Is lying a sin in this situation?

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cristyd

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I had a lot of discrimination problems in my jobs beccause i am a woman. I was lawyas asked stupid questions like when do you plan to have a child. I had collegues whoes contracts were not prolonged because they got pregnant. In my last job i came back from vacation and my team leader asked me if i gor pregnant durring this time. I took as a joke and i said “yeah, i wish”. Two weeks after that i was fired.

Now at my present work i said that my husband and I are celebrating a year of marriage this Sunday. One of my collegues asked me if i think of children and i was scared to tell him yes, which is the truth. We are trying for some time, we are using NFP and we are using ovulation tests to establish the fertile periods. I told him “if it happens, it happens, but there’s no definite plan.”
 
cristyd said:
I had a lot of discrimination problems in my jobs beccause i am a woman. I was lawyas asked stupid questions like when do you plan to have a child. I had collegues whoes contracts were not prolonged because they got pregnant. In my last job i came back from vacation and my team leader asked me if i gor pregnant durring this time. I took as a joke and i said “yeah, i wish”. Two weeks after that i was fired.

Now at my present work i said that my husband and I are celebrating a year of marriage this Sunday. One of my collegues asked me if i think of children and i was scared to tell him yes, which is the truth. We are trying for some time, we are using NFP and we are using ovulation tests to establish the fertile periods. I told him “if it happens, it happens, but there’s no definite plan.”
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Just say that it’s your own personal business.

God Bless
 
I’m pretty certain that under an anti-discriminatory law that it is illegal to fire someone for being pregnant. I know it is unethical. (about the law, thats more of a guess than anything. Look into it)
 
teenphilo1 said:
I’m pretty certain that under an anti-discriminatory law that it is illegal to fire someone for being pregnant. I know it is unethical. (about the law, thats more of a guess than anything. Look into it)
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Ofcourse there is a law. But it is very hard to prove when it is only your word against your team leaders. They can always find reasons to argument their decision.
 
Pope John Paul once said, “There is never a need to lie.” With all the dramatic life or death situations that brings up that would seem to justify a lie, certainly you cannot justify a lie in your case.

There are a few aspects:
  1. Isn’t it rather inappropriate, intrusive and unprofessional for a business colleague to ask you questions of an intimate nature about your marriage, husband or sex life? Certainly you have no obligation to discuss anything like that at work! Come up with 3 or 4 statements you can casually toss out to change the subject. “That’s none of your business” is true but may seem harsh if your work environment is so unprofessional as it sounds. “I prefer not to discuss it.” Etc.
  2. As a Catholic, for you, children are part of marriage. You hope and expect they will be part of your life. This is the Catholic purpose of marriage, among other things, to bring new life into the world. So do not deny your inner self and your life’s purpose by speaking against it. This is almost like asking a nun, “Do you plan to remain a virgin?” and she replies, “Well, maybe, maybe not, I’ll see how I feel.”
The point is you do not have to discuss any of this, but don’t lie either. Frankly, and I have worked in many corporations, I never heard of bosses or colleagues discussing pregnancy so candidly. It’s way out of line, illegal, and too personal. Are you in the USA?
 
Lady_Marchmain said:
Pope John Paul once said, “There is never a need to lie.” With all the dramatic life or death situations that brings up that would seem to justify a lie, certainly you cannot justify a lie in your case.

There are a few aspects:
  1. Isn’t it rather inappropriate, intrusive and unprofessional for a business colleague to ask you questions of an intimate nature about your marriage, husband or sex life? Certainly you have no obligation to discuss anything like that at work! Come up with 3 or 4 statements you can casually toss out to change the subject. “That’s none of your business” is true but may seem harsh if your work environment is so unprofessional as it sounds. “I prefer not to discuss it.” Etc.
  2. As a Catholic, for you, children are part of marriage. You hope and expect they will be part of your life. This is the Catholic purpose of marriage, among other things, to bring new life into the world. So do not deny your inner self and your life’s purpose by speaking against it. This is almost like asking a nun, “Do you plan to remain a virgin?” and she replies, “Well, maybe, maybe not, I’ll see how I feel.”
The point is you do not have to discuss any of this, but don’t lie either. Frankly, and I have worked in many corporations, I never heard of bosses or colleagues discussing pregnancy so candidly. It’s way out of line, illegal, and too personal. Are you in the USA?
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Excellent reply!!! :clapping:
 
Lady_Marchmain said:
Pope John Paul once said, “There is never a need to lie.” With all the dramatic life or death situations that brings up that would seem to justify a lie, certainly you cannot justify a lie in your case.

There are a few aspects:
  1. Isn’t it rather inappropriate, intrusive and unprofessional for a business colleague to ask you questions of an intimate nature about your marriage, husband or sex life? Certainly you have no obligation to discuss anything like that at work! Come up with 3 or 4 statements you can casually toss out to change the subject. “That’s none of your business” is true but may seem harsh if your work environment is so unprofessional as it sounds. “I prefer not to discuss it.” Etc.
  2. As a Catholic, for you, children are part of marriage. You hope and expect they will be part of your life. This is the Catholic purpose of marriage, among other things, to bring new life into the world. So do not deny your inner self and your life’s purpose by speaking against it. This is almost like asking a nun, “Do you plan to remain a virgin?” and she replies, “Well, maybe, maybe not, I’ll see how I feel.”
The point is you do not have to discuss any of this, but don’t lie either. Frankly, and I have worked in many corporations, I never heard of bosses or colleagues discussing pregnancy so candidly. It’s way out of line, illegal, and too personal. Are you in the USA?
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No, I’m not from USA.
 
cristyd said:
I had a lot of discrimination problems in my jobs beccause i am a woman. I was lawyas asked stupid questions like when do you plan to have a child. I had collegues whoes contracts were not prolonged because they got pregnant. In my last job i came back from vacation and my team leader asked me if i gor pregnant durring this time. I took as a joke and i said “yeah, i wish”. Two weeks after that i was fired.
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that was against the law, why did you not pursue it at the time?

it is against the law to ask that question in the hiring process and to hire or fire on such a basis.

you owe your coworkers and employer no such personal information so it is not a lie to refuse to give it. when someone is rude enough to ask such personal questions merely say, I prefer not to discuss my personal life at work. But make sure you stick to that rule all the time.
 
Lady_Marchmain said:
Pope John Paul once said, “There is never a need to lie.” With all the dramatic life or death situations that brings up that would seem to justify a lie, certainly you cannot justify a lie in your case.
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Although this is not a novel sentiment, I would be curious to see a source for this quotation. I could not find it searching the internet.

I tend to agree that all the justifications for lying that I’ve ever seen do, in fact, involve dramatic life or death situations. The quote seems to be stating an absolute prohibition but I also recall that PJP once commented that seemingly absolute rules are not always without extreme exceptions, that one need not take extreme exceptions into account withwhen stating a principle simply.
 
Lady_Marchmain said:
Pope John Paul once said, “There is never a need to lie.” With all the dramatic life or death situations that brings up that would seem to justify a lie, certainly you cannot justify a lie in your case.

There are a few aspects:
  1. Isn’t it rather inappropriate, intrusive and unprofessional for a business colleague to ask you questions of an intimate nature about your marriage, husband or sex life? Certainly you have no obligation to discuss anything like that at work! Come up with 3 or 4 statements you can casually toss out to change the subject. “That’s none of your business” is true but may seem harsh if your work environment is so unprofessional as it sounds. “I prefer not to discuss it.” Etc.
  2. As a Catholic, for you, children are part of marriage. You hope and expect they will be part of your life. This is the Catholic purpose of marriage, among other things, to bring new life into the world. So do not deny your inner self and your life’s purpose by speaking against it. This is almost like asking a nun, “Do you plan to remain a virgin?” and she replies, “Well, maybe, maybe not, I’ll see how I feel.”
The point is you do not have to discuss any of this, but don’t lie either. Frankly, and I have worked in many corporations, I never heard of bosses or colleagues discussing pregnancy so candidly. It’s way out of line, illegal, and too personal. Are you in the USA?
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Heh. Surprise! It happens all the time. I’ve had it happen in job interviews with lawyers! “Are you married?” “Do you have any kids?” “Are you planning to have kids?” “Are you dating?”

They know full well that, in a difficult job market, you won’t complain.

That being said, I would recommend the “I’m sorry, I don’t discuss such personal things” approach. If he suggests that it isn’t personal, ask him how he felt during his last colonoscopy.
 
Personally, I don’t feel like you even lied in this situation. “If it happens, it happens, there’s no definite plan.” Isn’t this true? You** don’t have a definite plan for this. God does, but you don’t.

I don’t know, that’s just my two cents. 🙂
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
I tend to agree that all the justifications for lying that I’ve ever seen do, in fact, involve dramatic life or death situations. The quote seems to be stating an absolute prohibition but I also recall that PJP once commented that seemingly absolute rules are not always without extreme exceptions, that one need not take extreme exceptions into account withwhen stating a principle simply.
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I disagree, on the grounds that Catholic Morality is primarily based on deontological principles, under which we understand that lying is a disordered action to take. Because it is a deontological, rather than teleological, model, when something is wrong in any situation, it is wrong in ALL situations.

Thus there is never a REQUIREMENT to lie in order to do what is morally good. Even the “Nazis asking if you’re hiding jews” situation is a flawed logical construct in that it begs two points:
  1. defense of life can only be acheived by outright lying, rather than withholding information, dissemination, or active defense
  2. that by telling the truth, the person somehow shares moral responsibility of an action committed by another.
    Both of these assumptions are fundamentally wrong.
There is no time, even in life and death situations, where lying is a DEMANDED action or a moral good (or even neutral). At best lying in such a situation would be a venial sin due to the emotional duress such a situation would produce (or culpability might be altogether mitigated by the opression of the will).
 
promethius95945 said:
I disagree, on the grounds that Catholic Morality is primarily based on deontological principles, under which we understand that lying is a disordered action to take. Because it is a deontological, rather than teleological, model, when something is wrong in any situation, it is wrong in ALL situations.

Thus there is never a REQUIREMENT to lie in order to do what is morally good. Even the “Nazis asking if you’re hiding jews” situation is a flawed logical construct in that it begs two points:
  1. defense of life can only be acheived by outright lying, rather than withholding information, dissemination, or active defense
  2. that by telling the truth, the person somehow shares moral responsibility of an action committed by another.
    Both of these assumptions are fundamentally wrong.
There is no time, even in life and death situations, where lying is a DEMANDED action or a moral good (or even neutral). At best lying in such a situation would be a venial sin due to the emotional duress such a situation would produce (or culpability might be altogether mitigated by the opression of the will).
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I think this deserves a seperate thread because in order to avoid confusion since we are no longer discussing the OP’s scenario. I’ll begin a new thread with your quote above.
 
Withholding information from someone that is entitled to it is what makes a lie sinful.
 
trmyjs said:
Personally, I don’t feel like you even lied in this situation. “If it happens, it happens, there’s no definite plan.” Isn’t this true? You** don’t have a definite plan for this. God does, but you don’t.

I don’t know, that’s just my two cents. 🙂
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👍 I agree
 
Sir_Knight said:
Withholding information from someone that is entitled to it is what makes a lie sinful.
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My boss is DEFINITELY NOT ENTITLED to know whether i want to get pregnant or notr or anything else regarding my personal life.
 
cristyd said:
My boss is DEFINITELY NOT ENTITLED to know whether i want to get pregnant or notr or anything else regarding my personal life.
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If he is not entitled to that information, then not giving it to him would not be sinful.
 
Sir_Knight said:
cristyd;8029005:
My boss is DEFINITELY NOT ENTITLED to know whether i want to get pregnant or notr or anything else regarding my personal life.
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If he is not entitled to that information, then not giving it to him would not be sinful.
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Okay, but there’s a moral distinction between (A) telling him he isn’t entitled to that information and (B) lying to him about it.
 
Godfollower said:
Okay, but there’s a moral distinction between (A) telling him he isn’t entitled to that information and (B) lying to him about it.
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Okay, then. Answer me this: did Jesus lie in the following passage …[bibledrb]John 7:8-10[/bibledrb]… He said that He wasn’t going to go but went anyway?
 
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