Is marriage worth it?

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blessedrosary

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I don’t mean to sound pessimistic, but there are SO many factors that go into whether two people end up being happy together or not, factors that sometimes are impossible to know apriori.

OR is there an algorithmic way to determine that this person will be worth it in the long run? If there’s not, it seems like marriage is a ****-shoot: some people get lucky and are very satisfied and some people are not.

If all (I don’t mean to make this sound little) a happy marriage requires is 100% self-sacrifice for the other person, then why aren’t more marriages healthy? Or is selfishness (and related problems) the only cause of distress in marriage?
 
How to answer that. Hmmm. I remember one old guy saying that the key to the success of his 60 year marriage was that he said he got up every morning, looked in the mirror, and told himself: Well, you’re no prize, either.

It is a little like farming…there is luck involved, but it is more hard work than luck. I think all vocations are like that: you can become a priest and land in a diocese with some very taxing conditions, conditions that didn’t exist before you were ordained.

Those with a vocation for their state in life wouldn’t trade the hardships because they’re in love with those things that only their state in life has to offer…and to a certain extent, I do mean the things that the state in life has to offer, because you can be married, be widowed, and feel a need to marry again without knowing exactly who you’ll marry, while you can be passionately in love with and willing to sacrifice mightily for people in general while really being better-suited to the religious life, where there is a community to help you along but there isn’t that one person distracting your attention from God.

There is some distress in marriage because people lacked good models growing up, because of more-or-less accidental problems like a member in the family–could be a spouse or a child or yourself–with very taxing special needs, because you have responsibilities that the economy or society or whatever make very difficult to meet, and so on…I think you get the idea. Part of it is that some are ill-suited to marriage and part is because some married couples are ill-suited to the particular trials that life sends their way.

You don’t go looking for your vocations in life by asking: What will make me happy? You go looking by asking: What will please God? Would getting married or joining a convent or monastery or staying single or whatever make that more possible? So, as Matthew Kelly put it, if you want to reach the right answer, start with the right questions. I think you might find his books very helpful.
 
Good Marriage- GOD Is involved in the complete process of unity, and the Man vows to lead the household and provide a moral example to the Children. The Woman becomes united to the man, and also follows the Man in leading the household, and provides a moral example to the Children. The Children submit themselves to their parents and honor their rulings, provided they follow the above guidelines.

Bad Marriage- Any marriage where God is not found, for example;
-Where Contraceptives, or any birth control method is being used
-Where one or more of the parents supports abortion, euthanasia, or any other immoral practices now being instituted in society through the practice of false labeling, (magic, etc.)
-Where their is lack of belief in a creator, which leads to no order, because why does a godless family need order?
  • Where their is no love, only a poor supply of created resources to fuel their hearts and its desires in vain
 
I was married for 18 years and it wasn’t my decision to end it and I still think that marriage is the best thing ever.

this video sums it up listen to what is said @ 10.58.

youtube.com/watch?v=1OkLNOCUfLY

In case you miss it she says " Marriage! like everything good and important isn’t easy"
 
It’s worth it for us to embrace whatever vocation we are called to. And I think we need to expect that the Cross will be waiting for us no matter what path we take, and sometimes it will be very heavy.

I know two wives who have serious illnesses, which presents logistical and financial challenges to their families. But their husbands’ fidelity and compassion is a strong witness to what love really is. So in these cases, I suppose you could say that the “statistics” were against them…but when you consider how bravely the husbands are carrying their crosses, there’s no doubt that they are exactly where they are supposed to be in life.

Crosses are a possibility not just in marriage though–they’re definitely abundant in other states in life too.

From Sr. Josefa Menendez:
(Jesus) “Josefa, do you not know that I and the Cross are inseparable? If you meet Me, you meet the Cross, and when you find the Cross, it is I whom you have found. Whoever loves Me loves the Cross, and whoever loves the Cross loves Me.”

From what I’ve seen among friends and family, one major factor is that people enter marriage without a lot of deliberate, thorough discernment, which causes a lot of problems later. Some people seem to place too much emphasis on feelings of attraction for another person.
 
We celebrated our 25th anniversary this past year.

I think that a key ingredient is to have God in your lives individually, and together.

Thus, even though my wife is Protestant, and we belong to different churches, I try and make sure we worship together at least weekly even if it means just watching a service on t.v. together (in addition to our individual services).
 
When it’s good, it’s great; when it’s bad, it’s awful.

One thing which I would add to your schema, however, is that a good marriage requires not just 100% self-sacrifice for the other person, but 100% self-sacrifice for each other. Without that synergistic effect, the result is most likely to be dependency on one side, and burnout on the other.
 
blessedrosary said:
I don’t mean to sound pessimistic, but there are SO many factors that go into whether two people end up being happy together or not, factors that sometimes are impossible to know apriori.

OR is there an algorithmic way to determine that this person will be worth it in the long run? If there’s not, it seems like marriage is a ****-shoot: some people get lucky and are very satisfied and some people are not.

If all (I don’t mean to make this sound little) a happy marriage requires is 100% self-sacrifice for the other person, then why aren’t more marriages healthy? Or is selfishness (and related problems) the only cause of distress in marriage?
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I am not sure what your experience is and whether you have come from a broken home which might have given you a pessimistic view. The biggest factor is that marriage is a sacrament and those who enter it should do so because that is God’s calling on them. Marriage is more than 2 people ending up being “happy ever after”. Second you should marry someone who is going to share your faith in God and desire to practice your faith to the same level as yourself. If you are looking at others and think that some are happy because they just got lucky and some not, you are sadly misreading what you think you see. Many people end up in poor marriages because they did not base their decision on God and they made poor choices to begin with. Good and lasting marriages do start with good preparation before hand and a careful look at the person and their core values and be willing not to marry when there are red flags. Also good marriages start out with good morality which mean you WAIT to have sex till marriage. One of the biggest hinderances to lasting happy marriage is living together before hand. study after study after study has proven this to be true. Likewise the Catholic churches teaching on following NFP instead of artificial contraception will definitely lead to a lasting relationship. There is nearly zero divorce on any married couple that follows NFP. Look at the recent news of the “Tom and Kate” divorce. 1st of all, she lives with him, a man with 2 previous divorces and much older than her, they have a baby together then decide to get married. They do not share the same faith. They live chaotic lives and often a part and then with a 6 year in tow, they are getting divorced. They weren’t “unlucky”, they made a series of choices and actions that will doom any marriage no matter who they are. Good marriages start with God and following His plan for it. I hope you rethink your views on marriage.
 
blessedrosary said:
I don’t mean to sound pessimistic, but there are SO many factors that go into whether two people end up being happy together or not, factors that sometimes are impossible to know apriori.

OR is there an algorithmic way to determine that this person will be worth it in the long run? If there’s not, it seems like marriage is a ****-shoot: some people get lucky and are very satisfied and some people are not.
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Welcome fellow engineer (I’m assuming that based on your diction). While there isn’t a 100% certain algorithm to a happy marriage, there are ways to increase the odds. The happiest marriage include a good mix of faith, flexibility, and humor. The marriages that I’ve seen fail always seem to be missing at least one of those pillars.

But there is an intangible attribute as well. You just know that a certain person was made for you and you were made for her. It’s different than being “in love” with someone. I just can’t explain it as it is something you will just need to experience.
 
I agree with the above posts as to what is needed for a lasting, fulfilling marriage which serves God and mankind. However, mental illness undetected before marriage is a devastating problem. With all of the secularism surrounding us today, divorce still seemed as though it was not an option-Jesus endured much more than daily physical, verbal and emotional abuse. One’s stamina is derived only from His example, and continued unconditional love and support flows when that holiest of examples is followed. However, when your children begin to suffer from the same types of abuse, and when you see their hearts and minds being misshapen by the endurance of such abuse, the questions begin to take shape for real. I promised the Lord that I would protect the children He so lovingly gave us. Now I see that this type of abuse has gone on in my spouse’s family for generations, only to be hidden from “outsiders” like me, and explained away with the narcissism that only mental illness can provide. There are known disorders, well-studied by the medical and psychiatric communities, wherein the disordered individual is masterful at hiding all evidence until the lifetime commitment is made. Then, the abuse is unleashed. Until we had children, I dutifully took the abuse that was given, because I saw it as service to the Lord and the commitment I made to His sacrament. Then, my children were not only unhappy, but very unhealthy due to this abuse. There’s no “slam-dunk” answer. Every time I felt closer to a decision, it was always a “51-49” swing in my thought process. In other words, there was no good answer, only degrees of badness. How do you answer this question-enable the abuse of your children and show them that accepting such abuse from your spouse is necessary, or leave the marriage, break God’s union, commit the unthinkable with a divorce and annulment? I’m interested to hear all responses, no matter how angry with me they may be-I divorced my spouse in order to remove my children from such an awful environment as much and as often is possible. I must make my Penance to the Lord, this I know, but the abuse of my children was something I felt compelled to protect them from.
 
Strive4humility said:
I agree with the above posts as to what is needed for a lasting, fulfilling marriage which serves God and mankind. However, mental illness undetected before marriage is a devastating problem. With all of the secularism surrounding us today, divorce still seemed as though it was not an option-Jesus endured much more than daily physical, verbal and emotional abuse. One’s stamina is derived only from His example, and continued unconditional love and support flows when that holiest of examples is followed. However, when your children begin to suffer from the same types of abuse, and when you see their hearts and minds being misshapen by the endurance of such abuse, the questions begin to take shape for real. I promised the Lord that I would protect the children He so lovingly gave us. Now I see that this type of abuse has gone on in my spouse’s family for generations, only to be hidden from “outsiders” like me, and explained away with the narcissism that only mental illness can provide. There are known disorders, well-studied by the medical and psychiatric communities, wherein the disordered individual is masterful at hiding all evidence until the lifetime commitment is made. Then, the abuse is unleashed. Until we had children, I dutifully took the abuse that was given, because I saw it as service to the Lord and the commitment I made to His sacrament. Then, my children were not only unhappy, but very unhealthy due to this abuse. There’s no “slam-dunk” answer. Every time I felt closer to a decision, it was always a “51-49” swing in my thought process. In other words, there was no good answer, only degrees of badness. How do you answer this question-enable the abuse of your children and show them that accepting such abuse from your spouse is necessary, or leave the marriage, break God’s union, commit the unthinkable with a divorce and annulment? I’m interested to hear all responses, no matter how angry with me they may be-I divorced my spouse in order to remove my children from such an awful environment as much and as often is possible. I must make my Penance to the Lord, this I know, but the abuse of my children was something I felt compelled to protect them from.
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I am sorry about what happen to you and your children. May God continue to heal you and your children. You will be in my prayers and do seek out the annulment which does bring healing to those who have gone through it. Trying to find out as much as you can about one’s future spouse and family would hopefully bring out any red flags. I am saying this not to make you feel bad to as a warning to those who aren’t married and thinking of it.
God bless you.
 
So some of the replies are helpful, but I fear I must have been exceedingly ambiguous.

My criticism is the following: some of the answers are a little simplistic. (and that’s why I accuse myself.) It may have seemed from my question like I was asking for advice on having a good marriage. The pessimism comes from the fact that you can have all the things that the replies have suggested (a prayer life, the expression of intention to sacrifice [not just self sacrifice but co-sacrifice], etc.) and still have bad marriages. In part, I think it’s because though something may be a good indication of how things are, a lot of things we don’t have a method of penetrating to what’s actually going on. The very fact that annulments exist is proof of this, for an annulment only happens when a marriage doesn’t actually happen, RIGHT?, but who in their right mind is going “to get married” if there’s no marriage. OH, they can’t see the not-marriage, i.e. the things that invalidate a marriage are hidden from view (e.g. one’s intention, especially when it’s a marriage-like intention as opposed to the intention to go to the mall tomorrow). But that’s just one example. Obviously there are red flags that you’d like to fish out, obviously. But it’s not always possible to fish all of them out.

The most annoying thing about it is there are situations in the church (with respect to celibacy) that demonstrate my claim; I wasn’t looking for idealizing marriage (I do enough of that without external help). I was looking for an honest attempt to deal with certain forms of uncertainty and uncontrollable variables, no matter how much you attend to the necessary things too.

Hope that disambiguates my question.
 
Thank you, robwar, for those kind words and prayers. I don’t feel badly about your answer-quite the contrary, I posted my experience as a cautionary tale to those who have nagging doubts before they get married. Perhaps it’s pre-marriage jitters, stress, or the emotional toll that societal expectations can take as regards the actual wedding…but perhaps there’s something deeper, uglier that is nagging the person who has doubts. I would advise anyone who is considering getting married to go through couples therapy before they get married. The mere fact that “nothing’s wrong” is an even better reason to do so. An experienced professional just might be able to wipe the outer layer away, and help both parties to see what they need to see before such a blessed, but serious and difficult undertaking. Mental illness, I believe more than any other affliction, is the work of Satan. It’s the torture that can inflict so much damage on so many. To all, please be mindful when something “isn’t right.”
 
blessedrosary said:
The pessimism comes from the fact that you can have all the things that the replies have suggested (a prayer life, the expression of intention to sacrifice [not just self sacrifice but co-sacrifice], etc.) and still have bad marriages.
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I think you’re seeking a mathematical or scientific assurance that will prove to be elusive in the end. Knowing all the steps doesn’t necessarily make one a good dancer. In dancing, gracefulness behind all of the steps helps. In marriage, it’s love behind the actions you describe.

For example, my wife is a great cook. Once in a while, when she is annoyed with me, she will make me a lunch out of duty rather than love. The ham and cheese get slammed down on to the bread, and the plate plopped in front of me. Same ham, same cheese, but the result is of course not as satisfying to me. So merely doing the actions is not enough unless the actions are loving - the actions are the fruits of the love, the actions are not the love itself.

Jesus was a spotter of those living in legalism - those carrying out the law, but indifferent to the spirit behind the law.

You may be mistaken in seeking mathematical confirmation that your marriage will work. One of the best predictors is your level of commitment to making it work. Only you can measure that.

QUALIFICATION: The sandwich thing is very rare, and undoubtedly deserved when it does happen.
 
blessedrosary said:
I was looking for an honest attempt to deal with certain forms of uncertainty and uncontrollable variables, no matter how much you attend to the necessary things too.
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Life is not about a number of variables in a controlable environment. There is no formula for marriage, or raising children so they turn out exactly the way we want, or anything having to do with human beings and our relationships. When we put God at the centre of our life and let Him lead us, miracles can happen. So a marriage that does not have all the variables one assumes will bring sucess can still be a good, happy marriage.

So is it worth it? If you are called to it, then yes. is it easy? Probably not, but that is a different matter altogether.
 
😃 Marriage is actually like farming because no matter how well you think you are doing - your dad still thinks he knows best!

Marriage is like farming because it’s a way of life!

Marriage is like farming because it’s never about just the 2 of you - it’s about your place in the community too - and what you give back!

Most of all, marriage is like farming because some days all you do is deal with :eek: some days you see new life; some days, death and every day, you see and appreciate God’s creation and your place in it…and that makes all the :eek: worthwhile!!!
 
blessedrosary said:
So some of the replies are helpful, but I fear I must have been exceedingly ambiguous.

My criticism is the following: some of the answers are a little simplistic. (and that’s why I accuse myself.) It may have seemed from my question like I was asking for advice on having a good marriage. The pessimism comes from the fact that you can have all the things that the replies have suggested (a prayer life, the expression of intention to sacrifice [not just self sacrifice but co-sacrifice], etc.) and still have bad marriages. In part, I think it’s because though something may be a good indication of how things are, a lot of things we don’t have a method of penetrating to what’s actually going on. The very fact that annulments exist is proof of this, for an annulment only happens when a marriage doesn’t actually happen, RIGHT?, but who in their right mind is going “to get married” if there’s no marriage. OH, they can’t see the not-marriage, i.e. the things that invalidate a marriage are hidden from view (e.g. one’s intention, especially when it’s a marriage-like intention as opposed to the intention to go to the mall tomorrow). But that’s just one example. Obviously there are red flags that you’d like to fish out, obviously. But it’s not always possible to fish all of them out.

The most annoying thing about it is there are situations in the church (with respect to celibacy) that demonstrate my claim; I wasn’t looking for idealizing marriage (I do enough of that without external help). I was looking for an honest attempt to deal with certain forms of uncertainty and uncontrollable variables, no matter how much you attend to the necessary things too.

Hope that disambiguates my question.
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not totally and my answers come from being married 26 years, having a spouse who is a marriage counselor and following the churches teaching faithfully and observation and life experiences of being over 50 years. I am not sure what you mean by situations with celibacy that demonstrate your point. What you seemed to be asking is how do you know that you know that you know that if you are choosing a marriage partner (and it looks like you are seeking and thinking about this which is good) that who you marry is going to be a “good’ or happy lasting marriage. How can you “know” this will be a “good” marriage instead of bad. You are going to have to ask yourself what you exactly mean or define as a"Good Marriage”. To control and deal with your so called uncertainty and uncontrollable variable is to follow God, pray, attend to the necessary things, etc. If you see red flags before hand, you should not proceed as someone already pointed out by their sad story.
Many of the so called unknowns that you are stuck on WILL be taken care of if you are doing the correct things beforehand. If you are entering a marriage with all of the above things, praying, seeking counsel before hand, going to church, staying chaste before, you and your future spouse should be ready for anything that are unknown variables and challenges that come AFTER you are married such as illness, job loss, accidents etc.
Then because you and your spouse are committed and working with each other and God you will row the boat together and survive the storm. I think it is a matter of trust but the trust is on God and having and seeking God to lead you to the correct life partner. Maybe right now that is a struggle for you. If you think your calling is to marriage, continue to pray for yourself to be the right partner as well as find the right partner.
 
Here someone who is contra Marriage:
The Church teaches as a dogma that celibacy is better than marriage:

Council of Trent, pg. 225: “If anyone saith that the marriage state is to be preferred before the state of virginity, let him be anathema.”

Also marriage will give you more pain than happiness and leads more often into sin(personal observation of other people).
 
blessedrosary said:
So some of the replies are helpful, but I fear I must have been exceedingly ambiguous.

My criticism is the following: some of the answers are a little simplistic. (and that’s why I accuse myself.) It may have seemed from my question like I was asking for advice on having a good marriage. The pessimism comes from the fact that you can have all the things that the replies have suggested (a prayer life, the expression of intention to sacrifice [not just self sacrifice but co-sacrifice], etc.) and still have bad marriages. In part, I think it’s because though something may be a good indication of how things are, a lot of things we don’t have a method of penetrating to what’s actually going on. The very fact that annulments exist is proof of this, for an annulment only happens when a marriage doesn’t actually happen, RIGHT?, but who in their right mind is going “to get married” if there’s no marriage. OH, they can’t see the not-marriage, i.e. the things that invalidate a marriage are hidden from view (e.g. one’s intention, especially when it’s a marriage-like intention as opposed to the intention to go to the mall tomorrow). But that’s just one example. Obviously there are red flags that you’d like to fish out, obviously. But it’s not always possible to fish all of them out.

The most annoying thing about it is there are situations in the church (with respect to celibacy) that demonstrate my claim; I wasn’t looking for idealizing marriage (I do enough of that without external help). I was looking for an honest attempt to deal with certain forms of uncertainty and uncontrollable variables, no matter how much you attend to the necessary things too.

Hope that disambiguates my question.
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Please define what you mean by a “good” vs a “bad” marriage in specific, concrete terms.
 
Rose71 said:
😃 Marriage is actually like farming because no matter how well you think you are doing - your dad still thinks he knows best!

Marriage is like farming because it’s a way of life!

Marriage is like farming because it’s never about just the 2 of you - it’s about your place in the community too - and what you give back!

Most of all, marriage is like farming because some days all you do is deal with :eek: some days you see new life; some days, death and every day, you see and appreciate God’s creation and your place in it…and that makes all the :eek: worthwhile!!!
Click to expand...
And let’s not forget that marriage is like farming because you will have drought, storms, etc. beyond your control.
 
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