saints had real private revelations, but this one seems hard to understand and so I doubt the source from which it was taken, not the saint herself and neither is anyone here doubting the Church. We are defending her.
R
ready
Guest
Dear Friardchips,
Praised be Jesus and Mary!
I do not think that the St. Bridget quotes are bogus. After reading them I see how greatly disappointed our Lord is in his bad priests and bad popes, and I see that Jesus was ONLY referring to bad priests and bad popes here – not to men in general like Abdulmasih made me believe. No, men in general are NOT worse than the devil, and I think we can all agree on that. Priests and Popes are God’s handpicked chosen elect, when they lead others to hell by their bad example, etc., after having been given the handpicked vocation by God to lead souls to heaven, as their shepherd, they, to me, can be considered worse than the devil, for not only do they lead souls to hell like he, but they of all people should have been the VERY LAST to lead souls to hell. God bless you.
R
ready
Guest
Please see my post above. You do not have to believe that Abdulmasih’s St. Bridget quote is authentic, but I have no reason to believe that it is not. Of course, it could be a mistranslation, but I have no reason to believe that it is. God bless you.
F
friardchips
Guest
Hi Ready,
Thanks very much for your prompt responses! I’ll check this out myself too and post later.
Your first post makes a lot of sense to me - how you have reasoned this argument - but I would still contest it by researching further for this reason:
I suspect, that the case is really that Jesus said to St. Bridget that some hardened sinners, priests who do not serve Him in holy fashion, and some popes, hurt Him more than the devil, sometimes. Because despite their evil, the devil* is the father *of evil, however, Jesus doesn’t love the devil!
But Jesus does love us, and especially priests. It hurts a lot more when people we love hurt us than it does a stranger or known-foe. So if a person Jesus loves wantonly sins against Him and causes others to do so, then this is going to hurt Him a lot more than his cold adversary who continually leads people against Him.
As you say, it may end up being a lost in translation scenario.
At least we agree for now that this does not include the general laity for the most part.
Thanks to you and God bless.
R
ready
Guest
I was going to include something similar to what you have said here in my earlier post, but didn’t. I think it is fair to say that bad priests and popes are worse than Satan for reasons like the ones we have given, though Satan per se is the epitome of evil. Jesus told St. Margaret Mary Alocoque that He suffered greatly on account of indifferent and cold Catholics, but we know that God can not suffer, for He is in heaven: and in heaven there is no suffering. When we read private revelation properly, we can have no problem with what appears to be contradictions. I believe there exists no contradiction at all with the St. Bridget quote and with what we know about Satan and how bad priests and bad popes stand in relation to God. God bless you.Hi Ready,
Thanks very much for your prompt responses! I’ll check this out myself too and post later.
Your first post makes a lot of sense to me - how you have reasoned this argument - but I would still contest it by researching further for this reason:
I suspect, that the case is really that Jesus said to St. Bridget that some hardened sinners, priests who do not serve Him in holy fashion, and some popes, hurt Him more than the devil, sometimes. Because despite their evil, the devil* is the father *of evil, however, Jesus doesn’t love the devil!
But Jesus does love us, and especially priests. It hurts a lot more when people we love hurt us than it does a stranger or known-foe. So if a person Jesus loves wantonly sins against Him and causes others to do so, then this is going to hurt Him a lot more than his cold adversary who continually leads people against Him.
As you say, it may end up being a lost in translation scenario.
At least we agree for now that this does not include the general laity for the most part.
Thanks to you and God bless.
F
friardchips
Guest
Hi abdulmasih,
Thank you for writing the quotes again as requested! Is it possible please that you could provide the web link to the source of this quote also? If not, could you please provide the author and exact title of the book that contains this quote?
There are various reasons why this might not be as simple as what any of us think. A lot of the time the Saints said things that need a lot of extra attention and these words were often in strict context to something specific. Also, certain things are disproven by the Church, which doesn’t invalidate everything else.
Dear ready, just read your last post and so am editing this one now to say I acknowledge your well reasoned sentiments, and they are noted, but would still like to pursue a little further with this.
- Status