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Sam_777
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He went to a wedding in Cana with her. How many guys today would do that with their moms especially when some of their buddies were there?![]()
However, JESUS in John 2:4 called her āWomanā, and not any fancy title!
He went to a wedding in Cana with her. How many guys today would do that with their moms especially when some of their buddies were there?![]()
I am not saying separate the earthly from the heavenly I am saying that you are trying to define heavenly concepts in terms of earthly and temporal concepts which does not work. There is a quote that says āthe Bible does not necessarily tell you how the heavens go but how to go to heavenā.If you separate the earthly from the Heavenly, you might as well throw out your entire Old Testement, Leviticus in particuar.
This seems to me to be an attempt to scribe to heaven and to Mary a romanticized concept that really only applies to life in this temporal finite world. It is dangerous to subscribe earthly concepts to life in union with the Most Holy Trinity.While it is a very appealing concept we cannot begin to understand what life will be like in Heaven and I therefore believe it is unwise and even misleading to ascribe earthy concepts to Heaven and the Beatific Vision. I was told when I was little to imagine Heaven as the best it could possibly be and was promised that it would be even better than that. Ascribing titles and positions to Mary seems a bit pointless since only God can know for sure what He has prepared for those that love Him. Earthly titles and concepts will not apply.
There is a phrase ā The Kingdom of Heaven ā and our Lord Jesus is King of this Kingdom. This concept of a heavenly Kingdom is alluded to throughout the Old Testament, one such place being Daniel 2.I am not saying separate the earthly from the heavenly I am saying that you are trying to define heavenly concepts in terms of earthly and temporal concepts which does not work. There is a quote that says āthe Bible does not necessarily tell you how the heavens go but how to go to heavenā.
Yes, Jesus said there is no marriage in Heaven.The Queen (Mother) was married to the king. There is no marriage in heaven (other than the Bride of Christ), or so is my understanding. Correct me if Iām wrong.
I would not call it honorary. And it is not the same as having the authoritative power of a ruler. Yet, the Queen is able to exert much influence on the King. She is his mother and he loves her more than any of us can imagine.Is the Queen of Heaven an honorary title or authoritative title that comes with power?
Both I think, although her reign is like that of a Queen Mother.Does Mary reign in Heaven or does she intercede for us to save our souls and grant graces from God?
He is there too. But, this is a mystery. We have a Holy Trinity with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ā 3 persons in one and it is hard to wrap my mind around who does what exactly. God the Father created everything. He is the source of all power. But, I think leaves it to Jesus to run the Kingdom. And the Holy Spirit connects all of us here on earth to God the Father, Jesus and Mary and everyone else in Heaven to include the angels and saints. Jesus accomplishes things by sending out the Holy Spirit. I should state that what I just said is my intuitive sense of things. If it makes no sense to you, ignore it as it comes from nothing I have read.Where is God the Father? Where is His reigning power? Transferred to Christ?
I donāt know, but he surely loves her and wants to make her happy. He will do as she asks if it is Godās will. And, I donāt believe she would ask him to do anything that wasnāt Godās will because her heart is perfectly united with the the heart of Jesus (as his mother), with God (her Father), and with the Holy Spirit (who is her spouse).Solomon bowed down to Bathsheba. Does Jesus bow down to Mary?
The title āWomanā is not a sign of disrespect, it is the opposite ā a title of dignity. It is a formal mode of speech equivalent to the English titles, āLadyā or āMadam.ā, here in the Islamic countries we take our moms everywhere, even if she wants to visit her neighbor.
However, JESUS in John 2:4 called her āWomanā, and not any fancy title!
Solomon was not married to Bathsheba who was his mother.The Queen (Mother) was married to the king. There is no marriage in heaven (other than the Bride of Christ), or so is my understanding. Correct me if Iām wrong.
Good one!God Emeritus.
But she was married to King Davidā¦the king I referred to.Solomon was not married to Bathsheba who was his mother.
My OP explains the Queen Mother in the Davidic kingdom.
I tried to answer some of your other questions in post #64. The influence in that role (one of Davidās many wives) would not have been the same. The Kingās mother is the one who functioned as Queen in those times.But she was married to King Davidā¦the king I referred to.
The Queen Mother existed before the King. She was married to the father of the King. Jesus existed before time and all creation, including Mary. Analogies between the earthly and divine donāt line up in every respect.I tried to answer some of your other questions in post #64. The influence in that role (one of Davidās many wives) would not have been the same. The Kingās mother is the one who functioned as Queen in those times.
And Solomonā¦not Davidā¦made her queen as I explained in the OP.But she was married to King Davidā¦the king I referred to.
David is King, Bathsheba is His wife, there is no queen. Solomon is their son.The Queen Mother existed before the King. She was married to the father of the King. Jesus existed before time and all creation, including Mary. Analogies between the earthly and divine donāt line up in every respect.
If God the Father reigns supreme in heaven and earth, how does Mary rule in heaven thatās different from God the Father? Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father. Does Mary sit at the left hand? Sit at the foot of the throne to dispense grace to those who ask? Obtain favors through her Son?
For any Orthodox here, does the title Theotokos also equate to divine queenship?
You make the claim that what happens on earth happens in heaven.David is King, Bathsheba is His wife, there is no queen. Solomon is their son.
Solomon becomes king and names his mom, Bathsheba, Queen.
Kings thereafter name their moms as queen.
He didnāt make her Dowager Queen, her marriage to the previous king, David, made her so. Titles held by dowagers come through their husbands, and are held onto as an honorific when the son takes the throne. So in that way, Queen of Heaven really shouldnāt apply here.And Solomonā¦not Davidā¦made her queen as I explained in the OP.
Well, itās not my claim so much as itās my understanding based upon a few thingsā¦like scripture, for example.You make the claim that what happens on earth happens in heaven.
Answer this question first: How is Jesus King of Kings and Lord of Lords in relation to God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.So where is Mary is heaven in relations to God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit?
Jesus appointed Peter to act as Royal Steward in His absence here on earth, so, off the top of my head, I donāt know that she exercises any authority of her own other than over Satan and his minions through her intercessory prayer. But I may think of something else.What authority does she exercise and how?
She serves themā¦and prays for us to the Trinity. Her will is attuned to the will of the Trinity.You make the claim that what happens on earth happens in heaven.
So where is Mary is heaven in relations to God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit?
What authority does she exercise and how?
Mary has long been called the āspouse of the Holy Spiritā, so if you want to acknowledge that her āhusbandā was God, that works, too.He didnāt make her Dowager Queen, her marriage to the previous king, David, made her so. Titles held by dowagers come through their husbands, and are held onto as an honorific when the son takes the throne. So in that way, Queen of Heaven really shouldnāt apply here.
Arguing her queenship by dowager title rights is the wrong way to go about it.
(Disclaimer for anyone else reading this: Iām actually all for using Queen of Heaven in reference to Mary. So please no misunderstandings about ācontemptā)
OK, this makes more sense (in my tiny brain). It was said that the Queen Mother counseled her son, the king. And I ask myself, āWhy does God need counsel?ā Also, because the Queen Mother is the mother of the king, her place is āhigherā, as any mother is, and Iām told what happens on earth happens in heaven. I just had a hard time reconciling this since Jesus is God, and no creature is āhigher thanā or āequal toā Him, even though He is fully human as well as fully God.She serves themā¦and prays for us to the Trinity. Her will is attuned to the will of the Trinity.
Her authority is to love us and advocate for usā¦and to lead us to her Son and to heaven.
In other wordsā¦her queenship is a queenship of love, charity, humility and servitude.
You might like this article short reflection:
ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2bvm53.htm
MARY AND THE HUMAN DRAMA OF DEATH
Pope John Paul II
Having been closely associated with Christās redemptive work, it was fitting for Mary to share the experience of death before partaking of the Resurrection
āThe experience of death personally enriched the Blessed Virgin: by undergoing mankindās common destiny, she can more effectively exercise her spiritual motherhood towards those approaching the last moment of their lifeā, the Holy Father said at the General Audience of Wednesday, 25 June, as he reflected on the dormition of the Mother of God. Here is a translation of the Popeās catechesis, which was the 53rd in the series on the Blessed Mother and was given in Italian.
Oh, boyā¦Iām not going to venture there!Mary has long been called the āspouse of the Holy Spiritā, so if you want to acknowledge that her āhusbandā was God, that works, too.
But Iād like to see you make that case in light of the Hebrew understanding of the āgebirahā (Strongās 1376).
If a king was deposed or killed in battle, another man ascended to the throne. His mother, not his wife, would be gebirah. This position was derived from her relationship to her son and not to her husband who was never king.
However, itās an interesting question, so Iāll see what else I can come up with.
Thanks for the challenge!![]()