Is lust the only reason people contracept?

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Cora, my husband is an ill man and I am lucky to have “relations” once every three months. I want to have a normal,married, sexual relationship with him without worrying if I am ovulating or not.
As for the 2.5 children, I see that statistic all the time: Most couples have 2.5 children…what DO they mean by that???
 
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Lilyofthevalley:
Cora, my husband is an ill man and I am lucky to have “relations” once every three months. I want to have a normal,married, sexual relationship with him without worrying if I am ovulating or not.
As for the 2.5 children, I see that statistic all the time: Most couples have 2.5 children…what DO they mean by that???
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NFP isn’t for worrying. It’s meant to inform you and your husband and join you in a spirit of prayer.

I think the 2.5 statistic is just a weird statistic and it probably ended up that way from the numbers of people who were surveyed or something and it didn’t come out to a whole number. A half a person can’t exist. God bless you!
 
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norbert:
Steph -
Your signature is probably not going to be included in your message, but I agree 100% with Ms. Schlafly - “every woman doesn’t need a baby, but every baby needs a mother.” Many women recognize that they don’t need babies - because they don’t have the resources or the time to support them, or maybe because they are too young or old, or perhaps they are mentally or physically ill. Responsible women in those circumstances heed the advice of Phyllis Schlafly and do what they can to prevent unwanted pregnancy.
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So these women don’t need babies, but they do NEED sex.
Sounds like lust to me!
I like sex as much as the next gal, but it never ceases to amaze me how many people will risk eternal damnation for a roll in the hay. Not a good trade-off, IMHO.
 
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norbert:
I don’t get what you’re saying here. Why does contraception digress to “mutual taking” and natural family planning does not? What is the “true fullness of marital sexual love?” **Is that something that must involve unplanned pregnancy? **I thought sex does not always have to be about procreation, but that it can exist to further the loving bond between a man and woman.
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“Why does contraception digress to “mutual taking” and natural family planning does not?” → simply, because if you are not fully giving of yourself (as in contraceptive intercourse), then this open pandora’s box to focus more exclusively on getting your “needs” met; and given our fallen human nature, this can only go one direction, toward self-seking pleasure seeking. NFP definitely keeps this on check–think about it, the pleasure/unifying aspect of intercourse takes a back seat to the procreative aspect when a NFP practicing couple decide each time to engage in marital sexual intercourse.

“What is the “true fullness of marital sexual love?” Is that something that must involve unplanned pregnancy?” → the true fullnesss of marital sexual love is only captured and allowed expression in the total self-giving of self to your spouse in the exchange of marital embrace (i.e., no introduction of contra-ception devises/drugs/technologies). In contrast, the NFP practicing couple is exercising responsible family planning, with the essential and radical difference (from contracepting couples), the ultimate decision to bring forth new life rests in the Hands of God, the Maker and Giver of life. Hence, in this total entrustment of fertility to God, there really is no “unplanned” pregnancy by inviting Jesus to be Lord of your marital fecunity.

For a much more richer understanding of this, I suggest the following Catholic resources:

Life-Giving Love : Embracing God’s Beautiful Design for Marriage by Kimberly Hahn, Scott Hahn

Good News About Sex and Marriage: Answers to Your Honest Questions About Catholic Teaching by Christopher West

Theology Of The Body For Beginners by Christopher West

Love and Responsibility by Karol Wojtyla, H.T. Willetts
 
Read the numerous posts about “should we or shouldn’t we” and you will see this these repeated in every single one of them.

Fear of not having the financial future they want.
Fear of losing career opportunities
Fear of not being able to give that much of themselves to another (either baby or partner)
Fear of “losing” their own identity
Fear of losing their health
Fear of losing their spouse/partner’s love
Fear of ending up with “too many”
Fear of failing as a parent
Fear of ridicule from family/society
Fear of “what if’s” - much like the boogey man.

Their choices and reaction are not logical (much less faithfull) - they are the results of a deeply implanted fear, created & conditioned by social agendas.
 
You said it all.

But we are so weak, we fall into fear. The forces of evil tempt us to think that one more child will certainly be the end of us. Why do we fall for it? Well, I guess because we’re all sinners.

God bless your generousit. I so admire your faithful witness. Paula
Rob's Wife:
Read the numerous posts about “should we or shouldn’t we” and you will see this these repeated in every single one of them.

Fear of not having the financial future they want.
Fear of losing career opportunities
Fear of not being able to give that much of themselves to another (either baby or partner)
Fear of “losing” their own identity
Fear of losing their health
Fear of losing their spouse/partner’s love
Fear of ending up with “too many”
Fear of failing as a parent
Fear of ridicule from family/society
Fear of “what if’s” - much like the boogey man.

Their choices and reaction are not logical (much less faithfull) - they are the results of a deeply implanted fear, created & conditioned by social agendas.
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I agree with previous posters, that fear is possibly a larger factor than lust. It seems that people will take ABC, knowing that it is not 100% effective (even less effective than NFP in some cases), and be comfortable in having someone else to blame in cases of method failure. I get frustrated when I hear of excuses on why NFP just “isn’t for them.” We all can reason our way into any sin, but we need to wake up and realize that God gives us all different circumstances, different crosses to bear (some heavier than others), but that we all need to avoid the same sins. In any time of struggle with NFP, I always go back to thinking of Mary and drawing strength from her. She didn’t want to be singled out, have her chastity questioned, etc. She chose to be obedient to God and to accept everything that came with it. God doesn’t even ask us to carry such a burden, but some still make excuses that they are the exception to the rules. I am not trying to offend and I apologize if I have, but I just think that fear and lust are not going to add up to a hill of beans as an excuse in front of our Lord. Sometimes we are called to look beyond our immediate surroundings and comfort zones to see what God really has planned for us. So many times, we as humans are tempted to take the easy way out, but are often rewarded for working harder. This is the case with NFP for us. It’s human nature to try to reason our way out of anything, but the bottom line is that we are called to be obedient to God and the Church. NFP has enriched our lives more than I could ever have imagined. All I can say to nay-sayers is try it…you’ll see! 👍
 
I think peer pressure is one of the biggest factors beyond fear and lust that people contracept. Peer pressure is behind the rude comments from total strangers (and sometimes close relatives). Those of us who don’t contracept go against the cultural norm, and some see this as a threat.

I believe that there are many good Christians who grew up in small families, witnessing their parents, teachers, friends and society talk about contraception as a virtue. These people are robbed of their dignity and their children, and they don’t even realize it! I met a Protestant pastor with five children respond longingly when he heard I had six, but his wife insisted on stopping at five. Several wonderful old friends of mine now wish they had more, but it’s too late. These people didn’t contracept because they were lustful or because they didn’t want to let God in their lives. They believed the lies that the rest of society told them and did what everyone expected.

I look at my children as not only a gift from God, but a gift from God through the teachings of the Catholic Church. Many non-Catholics, (and some Catholics who recieved faulty or incomplete teachings) don’t have the beautiful teachings that we have about the gift of children and the meaning of the marital embrace. Rather than assuming them to be selfish, fearful, people who are filled with lust, I recognize that there but for the grace of God go I.
 
I think the main reasons are materialism and selfishness. People don’t want too many children because that cuts into the amount of “stuff” that they can accumulate and reduces the amount of “me” time.

This is also why most people marry later. Their priority is to accumulate material wealth first, then get a spouse and then have children. In many ways that material wealth remains the most important part of life.
 
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coralewisjr:
The only boyfriend I had (before I was married) didn’t understand chastity. I lent him a book about chastity and he didn’t read it. It was very hard for me to say no to sex when he wasn’t also committed to chastity. That’s a bad excuse…anyway, our relationship was ruined because we fell into sexual sin with condoms, and I eventually saw him as a sex object, even when he was very depressed. My husband and I will never contracept. I’m wondering - is lust the only reason people contracept?
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One of the results of sin, especially this type of sin, is frustration, sadness, GUILT and SHAME. The devil promises some fleeing plesures, only to decieve us, he does not want our hapiness but sadness. Not to say what those sins do to our reputations!!! Especially the poor woman. It’s no surprise that your “boyfriend” was depressed=sin=depression.
 
I have been on birth control a couple of years now - both as contraception and to regulate my menstruation. I certainly don’t use it as an excuse to go sleep with whoever, whenever - “just because I feel like it”. I have only been intimate with one person, and no, I didn’t want to get pregnant because I think it would be wrong/sinful for me to bring a child into this world that I could not (at this time) financially and emotionally support. I could also never bring myself to have an abortion in the chance that I did become pregnant, and would accept my responsibilities to the child I took part in creating. I am also against promiscuity as it is degrading to oneself and involves putting oneself at a lot of risk. Granted, I am speaking from a Non-Catholic point of view and do not believe that sex before marriage is a sin in and of itself. However, there could also be married couples that for one reason or another cannot afford to have a child at the time and to use contraception should not be seen as wrong.
 
Women especially young woman are not suppose to have regular periods, our bodies are still developing and hormones fluctuating. There is nothing wrong with an irregular period, as long as it is between 24-35 days long. If you charted you would know when your period would come, since you could detect ovulation, and hence know your thrid phase of the cycle and your period would be 11-16 days from peak feriltiy.

To regulate your period has nothing to do with your health. Actually if you did are a real problem with your fertility cycles, wouldn’t you want your doctor to actualy diagnosis you and find out what the real problem rather then supressing it?

There have been new studies showing that women on the pill actually choose weaker men. Our sexuality acts like our sixth sense, our pheromones can react (be attracted) to strong males but when you supress it you lose it.

BlessBe, I know you are not Catholic. But I know plenty of pagans that accept natural and organic methods embrace NFP. Also I think you need to be more demanding of your doctors if there is a problem. If you have irregular cycles an NFP Doctor can diagnosis it, if there is a problem would you want to know now.

Think about all the women on the pill for 15 years, and realize in their late 30’s they have infertility. First the pharmacuetical companies make money off of women to keep us not pregnant then make thousands more trying to make us pregnant. NFP saves not only me, but my health insurance company money. If you know you have an infertility problem earlier you can make better choices when to try to have children and increase that ability to detect ovulation with medical intervention.

And to restate the Church belief, it is ok to postpone pregnancy, and have sex for unitive value. The key is you don’t need contraception. If you are worried about finances, then NFP is better then the Pill because the information is cheap instead of shelling out about a dollar a day for over 15 years.

A secular site on the science behind NFP is www.tcoyf.com The message board has a groups in order of religious background, Catholic and pre-Catholic.

BTW the Pill is an abortificant. If you happen to ovulate while on the Pill, the Pill effectively makes it impossible for the life to implant so the life dies. Even though you don’t know, taking the Pill every day is an intented act of destorying life.
 
if lust is the ONLY reason for couples using ABC, even if they are unaware of their churches position on it, then lust must be the only reason for couples using NFP.

Both are having intercourse for where procreation is not a factor. Surely having sex outside the fertile times is also ‘mutual masturbation’ (lovely eh?).
 
SELFISHNESS!! Numero uno!!!

Instead of a culture that is about…

“Gift OF self” 👍

we are a culture that celebrates…

“Gift TO self” 😦
 
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cynic:
if lust is the ONLY reason for couples using ABC, even if they are unaware of their churches position on it, then lust must be the only reason for couples using NFP.

Both are having intercourse for where procreation is not a factor. Surely having sex outside the fertile times is also ‘mutual masturbation’ (lovely eh?).
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This has been already addressed, but anyway:
A big difference between NFP and ABC is that NFP prevents pregnancy by not having sex. If you never have sex, you won’t get pregnant - nothing wrong with that. If you only have sex once a month, you’re not likely to get pregnant, at least for quite a while. NFP couples are simply abstaining on certain days of the month. They aren’t disconnecting sex and procreation, because there is no sex on fertile days. No sex = no pregnancy. On the days when they do have sex, the woman is infertile because of her natural cycle, given to her by God. It is no different than sex after menopause, or for a woman who is infertile. She hasn’t done anything to disrupt her fertility, it is just naturally “dormant”. On the other hand, a contracepting couple deliberately takes action to either make the woman infertile when she would normally be fertile, or to introduce some barrier to prevent conception. They are trying to have their cake and eat it too.
 
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cynic:
they are by…
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BlindSheep:
On the days when they do have sex, the woman is infertile
read this, from some other catholics, I don’t like it but at least it’s logically consistent.

mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Natural_Family_Planning.html
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She is not infertile because of any deliberate action. She is naturally infertile, therefore THE COUPLE is not disconnecting sex from procreation - God and/or nature is.

The link you gave me is not Catholic. It is not logically consistant, either, unlass they forbid sex after menopause, or require everyone to marry, have sex every day and as many children as possible.
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But the disconnection has still taken place, and the couple know this, thus effecting the intention aswell. They will not be “giving each other their fertility” during these times, which is supposed to be an essential part of the act according to church dogma. The only consistent answer is to wait until they are again or abstain for life.
 
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cynic:
But the disconnection has still taken place, and the couple know this, thus effecting the intention aswell. They will not be “giving each other their fertility” during these times, which is supposed to be an essential part of the act according to church dogma. The only consistent answer is to wait until they are again or abstain for life.
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You seem to misunderstand the Catholic Church’s teaching about sex. Sex is not only for procreation, and there is nothing wrong with sex (within marriage) when procreation is impossible. The Church doesn’t teach that it is wrong to want to avoid pregnancy for serious reasons, either. The goal of avoiding pregnancy is not neccessarily evil, and the means of not having sex for a few days is not evil either. Altering the sex act or your fertility to prevent conception is. Think of this: God didn’t have to link sex with procreation at all. He could, if He chose, just make women become preganant randomly. He didn’t, though - He allows us to play a part in procreation. He gave us the freedom to choose to have sex or not, understanding that pregnancy could result. NFP is only a system for gathering information about a woman’s fertility - how the couple uses that information is up to them, that is, whether they have sex or not on a particular day. I used NFP to concieve - it is not a “contraceptive”. The couple avoids pregnancy by avoiding sex, something God allowed when He first decided to link sex with procreation.
They are giving each other their fertility - periods of infertility are a natural part of female fertility.
 
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cynic:
But the disconnection has still taken place, and the couple know this, thus effecting the intention aswell. They will not be “giving each other their fertility” during these times, which is supposed to be an essential part of the act according to church dogma. The only consistent answer is to wait until they are again or abstain for life.
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I can see how your understanding and conclusions are so distorted if you read and cite anti-Catholic sources as reflecting authoritative Catholic teaching. I hope that you are not representative of our estranged Protestant brethen in criticizing the [Catholic] Church for what they mistakenly believe what the Church teaches.

The only “disconnection” that has taken place is your unplugging God from you distorted logic. Hint: God is the One who gave women natural cycles of fertility. Bye the way, the authentic teaching of the Church is that the marital embrace be open to the transmission of new life along with the unifying effect. Maybe you should go directly to the source document and not rely on non-Catholic sources to tell you what to believe. See the Papal encyclical *Humanae Vitae. *
 
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