Is masturbation a mortal sin under any circumstances?

[Phil_Marinus]

The Bible is not the only source of authority. There is also the Church. It is true that the Bible does not explicitly condemn masturbation. But the Church has and she has grounded her doctrine upon the sexual ethics as outlined in the Scriptures.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
OS.

Is the Condemnation of Masturbation brought about by people's interpretation of holy scripture in the Bible, or is it brought about by people that believe more about self sacrifice ?

 

[OraLabora]

It is sir, sir.

No I have never experienced your particular trial. But hardship and trial is universal to all men and there is a Catholic response to trial and hardship. It is suffering in union with Christ and His Mother. I confess that my original post may certainly have came across as unsympathetic and rather harsh. I do apologise for my poor choice of words. But I stand by the principle I outlined.

Abortion is always evil, it is always a grave offense and is never permissible even to save the life of the mother. Masturbation is also a severely grave matter and is not permissible to alleviate suffering. It is an objectively grave offense in all circumstances. It is the age old question. “If you could go back in time and kill Hitler as a baby, would you?” And the answer remains the same. Absolutely not as that would be a gravely immoral act.

There remains nothing to be worked out in the confessional besides ones own moral culpability. That is between yourself and your priest. But if your priest has told you that the act is permissible in a case of medical necessity then your priest is wrong.

You tell me to “mind my own business” but you posited this medical case as an example of when masturbation may be permissible. I simply responded to your public statement. I had no idea that you yourself suffer with this trial. Again you made that public and invited responses when you did so. The fact that you yourself suffer with this burden has not changed my response except that I will further add that I will pray for you and encourage you to seek another confessor.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
OS.

First of all it masturbation is not at the same level as abortion. The Church teaches this. CCC 1858 says: “The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is grater than theft”. To suggest it is, and that the approach to both sins identical, is plainly wrong and not consistent with the Church’s notion of sin.

That said, it’s not just an issue of suffering. Several times I nodded off behind the wheel coming home in the evening, from lack of a good night’s sleep. Fortunately I managed to catch myself before driving off the road, but it scared the life out of me. It’s a matter of safety of myself and those I share the road with, and simply being able to function.

Nowhere did I say my confessor say it was OK on the grounds of medical necessity.

We all have different capacities to resist various temptations. One size does not fit all. Gravity is objective (but with the nuance of degree of gravity), culpability is subjective. Which is why CCC 2352 says what it says. Culpability is greater or lesser depending on circumstances, which is why they are to be dealt with in the confessional and why I will take the advice of a wise old orthodox Benedictine monk confessor who has known me for several years, and not an anonymous Internet forum.

And which is why I tell folks on said forum to not obsess over it, but rather take to the confessional and follow the priest’s advice, which will be tailored to one’s specific circumstances, and will take all factors into consideration including any tendency towards scrupulosity which may be an aggravating factor.

 

[thistle]

Is the Condemnation of Masturbation brought about by people’s interpretation of holy scripture in the Bible, or is it brought about by people that believe more about self sacrifice ?

Did you not read the Church teachings on this that I posted for you?
The Church is the teacher because she was given authority by Christ. That means Church teachings have the backing of God behind them. If you are Catholic and believe that Christ established the Catholic Church then you know that the Church cannot err in matters of faith and morals.
The Church teaches infallibly that masturbation is a sin of grave matter. Catholics MUST BELIEVE that.
Objectively, any Catholic who rejects this teaching commits a mortal sin and heresy.

CCC 2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."

 

[O_Sapientia]

First of all it masturbation is not at the same level as abortion. The Church teaches this. CCC 1858 says: “The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is grater than theft”. To suggest it is, and that the approach to both sins identical, is plainly wrong and not consistent with the Church’s notion of sin.

That said, it’s not just an issue of suffering. Several times I nodded off behind the wheel coming home in the evening, from lack of a good night’s sleep. It’s a matter of safety of myself and those I share the road with, and simply being able to function.

Nowhere did I say my confessor say it was OK on the grounds of medical necessity.

We all have different capacities to resist various temptations. One size does not fit all. Gravity is objective (but with the nuance of degree of gravity), culpability is subjective. Which is why CCC 2352 says what it says. Culpability is greater or lesser depending on circumstances, which is why they are to be dealt with in the confessional and why I will take the advice of a wise old orthodox Benedictine monk confessor who has known me for several years, and not an anonymous Internet forum.

And which is why I tell folks on said forum to not obsess over it, but rather take to the confessional and follow the priest’s advice, which will be tailored to one’s specific circumstances, and will take all factors into consideration including any tendency towards scrupulosity which may be an aggravating factor.

Yes there are degrees to the gravity of sin and I do not deny this. But that does not change the fact that masturbation remains a grievous offense which is one of the conditions for an act to be mortally sinful. Sodomy is of higher gravity than masturbation, masturbation is of higher gravity than fornication, all three will land you in a state of mortal sin if you have full knowledge and willfully consent. The grave nature of masturbation does not alter with our own subjective culpability. I fully acknowledge that there can be diminished capacity but diminished capacity is not an excuse to sin and penitents that may have diminished capacity due to force of habit, etc., should not be encouraged in contentment but should rather be directed towards escaping the thralldom of sin.

If your medical condition places your safety and the safety of others at risk the response is not to commit an offense of a grave nature to avoid this. It would be to not drive if you cannot do so safely. The answer would be to have the surgery done even if impotence would be an unintended side-effect. Yes your financial well-being could suffer, yes your capability to procreate may be taken from you. But to spare committing a grave and unnatural act? It would be the moral and right thing to do.

You are a Benedictine Oblate yes? You have made a solemn offering of yourself to God. If your job must go, offer it to God. If you cannot have children, offer it to God. An offering of ones self is the entire vocation of an Oblate. All of these options would be preferable, would give glory to God and lead to your own sanctification, rather than to indulge in a grave offense against God and the natural law.

I am not accusing you of being in a state of mortal sin. I am not judging the state of your soul. But I can and will judge the morality of a certain action and my Catholic faith informs me what the objectively just and moral decision would be in your situation. And it is not to offend against nature.

No one has ever said that being Catholic is easy or that doing the right thing comes naturally. It is hard, it is a struggle. But the facts are black and white.

By all means work this out with your confessor. But as this is a pubic discussion on a medical issue that will not only effect you but others also I will continue to comment on the issue and advise out of charity for my neighbour and for the honour of God.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
OS.

 

[OraLabora]

Yes there are degrees to the gravity of sin and I do not deny this. But that does not change the fact that masturbation remains a grievous offense which is one of the conditions for an act to be mortally sinful. Sodomy is of higher gravity than masturbation, masturbation is of higher gravity than fornication, all three will land you in a state of mortal sin if you have full knowledge and willfully consent. The grave nature of masturbation does not alter with our own subjective culpability. I fully acknowledge that there can be diminished capacity but diminished capacity is not an excuse to sin and penitents that may have diminished capacity due to force of habit, etc., should not be encouraged in contentment but should rather be directed towards escaping the thralldom of sin.

If your medical condition places your safety and the safety of others at risk the response is not to commit an offense of a grave nature to avoid this. It would be to not drive if you cannot do so safely. The answer would be to have the surgery done even if impotence would be an unintended side-effect. Yes your financial well-being could suffer, yes your capability to procreate may be taken from you. But to spare committing a grave and unnatural act? It would be the moral and right thing to do.

You are a Benedictine Oblate yes? You have made a solemn offering of yourself to God. If your job must go, offer it to God. If you cannot have children, offer it to God. An offering of ones self is the entire vocation of an Oblate. All of these options would be preferable, would give glory to God and lead to your own sanctification, rather than to indulge in a grave offense against God and the natural law.

I am not accusing you of being in a state of mortal sin. I am not judging the state of your soul. But I can and will judge the morality of a certain action and my Catholic faith informs me what the objectively just and moral decision would be in your situation. And it is not to offend against nature.

No one has ever said that being Catholic is easy or that doing the right thing comes naturally. It is hard, it is a struggle. But the facts are black and white.

By all means work this out with your confessor. But as this is a pubic discussion on a medical issue that will not only effect you but others also I will continue to comment on the issue and advise out of charity for my neighbour and for the honour of God.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
OS.

You’re kidding me right? I didn’t ask for your advice nor do I plan to follow such thoughtless, condescending and uncharitable advice.

 

[joshvanrad]

I’ve been subject to these situations and they are not comfortable. It’s been built up to the point where it becomes uncomfortable, even painful at times. There have been other times where I’ve been woken up from such things, even multiple times during the night and left extremely tired the next day.

Is masturbation a sin? Yes. How grave is that sin? Well, according the the CCC it is not always for us to decide, and best left to be handled by a confessor (should we fall victim to that sin).

At the end of the day God always knows our hearts, so it is best that we bring these struggles to Him. God, along with a good confessor, can help guide you through these struggles. As someone who came to the Conversion-Party a little later than others I have a past of sexual sins that still weigh heavy on my mind after several years of being a very active and very devout Catholic. To the people who are saying “You’re just finding excuses to keep masturbating”, I say “Consider yourself blessed that you are not burdened by such temptations and physiological urges”. It is not so black and white for some people- the people who have felt the very physical effects of such things.

 

[thistle]

I’ve been subject to these situations and they are not comfortable. It’s been built up to the point where it becomes uncomfortable, even painful at times. There have been other times where I’ve been woken up from such things, even multiple times during the night and left extremely tired the next day.

Is masturbation a sin? Yes. How grave is that sin? Well, according the the CCC it is not always for us to decide, and best left to be handled by a confessor (should we fall victim to that sin).

At the end of the day God always knows our hearts, so it is best that we bring these struggles to Him. God, along with a good confessor, can help guide you through these struggles. As someone who came to the Conversion-Party a little later than others I have a past of sexual sins that still weigh heavy on my mind after several years of being a very active and very devout Catholic. To the people who are saying “You’re just finding excuses to keep masturbating”, I say “Consider yourself blessed that you are not burdened by such temptations and physiological urges”. It is not so black and white for some people- the people who have felt the very physical effects of such things.

That is not correct. Masturbation is ALWAYS a sin of grave matter. The priest at Confession will determine if it is a mortal sin or not.
As I have said before I firmly believe that hardly anyone can have reduced culpability and that yes most people who masturbate regularly try to make excuses to continue doing so and if anyone told them their culpability might be reduced they jump on that and say yes so that means its okay.

 

[Deus_tecum]

Seriously folks…aren’t there more important issues to discuss and/or be concerned with. Close the thread!

 

[thistle]

Seriously folks…aren’t there more important issues to discuss and/or be concerned with. Close the thread!

This is a discussion forum. Nobody is forced to participate.
Your argument could be put forward by anyone for any topic so we may as well close all the forums. Is that the answer? We don’t talk about anything?

 

[joshvanrad]

That is not correct. Masturbation is ALWAYS a sin of grave matter. The priest at Confession will determine if it is a mortal sin or not.
As I have said before I firmly believe that hardly anyone can have reduced culpability and that yes most people who masturbate regularly try to make excuses to continue doing so and if anyone told them their culpability might be reduced they jump on that and say yes so that means its okay.

I am going to respectfully and completely disagree with you.

 

[Phil_Marinus]

I am going to respectfully and completely disagree with you.

I also would like to say the same… I had earlier written a comment, but scrapped it because I didn’t believe common sense would prevail… I think it best I unsubscribe from this thread because of the nonsense being discussed .

 

[thistle]

I am going to respectfully and completely disagree with you.

I don’t see how you can “completely” disagree with me. You can certainly disagree with my opinion on people makes excuses but you cannot disagree that masturbation is always a sin of grave matter because that is an infallible teaching of the Church. Whether it becomes mortal is a separate issue.

 

[OraLabora]

I don’t see how you can “completely” disagree with me. You can certainly disagree with my opinion on people makes excuses but you cannot disagree that masturbation is always a sin of grave matter because that is an infallible teaching of the Church. Whether it becomes mortal is a separate issue.

I do disagree with your opinion on people making excuses. I don’t deny that the Church teaches that it is grave matter; it says so black-on-white in the CCC.

Sometimes I do wonder though, if the Church’s teaching that moral declarations cannot be “undone” didn’t box her in, so that she felt necessary to later qualify the degree of culpability with such a wide range of mitigating factors after realizing that it’s practically such a universal sin that it is unrealistic to expect 100% compliance with many if not most individuals. This issue is one that probably every human wrestles with; it’s a natural part of discovering one’s sexuality, if left to our own instincts everyone will experiment with it.

ISTM it would have been better to simply say that it can be a disordered and selfish act in some circumstances, in particular if it denies the spouse his or her marital rights,or if it is reinforced by pornography. As it is the CCC’s mitigation of culpability would appear to cut considerable slack, so perhaps the effect is the same. I stress though that this is only my opinion and I continue to maintain that the issue should be taken seriously, and taken to the confessional where it is best dealt with. And if it is a struggle or a habitual issue, it would help to work with a regular confessor who can provide counsel at the same time.

For those who don’t face this temptation or can easily overcome it, as was said I think they should be thankful, and should be more charitable for those of us for whom it is a real struggle. None of us here, as far as I can gather, are anywhere near sainthood and if this isn’t an issue for some folks, I’m sure they have their own sins to deal with. We are all on a road to conversion, but not everyone is at the same milepost, and some take wrong turns and need time to figure out that they’re on the wrong road and need to make a u-turn. The Rule of St. Benedict that inspires me makes clear that it is a road to conversion for seekers, not a refuge for those who have already arrived.

 

[thistle]

I do disagree with your opinion on people making excuses. I don’t deny that the Church teaches that it is grave matter; it says so black-on-white in the CCC.

Sometimes I do wonder though, if the Church’s teaching that moral declarations cannot be “undone” didn’t box her in, so that she felt necessary to later qualify the degree of culpability with such a wide range of mitigating factors after realizing that it’s practically such a universal sin that it is unrealistic to expect 100% compliance with many if not most individuals. This issue is one that probably every human wrestles with; it’s a natural part of discovering one’s sexuality, if left to our own instincts everyone will experiment with it.

ISTM it would have been better to simply say that it can be a disordered and selfish act in some circumstances, in particular if it denies the spouse his or her marital rights,or if it is reinforced by pornography. As it is the CCC’s mitigation of culpability would appear to cut considerable slack, so perhaps the effect is the same. I stress though that this is only my opinion and I continue to maintain that the issue should be taken seriously, and taken to the confessional where it is best dealt with. And if it is a struggle or a habitual issue, it would help to work with a regular confessor who can provide counsel at the same time.

For those who don’t face this temptation or can easily overcome it, as was said I think they should be thankful, and should be more charitable for those of us for whom it is a real struggle. None of us here, as far as I can gather, are anywhere near sainthood and if this isn’t an issue for some folks, I’m sure they have their own sins to deal with. We are all on a road to conversion, but not everyone is at the same milepost, and some take wrong turns and need time to figure out that they’re on the wrong road and need to make a u-turn. The Rule of St. Benedict that inspires me makes clear that it is a road to conversion for seekers, not a refuge for those who have already arrived.

Christ didn’t say it would be easy to follow him but he is our only salvation.

 

[joshvanrad]

He also said in Luke 15:

“I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.”

 

[Don_Juan]

Seriously folks…aren’t there more important issues to discuss and/or be concerned with. Close the thread!

This is a discussion forum, not an Answers website where the OP takes his favorite answer and decides when to close the thread.

 

[musicnote]

I cannot count the times I have heard, “the church teaches” followed by a quote from the CCC or other authority in response to a question or in a discussion. In reality the church doesn’t teach; the church dictates. And in this use, “the church” is meant to be the men of the cloth and not the people in the pews - although we all are members of “the church.”

When I was young I confessed to masturbation many times. More than once I was told that it was a mortal sin, Onanism, a sin against chastity, an abuse of my body, that I would end up in an insane asylum if I didn’t stop, et., etc. I’m sure many of the readers here have heard the same things. (I’m surprised I wasn’t told I would grow hair on the palm of my hand). I wonder if the priests who said these things really believed them, especially the Onan and asylum bits; priests lying in the confessional? Isn’t that laughable! Never did my confessor say “it is a sin because…” and give logical reasoning as to why and supported by a biblical reference or other source. Just the dictate; “it is a sin.”

If masturbation is a sin, not just a sin but a mortal sin, why didn’t Jesus teach about it. He taught about many sins but not this one; and “the church teaches” that this is a mortal sin equivalent to murder, rape, etc. Aside from the legalistic mumbo jumbo of the CCC what is there to support believing that masturbation is a sin? Teach me.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

If masturbation is a sin, not just a sin but a mortal sin, why didn’t Jesus teach about it. He taught about many sins but not this one; and “the church teaches” that this is a mortal sin equivalent to murder, rape, etc. Aside from the legalistic mumbo jumbo of the CCC what is there to support believing that masturbation is a sin? Teach me.

That’s because Jesus was not a moralist and did not preach against these types of sins.

He preached against those who would judge those who commit those types of sins.

Oh yeah He said, “go and sin no more” to the adulteress. I’ve actually been reminded of that when I say Jesus was not a moralist – hardly what I’d consider a “rant” given His ability to “raise hell” when He wasn’t happy about someone’s actions.

Not even close to what He said to the pharisees that didn’t like Him touching His feet. They were a) jealous because they were missing out, b) too blind to even realize it, and c) indignant because she showed them up to be unhospitable and ill-mannered.

Who did Jesus say was the example of love? The sinful woman giving Him a foot rub with love, tears, perfume, whatever – to mix up a couple situations. Not the man who told Him of her sins and warned Him to stay away from her.

He thought if Jesus was God, He’d know better than to associate with the likes of that woman. Like Jesus is going to say, “OMG are you kidding me? I’m letting a sinful person touch me? How icky and gross and this woman should be ashamed for having thought she would be kind to me.”

Turning the tables over was clearly not about lustful behavior. The Seven Woes in Matt 23 have nothing to do with sexual immorality; these are where Jesus showed us the REALLY BAD problems – they were in the hearts and minds of the people who both tried to be righteous, and who compared themselves to those they deemed less so.

Have things changed in 2000 years? I say for the most part, no.

But we tell our kids to “be like Jesus” by avoiding those who sin. Huh???

MS