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AgnosTheist
Guest
I have a very good knowledge of Islam. What is your point?
Is man’s ego and the lack of personal humility the major cause of all Christian division?
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ralphinal
Guest
I am trying to figure out what my quote has to do with this.
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Hisalone
Guest
I rmrmber an old cartoon of two monks walking down a pathe the first monk says to the second “There is nothing you can teach me about humility”
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AgnosTheist
Guest
Comparing Muslims & Christians: With Regards to the Divine.
All Muslims believe in the Unity of God.
Some Christians believe in the Unity of God
Most Christians believe in the Trinity of God
Some Christians believe in 3 Gods
Some Christians believe in many gods
Is it ego or is it issues of clarity?
All Muslims believe in the Unity of God.
Some Christians believe in the Unity of God
Most Christians believe in the Trinity of God
Some Christians believe in 3 Gods
Some Christians believe in many gods
Is it ego or is it issues of clarity?
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reteeks21
Guest
The whole “iron fist” comment, and the “How is then that other religions are nowhere near a quarter as fragmented as christianity” question. Buddhism, for example, isn’t so fragmented
because it offers folks the chance to rule their world, and in essence be their own god. One reason folks have a hard time accepting Christianity is because it requires people to die to their self-centered ways. Now, that does not mean we die to desire completely, but it does require us to put others first. Religions that don’t ask this of you, usually don’t have problems with selfishness because that is one of the very ideas they propose.
Also, Islam isn’t as fractured (though it obviously is in many ways) because dissent gets you beat or killed. For some reason I don’t recall Christianity promoting those things these days. True, things like that happened in the past, but we have since grown out of that. Not so for the “religion of peace”.
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ralphinal
Guest
Islam is fragmented into sects. Some of them have violent interactions. Our friend Paar, for instance, is a member of one that preaches tolerance for all religions as well as the coming of a Messiah a little over 100 years ago.
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reteeks21
Guest
I did not know that. That’s awesome. Can you tell me what the sect is called? I would love to research it. Thanks.
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Hisalone
Guest
From Agnus Theist starting point it appears he agrees with what we in the west would call radical Islam since he asserts how undivided they are.
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NDfan
Guest
I disagree slightly with your evaluation here. The early church did not agree on many many items and did not teach the same things as you are proposing. If the teachings were so clear then why did it take 2 Nicea councils to try and establish an understanding of the trinity, and Jesus divinity vs. HIS human nature?? The councils didn’t agree 100% on this. If the teachings were so clear on the real presence then why does the Didache teach it as spiritual food and not transubstantiation. Why were some churches serving water, milk mixed with honey, and wine as part of the Lord’s supper. Why did Augustine believe in prevenient grace, the doctrine of the elect, and spiritual incapability of us to choose GOD ourselves. Why did some church fathers believe in infant baptism while others believed it should be chosen by the person? Why did many Bishops believe Rome had an honorary standing amongst the group but didn’t attribute authority to the bishop of Rome (the pope)?I agree with you that false doctrines do divide, but I think they arise and persist because of what the OOP has written. They spring forth from man’s ego and lack of personal humility.
None of the Catholic doctrine is derived from scripture, but from Jesus, who delivered it “once for all” to the saints. The saints then wrote down a portion of that Divine Revelation in the NT we now have. that is why there are no contradictions between the Teaching of the Church and the NT. They both come from the same infallible source, Jesus.
By way of reminder, not all Catholics are “Roman”. the Roman Rite is more common here in the west, but there are 22 other Rites of Catholicism that are not at all “Roman” in culture or language. Yet in doctrine, all agree on the Apostolic Teaching.
No matter what you think the unity in teachings simply did not exist. It may look nice that there is one published set of doctrines but those doctrines are not based on clear teachings. They are based on scriputral interpretations. There were plenty of scriptural scholars back in the early day and even then they didn’t agree.
PEACE
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AgnosTheist
Guest
All major religions follow the golden rule. However in reality, historically Jesus had been one of the leading causes of death. “put others first” riiight!
thats funny coming from a christian. the conquistas. the papal states. the recent issue of systematic re-assignment of pedophile priests. the protestant wealth gospel. selfishness. selfishness. selfishnes…
there are scores of millions of muslims living in the west and in the philippines, where there is absolute freedom of religion. so far the only new islamic sects coming out of it are less than a handful, like the “19ers” & “Quran only” sects.
this simple fact disproves your theory.
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ralphinal
Guest
Paar has links to his sect. He is an Ahmahdi (I think that is how it is spelled). It is very interesting information.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
Comparing Muslims & Christians: With Regards to the nature of Jesus.
All Muslims believe that Jesus is just a prophet.
Most Christians believe in that Jesus is God, a person of the Trinity.
Some Christians believe that Jesus is one of 3 Gods.
Some Christians believe that Jesus is merely a human prophet.
Some Christians believe that Jesus is an angel.
Some early Christians believed that Jesus was just a rabbi
Is it Ego, or is it issues of biblical Clarity?
All Muslims believe that Jesus is just a prophet.
Most Christians believe in that Jesus is God, a person of the Trinity.
Some Christians believe that Jesus is one of 3 Gods.
Some Christians believe that Jesus is merely a human prophet.
Some Christians believe that Jesus is an angel.
Some early Christians believed that Jesus was just a rabbi
Is it Ego, or is it issues of biblical Clarity?
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AgnosTheist
Guest
thats funny coming from a christian. the conquistas. the papal states. the recent issue of systematic re-assignment of pedophile priests. the protestant wealth gospel. selfishness. selfishness. selfishnes…
there are scores of millions of muslims living in the west and in the philippines, where there is absolute freedom of religion. so far the only new islamic sects coming out of it are less than a handful, like the “19ers” & “Quran only” sects.
this simple fact disproves your theory.
besides, in the past catholics also persecute dissenters. but that did not prevent the explosion of protestants.
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Hisalone
Guest
Some muslims believe it is OK to lie to Jews and Christians.
Some Muslims believe that it is OK to kill a wife or sister if they are suspected (not proven) of a sexual affair.
etc etc
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Hisalone
Guest
All Christians belive in the unity of God
All Christians believe in one God
No Christian believes in many Gods.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
Does anyone know what caused the major split in Islam? Was it ego? No it was a religious obscurity with regards to their apostolic succession. Neither the Koran nor the hadiths state who or how someone should succeed Mohammad in ruling the Ummah.
POINT: Religious division is caused by scriptural obscurity, and very rarely by Ego.
POINT: Religious division is caused by scriptural obscurity, and very rarely by Ego.
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Hisalone
Guest
So you agree with the teaching that Jahid is an outward struggle?
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reteeks21
Guest
Maybe you missed the part where I spoke about past sins of Christians, or you skipped over it. You see, the conquistas and papal states are long gone, and the Church is paying for its past mistakes. It is also admitting them and moving on.
And when you say the west please make sure you be specific by mention Europe and the U.S. In the Phil. it is becoming increasingly more dangerous to be an outspoken Christian because of mass persecutions by Muslims. Which, by the way, is illegal but they do it anyway. Christians have repented of those sins, and if they haven’t they will get their just deserts. But I do not seem to recall the Muslim establishments condemning the murder of innocent men and women, and those that point out the evil of militant Islam. Christians do oppose those actions, while the majority of Muslims do not. In fact, polls in Europe, and also in the U.S. are proving that point.
And, yes, the properity Gospel folks are wrong, but that sort of behavior does NOT propose the idea of being your own little God like Buddhism. Stop taking the points out from history that fit your comfortable little assessments and look at the growth and change in the Christian Church.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
you know, all major religions preach about the golden rule (or ‘putting others ahead’). but christians & muslims both seem to be a little less effective in putting this teaching into practice. so i cant see how this teaching is more of a turn off for christian conversion compared to other religions.
I’m filipino. what are you talking about?
That has nothing to do with the fact that in the West the scores of millions of muslims are free to use their Ego to create a multitude of new Islamic sects. So why are there hardly new ones in the west?
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Hisalone
Guest
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