Is masturbation a mortal sin under any circumstances?

[OraLabora]

Perhaps I’m not looking at this subject properly.

Maybe it’s because, as a young man (and not a saint), I didn’t have much of a problem resisting the temptation to masturbate after Fr. Reilly literally sacred the be-Jesus out of me in confession.

You hit the nail on the head. The problem is that we aren’t all cut from the same cookie-cutter. Neither you or I, as penitents, nor priests. It is not a black-and-white world. It reminds me of Human Resources departments that expect every employee to behave in exactly the same way and formulate cookie-cutter policies based on that deeply flawed notion.

The confessional is the place to determine the circumstances of every individual, and the appropriate response to those circumstances. They will vary from individual to individual. And the priests themselves will vary in how they respond to these circumstances.

At the end of the day, we are all encouraged to do our best. We all have different responses to the same stimuli. Think about what you said for a minute.

Now imagine if I told an alcoholic “you know, I never touch alcohol, because ever since I saw a classmate get killed drunk driving, getting drunk scared the beejesus out of me, so I don’t understand why you can’t simply stop drinking”.

The sinner needs to do his best to overcome the habit. Priests need to do their best in helping penitents. Some take a stricter approach, others a more holistic approach. They also have to try to gauge what will work with the individual penitent, not something easy if the only contact is a few short minutes in the confessional, perhaps a bit easier for a regular confessor. Some feel they do more good with a gentler approach, some with a stricter approach.

Some priests, such as yours, are way over the top. Masturbation is a sin that probably every healthy male engages in (and a good number of healthy females as well). It’s a normal part of discovering one’s self and one’s sexuality; almost every person left to his or her own devices will discover it. It shouldn’t be demonized. It should be recognized for what it is, an act that has the potential for damaging the human relationship between spouses (even for those not married… it can lead to trouble down the road when they do get married) and between the sexes by trivializing one of the most beautiful gifts that God gave us; but it is not murder, abortion etc. as Vames said. A sense of proportion is indeed necessary here.

It’s also important to realize that in the days when the Church formulated her views on this sin, most people got married in their teens. Today it’s not unusual for people to get married in their early 30s because of college, starting a career, etc. Is it realistic to expect a normal healthy person to not have any sexual release at all for more than 15 years following puberty? That’s why I think those mitigating circumstances were written into the CCC, to account for the fact that we all have different capacities in dealing with our sex urges, and we all have different individual circumstances.

In an ideal world, sex would only happen in the confines of marriage and it would be of the licit kind only. Unfortunately we live in a fallen world, and to think that everyone in the world is capable of overcoming this sin just because some can, is about as realistic as thinking that Prohibition can cure alcoholism. A more nuanced and balanced approach is needed unless we want to create more problems than we cure.

And please folks, lets stop confusing this issue with the issue of pornography. Masturbation has been around a lot longer than pornography as we now know it has. While the two can be linked and pornography can certainly be used with this sin, the imagination can most certainly fuel it as much as porn can and has done so long before the Internet or Playboy magazine have existed.

 

[vames]

And please folks, lets stop confusing this issue with the issue of pornography. Masturbation has been around a lot longer than pornography as we now know it has. While the two can be linked and pornography can certainly be used with this sin, the imagination can most certainly fuel it as much as porn can and has done so long before the Internet or Playboy magazine have existed.

An important point. Has anyone seen the movie “The White Ribbon” by Michael Haneke? One of the adult characters wanted to keep his pre-teen son from masturbating at night, so he forced him to sleep with his hands tied to the bed. It is a fictional story about a pre-WWI village, but such a mentality did exist, as witnessed also by the “anti-masturbation devices” invented in previous centuries, following a wrong medical understanding of masturbation. Needless to say, there was no tv or internet porn back then.

 

[Blessed_is_He]

I have heard guys need to do it. They will get blue balls. I assume that if you never start that you will never get blue balls right? I don’t know what to tell my future teen son. He is 1 now. Would it be a good idea when the time comes for a priest have that talk with him? Also, the whole spilling the seed thing is for guys. Is it a sin for women too since we have no seeds.

 

[billcu1]

Excellent response
Objectively, masturbation is always a subject of grave matter. However, to assess the degree of sin, two other conditions are necessary at the same time:

1. Full knowledge
2. Full Consent - what is quoted above in the quote box might lessen full consent and therefore mortal sin is not present since the “full” in “full consent” is not present.

Rather often I think, we Catholics can say “mortal sin” when what we should state is “grave matter” and the first condition (of the three necessary conditions) for mortal sin.

In the final analysis for every single one of us, God is our Judge. “Not all who say Lord! Lord! shall enter into My Kingdom”. Some can find this a quite frightening statement until one comes to understand - at least in some measure, The Loving Mercy of God. Every single one of us at Judgement will direly need to very humbly beg His Loving Mercy.

Psalm 51 "3For I know my iniquity, and my sin is always before me.
To thee only have I sinned, and have done evil before thee: that thou mayst be justified in thy words and mayst overcome when thou art judged.
For behold I was conceived in iniquities; and in sins did my mother conceive me. "

IMO since masturbation isn’t a normal action. When someone’s life straightens up to where it should be this kind of act is going to end itself. Take Bestiality for example. The Bible accurately calls this confusion. That is a culpability question right there. Something is wrong in someone’s life. When things straighten out, this should leave on its own.

 

[billcu1]

I agree. But does “scaring the be-Jesus” out of a teenager seem to you a good and honest thing to do? Especially when this is accomplished by telling lies? To say that masturbation is a most grave and abominable sin that provokes the most terrible chastisements both in this world and in the next is a lie that can only lead someone to think that masturbation is akin to murder, if not even harder to forgive. Then what to say about rape, abortion, adultery, torture, murder, if a priest wants to keep the proportions? That God is so angered by these sins that He unleashes cancers and tsunamis and strikes the culprits dead?

I hope it’s clear that I’m not an advocate of masturbation. It’s a sad, unfulfilling thing both for men and women. One can become very selfish, lose the self-respect and lose the interest for finding love in a personal relationship and in marital life - what the text of YouCat says above is true. But I think that the Church is wise to explain things rationally and to consider all the circumstances, instead of making people fear and hate their own bodies and fall prey to desperation (there was an incredible thread on CAF where a young poster said that antidepressants reduce the sex drive, so why can’t people take such pills to avoid masturbation; he didn’t know or care about the side effects of these drugs on an otherwise healthy person). And I don’t think that today there are few practicing Catholics in the world because they are not scared anymore in the way your priest did.

Well God is not the author of fear. There’s no good reason for that. If that’s involved something’s wrong somewhere.

 

[musicnote]

I don’t think Onan was masturbating when he “spilled his seed on the ground” ; he was having sexual intercourse with the wife of his dead brother at his father’s instructions. He did this (withdrew at ejaculation) because he didn’t want his sister-in-law to have his son who would then inherit his father’s wealth. The whole story is one of debauchery but there is no masturbation.

Mortal sin? I think not!!! Something that is as natural as breathing in and breathing out - this is one of those unfounded “sins” - if it feels good it must be a sin.

It is discussed in the Catechism as a sin against chastity - “an inherently selfish act, devoid of love.” That certainly makes it sound bad, but a mortal sin? The equivalent of murder?

Other than the stretch of Onanism, which is pretty rediculous, is there any scriptural basis for this “mortal sin”?

The Youth Catechism of the Catholic Church says, “The Church does not demonize masturbation, but warns against trivializing it.” and goes on about the dangers of lewd pictures etc. on the internet.

 

[Phil_Marinus]

I don’t think Onan was masturbating when he “spilled his seed on the ground” ; he was having sexual intercourse with the wife of his dead brother at his father’s instructions. He did this (withdrew at ejaculation) because he didn’t want his sister-in-law to have his son who would then inherit his father’s wealth. The whole story is one of debauchery but there is no masturbation.

Mortal sin? I think not!!! Something that is as natural as breathing in and breathing out - this is one of those unfounded “sins” - if it feels good it must be a sin.

It is discussed in the Catechism as a sin against chastity - “an inherently selfish act, devoid of love.” That certainly makes it sound bad, but a mortal sin? The equivalent of murder?

Other than the stretch of Onanism, which is pretty rediculous, is there any scriptural basis for this “mortal sin”?

The Youth Catechism of the Catholic Church says, “The Church does not demonize masturbation, but warns against trivializing it.” and goes on about the dangers of lewd pictures etc. on the internet.

AT LAST… Someone with a little Intelligence… Praise the Lord !

 

[esieffe]

Do people grow out of it and stop naturally?

Yes. There are a few graces to be found in growing older, and that is most assuredly one of them!

 

[TiggerS]

Yes. There are a few graces to be found in growing older, and that is most assuredly one of them!

 

[Blessed_is_He]

No one is answering my question. Is it a sin for females to since we don’t have seeds?

 

[dshix]

No one is answering my question. Is it a sin for females to since we don’t have seeds?

It is a sin. When female persons masturbate, they are using their sexual organs for a purpose they are not intended: self gratification. Sexual organs are intended for procreation and the unity of two spouses. Masturbation achieves neither.

 

[NickD]

The third element is missing: full consent. There can be mitigating circumstances: habit/addiction, recent loss of one’s spouse, immaturity, etc. These are things to bring up in the confessional; then follow the priest’s advice as he will also have other potential and equally grave satanic traps in mind such as driving the penitent to scrupulosity.

I can understand where the OP is coming from. Some people never have nocturnal emissions. One of my wife’s medical texts suggests masturbation (if a sexual partner was not available) as a conservative treatment for prostate enlargement in lieu of surgery or medication, in mild cases of benign prostatic hyperplasia. While “benign”, the symptoms can be quite annoying, including getting up 4 or 5 times a night to go to the bathroom.

On that subject, I leave it to the individual, his confessor and his conscience, but I can imagine many men would prefer it to the potential side effects of medication or surgery. In my case medication would not be an option for me due to another medical condition, and with surgery there’s a very real risk of impotence and incontinence, neither of which are particularly pleasant prospects.

You just contradicted yourself; 2352 says:

Hence:

Good idea, he might be able to teach you a thing or two about moral culpability in the face of habitual sin and the three requirements for sin to be mortal, on how not to form judgement about other’s circumstances in the way you have just done, and on how the proper place to discern culpability is in the confessional, between penitent and priest, not in the anonymity of an Internet forum.

^^This. You said exactly what I was thinking

 

[thistle]

I don’t think Onan was masturbating when he “spilled his seed on the ground” ; he was having sexual intercourse with the wife of his dead brother at his father’s instructions. He did this (withdrew at ejaculation) because he didn’t want his sister-in-law to have his son who would then inherit his father’s wealth. The whole story is one of debauchery but there is no masturbation.

Mortal sin? I think not!!! Something that is as natural as breathing in and breathing out - this is one of those unfounded “sins” - if it feels good it must be a sin.

It is discussed in the Catechism as a sin against chastity - “an inherently selfish act, devoid of love.” That certainly makes it sound bad, but a mortal sin? The equivalent of murder?

Other than the stretch of Onanism, which is pretty rediculous, is there any scriptural basis for this “mortal sin”?

The Youth Catechism of the Catholic Church says, “The Church does not demonize masturbation, but warns against trivializing it.” and goes on about the dangers of lewd pictures etc. on the internet.

Your comments are rejecting the teachings of the Catholic Church but its hard to tell from your profile if you are Catholic or not.

 

[Phil_Marinus]

Your comments are rejecting the teachings of the Catholic Church but its hard to tell from your profile if you are Catholic or not.

I am not a student of the Bible,but I have read Quiet a bit of it, I’m certainly no authority
on any part of it, but am interested where and in how many places in the Bible where it states Thou shall not play with one self… not interested in being quoted in writings outside of the Bible… if someone could inform me I would be very appreciative.

 

[thistle]

I am not a student of the Bible,but I have read Quiet a bit of it, I’m certainly no authority
on any part of it, but am interested where and in how many places in the Bible where it states Thou shall not play with one self… not interested in being quoted in writings outside of the Bible… if someone could inform me I would be very appreciative.

I don’t understand your comment. If you really are a Catholic then you know that Sola Scriptura is false.
The Church was given authority in matters of faith and morals and it teaches through Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and The Magisterium.

CCC 2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”

You may also refer to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) document, Persona Humana section 9.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19751229_persona-humana_en.html

 

[O_Sapientia]

There is absolutely no medical necessity to masturbate as there is no medical necessity to discharge semen. Nocturnal emissions are a result of sexual arousal in sleep, nothing more, nothing less. And scientifically there is absolutely no evidence that frequency of masturbation effects the frequency of nocturnal emissions. There is a large body of men that will go through their entire lives without a nocturnal emission regardless of frequency of masturbation just as there is a large body of men that masturbate and still experience nocturnal emissions.

Masturbation is of grave matter and is a serious offence against God. One’s moral culpability is subjective depending upon one’s situation. But it certainly meets one of the three necessities for a mortal sin.

The offense is always grave, our own state after participating in the act cannot be so clearly defined.

I can understand where the OP is coming from. Some people never have nocturnal emissions. One of my wife’s medical texts suggests masturbation (if a sexual partner was not available) as a conservative treatment for prostate enlargement in lieu of surgery or medication, in mild cases of benign prostatic hyperplasia. While “benign”, the symptoms can be quite annoying, including getting up 4 or 5 times a night to go to the bathroom.

On that subject, I leave it to the individual, his confessor and his conscience, but I can imagine many men would prefer it to the potential side effects of medication or surgery.

Then the appropriate response would be to suffer going to the bathroom a few times a night, rather than committing a grievously offensive act to spare one the trouble of walking two meters to the toilet. Aborting a feotus in instances of sparing the mother’s health remains a deplorable and evil act, masturbating to alleviate a medical discomfort also remains a deplorable and evil act.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
OS.

 

[OraLabora]

Then the appropriate response would be to suffer going to the bathroom a few times a night, rather than committing a grievously offensive act to spare one the trouble of walking two meters to the toilet.

Sir (or is it Madam) do you have ANY idea what it is like to be unable to have a full night’s sleep because of this, then have to wake up, drive 100 km to work, put in a full day’s work that requires a high degree of mental concentration, and then drive 100 km home at 6 pm, often on icy and snowy roads that equally require your full attention?

Until you can walk (or drive) a mile in my shoes, I suggest you mind your own business and let those who suffer this issue work it out in the confessional.

 

[Phil_Marinus]

I don’t understand your comment. If you really are a Catholic then you know that Sola Scriptura is false.
The Church was given authority in matters of faith and morals and it teaches through Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and The Magisterium.

CCC 2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”

You may also refer to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) document, Persona Humana section 9.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19751229_persona-humana_en.html

I really don’t think I asked an unreasonable question… I didn’t ask questions of styles of self stimulation… I just asked where does it say in the Bible ?

 

[O_Sapientia]

Sir (or is it Madam) do you have ANY idea what it is like to be unable to have a full night’s sleep because of this, then have to wake up, drive 100 km to work, put in a full day’s work that requires a high degree of mental concentration, and then drive 100 km home at 6 pm, often on icy and snowy roads that equally require your full attention?

Until you can walk (or drive) a mile in my shoes, I suggest you mind your own business and let those who suffer this issue work it out in the confessional.

It is sir, sir.

No I have never experienced your particular trial. But hardship and trial is universal to all men and there is a Catholic response to trial and hardship. It is suffering in union with Christ and His Mother. I confess that my original post may certainly have came across as unsympathetic and rather harsh. I do apologise for my poor choice of words. But I stand by the principle I outlined.

Abortion is always evil, it is always a grave offense and is never permissible even to save the life of the mother. Masturbation is also a severely grave matter and is not permissible to alleviate suffering. It is an objectively grave offense in all circumstances. It is the age old question. “If you could go back in time and kill Hitler as a baby, would you?” And the answer remains the same. Absolutely not as that would be a gravely immoral act.

There remains nothing to be worked out in the confessional besides ones own moral culpability. That is between yourself and your priest. But if your priest has told you that the act is permissible in a case of medical necessity then your priest is wrong.

You tell me to “mind my own business” but you posited this medical case as an example of when masturbation may be permissible. I simply responded to your public statement. I had no idea that you yourself suffer with this trial. Again you made that public and invited responses when you did so. The fact that you yourself suffer with this burden has not changed my response except that I will further add that I will pray for you and encourage you to seek another confessor.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
OS.

 

[O_Sapientia]

I am not a student of the Bible,but I have read Quiet a bit of it, I’m certainly no authority
on any part of it, but am interested where and in how many places in the Bible where it states Thou shall not play with one self… not interested in being quoted in writings outside of the Bible… if someone could inform me I would be very appreciative.

I really don’t think I asked an unreasonable question… I didn’t ask questions of styles of self stimulation… I just asked where does it say in the Bible ?

The Bible is not the only source of authority. There is also the Church. It is true that the Bible does not explicitly condemn masturbation. But the Church has and she has grounded her doctrine upon the sexual ethics as outlined in the Scriptures.

Yours in Jesus and Mary,
OS.