Is lying on job applications always sinful?

[LifeIsAbsurd]

Would you see it better to explain that I was asked to resign because my boss feared a lawsuit

To me, “asked to resign because my boss feared a lawsuit” is a red flag. Resigning for unexplained personal reasons is only a yellow caution flag.

even though I felt I was justfied by my actions - which shows honesty - or simply

Your description of the incident:

“got into a physical altercation with a trespasser who goated me into an argument (my fault for losing my temper a bit). He approached me in a threatening manner by getting into my face and cussing at me. I felt threatened to a degree and took action to protect myself. I pulled him to the ground and put him into a control hold until he calmed down”

You admitted to losing your temper, arguing, and pulling someone to the ground because they cussed at you. That almost resulted in a lawsuit. I would commend you on your honesty and hire someone else.

Why? Because (a) I want people with a proven track record of successfully doing their job and (b) if a similar incident ever arose and you were involved my hiring decision could be questioned and result in my head being put on the chopping block. Feeding my family’s priority numero uno. Granted, I work at a large corporation, and small companies may function differently.

 

[Elizabeth502]

That depends to a large degree on the industry. In my industry, I’ve never seen a summary firing–even when skipping work for weeks, direct lies, or espionage was involved. Firing an educated employee in employee-friendly states risks lawsuits. In all but the worst cases, executives are offered a package to resign, and employees are put on probation. Yes, once the decision to fire is made, and a lawyer approves that enough documentation has been collected to back it up, the targetted employee is swiftly removed, sometimes without their possessions, to minimize the chance of retaliation and the effects of the incident on morale.

I know all that. and I thought I covered all that in my very first post on this thread. And I think the OP knows that as well.

I was distinguishing between firiing because of ‘bad blood’ or for genuine cause such as fraud or insubordination or failure to comply, and termination for the sake of a company’s public ‘damage control,’ despite the degree of culpability (none or a lot) of an employee. This happens all the time in even more public settings, such as other (sometimes uniformed) employees "put on administrative leave,’ or suspended without pay, or terminated. That is just even while an investigation is going on, before any culpability has been determined. It’s to save the company’s, or the agency’s, or (in this case) the boss’ hide, and to lower the visibility of the incident as much as possible.

 

[Elizabeth502]

We all know what taking the fifth is implying as we know what resignd for personal reasons most likely means. Would you see it better to explain that I was asked to resign because my boss feared a lawsuit even though I felt I was justfied by my actions - which shows honesty - or simply leave it for him to ponder by leaving it with personal reasons?

Thanks.

Really, friend, morality does not in this case require you to offer details that are not asked. A job interview is not a Catholic confessional. Just make sure you don’t contradict the truth, and it’s clear from all your replies here that that is not what’s in your heart. You will sabotage yourself if you apply a completely different set of expectations to a job interview than what your interviewer assumes is the etiquette for the job market. Then, the interviewer might think, ‘Why is this person disclosing unnecessary information? As a security guard, will he be indiscreet and offer information about the whereabouts of someone in this building to a stranger?’

God reads your heart. Go in there with the honest intentions that you have, but accept the gift he has given you, through your ex-employer, who, like some of the colorful parables Jesus told, is behaving like a shrewd but just steward. It’s not as if your ex-boss said to you, ‘Hey, it’s yours and my little secret here: Nothing ever happened. There was no incident; tell your next employer I was about to promote you, but couldn’t pay you the enormous raise you deserved, so you went to seek a better opportunity.’ That would be a dishonest conspiracy.

Your ex-steward has applied some charitable justice here. It’s God’s gift. Please take it, say a prayer of thanksgiving about it, and say a little prayer before you go into your next interview.

 

[LifeIsAbsurd]

I know all that. and I thought I covered all that in my very first post on this thread.

Oops. Yep, I just read your first post, and it’s dead-on accurate.

There have been several occasions in past job searches where I have had really lousy interviewers.

I’ll second that I’ve found choosing the jobs with the best interviewers to be an extremely reliable indicator of which company is the best fit for me.

 

[FNDRB58]

Would you see it better to explain that I was asked to resign because my boss feared a lawsuit

Thanks. That’s not exactly what happened. In addition to being angry at being yelled at to my face I felt justified in protecting myself from the agressor. I am not sure how a future interviewer would see it though. My former boss’ issue was that my arguing exacerbated a problem that could have been dealt with by the police.

I would also say to an interviewer this: There was a trespasser whom I told on two previous occasions not to return. I made contact with him and he berated me and refused to leave. I was behind on my route and did not want to wait for the police to arrive and I thought I could convince him to leave without delaying my route. He continued to berate me and we got into an argument that resulted in him advancing on me to the point where he was in my face and I protected myself by putting him into a control hold resulting in no injuries to anyone. He left the site and threatened to sue for battery. Since it was his word against mine, my boss did not intent to spend money in my (our) defense and thought it prudent to go our separate ways. He offered me the opportunity to resign and said he was in every other respect happy with my work and would give me a good reference. He would not have disciplined me had it not been for the threat of a lawsuit.

 

[FNDRB58]

Your ex-steward has applied some charitable justice here. It’s God’s gift. Please take it, say a prayer of thanksgiving about it, and say a little prayer before you go into your next interview.

Thank you for your prudent advice. This is about all I can do now.

 

[Seamus_L]

I’ve falsified information on job applications numerous times, and while I won’t say I’m very of that proud of that fact, I will say unequivocally that it beats the hell out of being unemployed, AND my employer never suffered any kind of loss or inconvenience because of it.

 

[FNDRB58]

I’ve falsified information on job applications numerous times, and while I won’t say I’m very of that proud of that fact, I will say unequivocally that it beats the hell out of being unemployed, AND my employer never suffered any kind of loss or inconvenience because of it.

Lying is a sin against our Savior who died for that very thing. He says if we can be obedient in small things then how much more we can be trusted with larger ones. Yeah, doing something contrary to our Lord can never be the solution to a problem. I see this situation I am in as a good test of my faith and cherish the opportunity to show Him how much I love him and an opportunity to increase my faith. How awesome will it be when I am before him to be able to say I was obedient in a situation where I could have salvaged something so easily by lying.

I think if I word it truthfully but keep it general then that is all I can do. Perhaps by my faith I will be blessed with employment. Nothing is impossible with God. That is what faith is all about I guess.

Thanks everyone for your advice. It has helped.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Yes, keeping it general is the key. On the off-chance that your potential employer would be interested in details of your recent termination, you will have already provided the contact name to such a potential boss, and that person can contact your ex-boss should there really be that much curiosity. You are not hiding information from him; you are following your ex-employer’s sincere direction about how to proceed, and those directions do not constitute a lie. If, following that, new potential boss does not like what ex-boss reveals (should the ex-boss be so foolish as to disclose that – notice that is not in the best interest of the ex-boss, necessasrily, to do so, because that disclosure could further fuel any litigation), new potential boss is certainly free not to hire you. Neither civil laws nor moral laws have been broken, but it would then be the potential boss’s judgment as to whether to take a chance on you, in such an unlikely scenario.

 

[Seamus_L]

When you cannot find employment, your loved ones may often suffer because of it in numerous ways. A far greater good has come out of my falsifying information on job applications. I work dilligently for my employer and do not steal from them.

 

[FNDRB58]

When you cannot find employment, your loved ones may often suffer because of it in numerous ways. A far greater good has come out of my falsifying information on job applications. I work dilligently for my employer and do not steal from them.

I have no family and sinning against God for a “greater good” is never permissible. I appreciate your logic but it is a practical, secular viewpoint which is not how God wants us to live our lives.

 

[Seamus_L]

It’s no more a secular argument then the one about the Jews hiding in the basement. In both cases it’s one of those instances where others will suffer if you tell the truth. People starved and froze to death in America during the Great Depression, and could well again, because of unemployment. Without a job, your survival and that of those who depend on you becomes questionable.

 

[FNDRB58]

It’s no more a secular argument then the one about the Jews hiding in the basement. In both cases it’s one of those instances where others will suffer if you tell the truth. People starved and froze to death in America during the Great Depression, and could well again, because of unemployment. Without a job, your survival and that of those who depend on you becomes questionable.

LOL, I had a feeling you would compare the two. Indeed both circumstances share simlar formulae, however, as one explicated in an earlier post, we do not have the duty to tell the truth to individuals who seek to murder the ones they are looking for, because they do not have a right to know. Obviously, this is different than lying to a boss about my termination. Indeed stealing may even be allowable to a family who is starving. Again, I don’t think my situation is that dire.

 

[LifeIsAbsurd]

People starved and froze to death in America during the Great Depression, and could well again, because of unemployment. Without a job, your survival and that of those who depend on you becomes questionable.

In modern American society, this argument lacks merit. We don’t allow people to starve to death when they can’t find a job. Your family’s ‘survival’ was never in question, only the quality of life if financial support was left upto you.

A far greater good has come out of my falsifying information on job applications.

Your action wasn’t for the greater good if no net gain has been attained, only a transfer of the spoils from the honest / deserving to the dishonest / undeserving. Did you consider what happened to the family of the other person?

Did you feel an obligation to find out their name and send them what their family needs to get by, or at least the portion of your paycheck beyond what your family needed to get by?

I appreciate your logic but it is a practical, secular viewpoint which is not how God wants us to live our lives.

Lying on resumes is not the common ‘practical, secular viewpoint’–consider that that behavior is discouraged on the vast majority of articles and webpages out there. As an agnostic atheist I as far as I can recollect have never knowingly lied on a resume or during a job interview nor have I advised anyone else to do so. When I spot an intentional lie during an interview, even a small one, that job applicant will not work at my company.

 

[FNDRB58]

Lying on resumes is not the common ‘practical, secular viewpoint’–consider that that behavior is discouraged on the vast majority of articles and webpages out there. As an agnostic atheist I as far as I can recollect have never knowingly lied on a resume or during a job interview nor have I advised anyone else to do so. When I spot an intentional lie during an interview, even a small one, that job applicant will not work at my company.

Indeed, a published article would frown on the idea, so there is some sense of right and wrong out there. But his practical secular viewpoint would indeed be expressed and condoned in droves were this a secular website, alas, it is not. Every non-religious person, and “religious” person, I have spoken to about my situation has indicated that a little “exagerration” never hurt anybody and that I should just put down that I left because of educational reasons or something to that effect. It is this viewpoint to which I am referring and to which is so prevalent in society. For every author who displays a web page which does not condone lying I can find you five individuals who do.