Is masturbation a mortal sin under any circumstances?

[JB_Dugan]

When the CCC says “factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability”, does it sound to you like mortal sin? Why do you think that the authors of the CCC felt the need to introduce this phrase?

You are “sugar coating” things Vames.

(CCC 2352) By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. **“Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.”**138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139

Masturbation is a direct violation of the Sixth Commandment, therefore a MORTAL SIN.

Now if you want to be "pastoral’ and “ease” someone out or their sinful ways…that’s fine…as long as they are painfully aware that their immortal soul is in serious danger.

Honestly…“factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability” …sounds like it would be OK for a young couple to engage in pre-marital sex because she would only get “slightly pregnant”.

 

[etaperseus]

Im new to CAF, and as my first post, Id like to share a really honest and brave article on this issue we are discussing in this thread:

devinrose.heroicvirtuecreations.com/blog/overcoming-sexual-addiction/

 

[OraLabora]

You are “sugar coating” things Vames.

(CCC 2352) By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. **“Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.”**138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139

You left out an important paragraph in CCC 2352:

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

Hence reduce culpability to a venial sin.

Masturbation is a direct violation of the Sixth Commandment, therefore a MORTAL SIN.

Therefore grave matter, as the CCC points out.

Now if you want to be "pastoral’ and “ease” someone out or their sinful ways…that’s fine…as long as they are painfully aware that their immortal soul is in serious danger. .

The Church does seem to think there are pastoral considerations that reduce culpability. She included it in an official document.

Honestly…“factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability” …sounds like it would be OK for a young couple to engage in pre-marital sex because she would only get “slightly pregnant”.

Do you place yourself above the CCC? Have you looked at who approved the Catechism of the Catholic Church? Please don’t impose a burden on folks that the Church herself does not impose. The proper place to determine moral culpability is in the confessional with a priest, not based on the opinion of someone who only quotes part of a text on the Internet.

 

[JB_Dugan]

Good idea, he might be able to teach you a thing or two about moral culpability in the face of habitual sin and the three requirements for sin to be mortal, on how not to form judgement about other’s circumstances in the way you have just done, and on how the proper place to discern culpability is in the confessional, between penitent and priest, not in the anonymity of an Internet forum.

Do you see where this is going…???

We now have at least two posts on this thread with admissions that a grave sin has essentially been Okayed by confessors…and still the posters are having concerns about this.

I am left wondering if one could apply the “factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability” to the use of a prostitute. After all that would be more fun than self abuse.

 

[JB_Dugan]

You left out an important paragraph in CCC 2352:

.

Actually Vames left out the important part of CCC 2352 and focused on the “factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability”, I was just completing the entire text.

 

[adawgj]

Do people grow out of it and stop naturally?

 

[stinkcat_14]

I am left wondering if one could apply the “factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability” to the use of a prostitute. After all that would be more fun than self abuse.

It would seem to reason that if the Church thought that there were “factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability” of patronizing prostitutes then it would be in the Catechism.

 

[Don_Juan]

Do you see where this is going…???

We now have at least two posts on this thread with admissions that a grave sin has essentially been Okayed by confessors…and still the posters are having concerns about this.

I am left wondering if one could apply the “factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability” to the use of a prostitute. After all that would be more fun than self abuse.

This is what the Vatican says about prostitution and those factors don’t apply, read the last phrase.

2355 Prostitution does injury to the dignity of the person who engages in it, reducing the person to an instrument of sexual pleasure. the one who pays sins gravely against himself: he violates the chastity to which his Baptism pledged him and defiles his body, the temple of the Holy Spirit.139 Prostitution is a social scourge. It usually involves women, but also men, children, and adolescents (The latter two cases involve the added sin of scandal.). While it is always gravely sinful to engage in prostitution, the imputability of the offense can be attenuated by destitution, blackmail, or social pressure.

 

[OraLabora]

Do you see where this is going…???

We now have at least two posts on this thread with admissions that a grave sin has essentially been Okayed by confessors…and still the posters are having concerns about this.

I am left wondering if one could apply the “factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability” to the use of a prostitute. After all that would be more fun than self abuse.

There’s quite a gulf between “okaying” a grave sin and saying that “in the circumstances, one is not culpable of mortal sin”.

There’s also a wide gulf between masturbation, which hurts only one’s own soul, and fornication (whether with a prostitute or anyone else) that draws another into our sin and contributes to putting their soul at risk as well. There are degrees of gravity when it comes to grave sin: abortion is murder, masturbation isn’t.

Again, the authors of the CCC, approved by John Paul II, deemed it fitting to provide priests with pastoral guidance regarding culpability, for this particular sin. It would therefore also seem fitting that priests will do their best to try to apply this discernment to the individual circumstances of their penitents, and penitents try their best to follow their confessor’s advice in their efforts to overcome this sin.

Either we have trust in the Church and her wisdom as well as the wisdom of her pastors up to and including the Holy Father who approved the CCC, or we don’t. If we don’t, perhaps it would be appropriate to call ourselves “Protestant”.

Here’s good advice from a wise old confessor: we should try our best to overcome our sins and bad habits, but not become over-scrupulous to the point that we become (the French term he used is “crispé”) so uptight that we become miserable for everyone around us; God expects our best effort, but realizes we’re human and will often if not usually fall short of a perfect result; He also realizes that every person has different temptations and abilities to overcome them. The effort of an addict who manages to renounce his addiction only once may have more value in His eyes than someone who was never tempted by the same addiction and lived a lifetime without ever committing the same sin, because for the addict, it took much effort to avoid it once whereas it is no effort for the one who never commits this sin.

Scrupulosity in thinking our every sin is “mortal” when a wise confessor tells us they aren’t, is one of Satan’s classic traps to drive us into despair and away from our faith.

Overcoming this sin starts with self-acceptance and trust in God’s mercy, and acceptance of the fact that without His mercy and redemption we are powerless to overcome our sinful habits by sheer willpower alone. Only then, when we present ourselves humbly to God, can an influx of His grace give us the strength to, if not become perfect, become better.

 

[thistle]

The CCC opens the door considerably wider, so your belief should remain just that, a belief that governs your conscience and behaviour.

For someone approaching a priest in the confessional, and the priest councils the penitent that he’s not mortally culpable in the circumstances, and advises him it’s not necessary to confess it every week as it can lead to scrupulosity, would you recommend he listen to the priest’s advice, or yours? Is your belief above the Church’s as stated in the CCC?

I think you’ll find the CCC says there might be and not there are mitigating circumstances.
Frankly, in my view, these so-called mitigating factors are just people looking for excuses to continue sinning.

 

[Bookcat]

Yes it is always grave matter for mortal sin. It is never is “ok” to do so.

 

[OraLabora]

I think you’ll find the CCC says there might be and not there are mitigating circumstances.

There are mitigating circumstances. They may or may not be applicable to an individual’s situation. For someone who says “I know this is a grave sin”, and “I don’t care I’m going to do it anyway”, there probably aren’t. For a man who lost a beloved spouse, and has terrific anxiety and frustration over it, there probably are. For a poorly catechized 14 y.o. kid with raging hormones, there probably are. For an addict, there probably are.

It’s really not up to us to judge someone else’s case. If we, as individuals, have a doubt about our culpability in our own particular situation, then we need to take it to confession. In fact we are obliged to take grave sins to confession. But we can’t advise an individual on a form whether his culpability is mortal or not. That’s above our pay grade.

The best advice to give here is take it to confession! The priest is trained to discern culpability. Then follow his advice unless it is completely off the wall. For serious cases of addiction, in addition seek professional help, preferably from a Catholic or Catholic-friendly psychiatrist or psychologist.

 

[GangGreen]

Why is it that people are so obsessed with this subject ?

Why? Because it’s an epidemic. I’m sure if you polled the average person between the ages of 13 and 40, the amount of them who masturbate regularly (daily, weekly, monthly) is extremely high. Many people get into the habit and can never break it. Some people break out of it, many do not. It’s even worse when you have married people who do it, especially when they use pornography as well. There’s a reason why pornography is a multi-billion dollar industry and that’s not even counting the amount of people who watch it for free on the internet… and it’s not just men and it includes many Catholics as well. Many of whom probably don’t think anything negatively of it.

 

[vames]

You are “sugar coating” things Vames.

I quoted the paragraph simply because you said: “Is masturbation a mortal sin under any circumstances? Yes!”. If you consider the paragraph, it says that is not always a mortal sin, not that it is never a mortal sin. For anyone to be able to “sugarcoat” things, as you said, it would mean that the paragraph that I quoted contradicts the first paragraph of CCC 2352, which isn’t true.

I asked you: Why do you think that the authors of the CCC felt the need to introduce the phrase about “factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability”? You didn’t answer. There are degrees of moral responsibility and the Church acknowledges that, precisely to help people avoid the danger of scrupulosity and despair and to help people refrain from judging others based on a single criterion - grave matter. The Church doesn’t define mortal sin by using only this criterion, any catechized person knows that.

 

[JB_Dugan]

I quoted the paragraph simply because you said: “Is masturbation a mortal sin under any circumstances? Yes!”. If you consider the paragraph, it says that is not always a mortal sin, not that it is never a mortal sin. For anyone to be able to “sugarcoat” things, as you said, it would mean that the paragraph that I quoted contradicts the first paragraph of CCC 2352, which isn’t true.

I asked you: Why do you think that the authors of the CCC felt the need to introduce the phrase about “factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability”? You didn’t answer.

I didn’t answer because the U.S. Council of Bishops TRANSLATED The New Catechism from French (which was translated from Latin) back in 1992. They didn’t AUTHOR the Catechism…although there may have been some miss-translation.

For instance:

The final phrase of this paragraph (2352 in the official Vatican version) which presently reads:

“. . .force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability.”

This phase will be changed to read:

force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that can lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

Now the word “extenuate” adds another meaning to the paragraph and is not defined as: “reduce to a minimum”.

Miss-translations and editorial mistakes are nothing new.
lifesitenews.com/news/youth-catechism-also-wrong-on-euthanasia-other-religions-vatican-admits/

I am not rejecting the Catechism. Nor am I skeptical. But remember…

“This new catechism was written in the first place for bishops, who have the overall responsibility for the teaching of the faith in their respective local churches. Of course the bishops share this responsibility with pastors, teachers, catechists and also with writers, editors and publishers of catechetical materials. There is a certain risk in saying that this is a catechism for bishops, of course,** not that we might not feel at times the need to take a refresher course in the basics**.”— Archbishop William J. Levada

Since Vatican II there has been a “pastoral” movement in the American Catholic Church.
Emphasis is on “feelings”, tolerance, acceptance, and “let your conscience be your guide”.

There is nothing wrong with feelings, acceptance, tolerance, or a well examined conscience but “fire and brimstone” has been forgotten.

How this is working our spiritually…I don’t know. But I do know that many Catholics have walked away from the Church and fewer people are converting to Catholicism.

So…is masturbation a mortal sin under any circumstances??? NO…according to the catechism.

Sadly I think that is dangerous… because if I confessed that sin to my confessor and he told me, that under those circumstances, is was only a venial sin…that would be the last time I ever confessed it…and the frequency would definitely increase.

 

[vames]

Now the word “extenuate” adds another meaning to the paragraph and is not defined as: “reduce to a minimum”.

Where and when did “extenuate” appear? The current English version posted on vatican.va (“lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum”) corresponds to all the other versions, according to the same site:

Latin
Ad aequum iudicium de responsabilitate morali subiectorum efformandum et ad pastoralem actionem recte ducendam, perpendentur immaturitas affectiva, vis habituum contractorum, angustiae status vel alia elementa psychica vel socialia, quae possunt moralem** minuere, fortasse etiam ad minimum reducere**, culpabilitatem.

French
Pour former un jugement équitable sur la responsabilité morale des sujets et pour orienter l’action pastorale, on tiendra compte de l’immaturité affective, de la force des habitudes contractées, de l’état d’angoisse ou des autres facteurs psychiques ou sociaux qui peuvent atténuer, voire même réduire au minimum la culpabilité morale.

Spanish
Para emitir un juicio justo acerca de la responsabilidad moral de los sujetos y para orientar la acción pastoral, ha de tenerse en cuenta la inmadurez afectiva, la fuerza de los hábitos contraídos, el estado de angustia u otros factores psíquicos o sociales que pueden atenuar o tal vez reducir al mínimo la culpabilidad moral.

Portuguese
Para formar um juízo justo sobre a responsabilidade moral dos sujeitos, e para orientar a acção pastoral, deverá ter-se em conta a imaturidade afectiva, a força de hábitos contraídos, o estado de angústia e outros factores psíquicos ou sociais que podem atenuar, ou até reduzir ao mínimo, a culpabilidade moral.

And if the CCC was (indeed) “written in the first place for bishops”, for the pastoral practice, it’s interesting to compare it with YouCat, written precisely for young people:

Question 409
Is Masturbation an offense against love?

Masturbation is an offense against love, because it makes the excitement of sexual pleasure an end in itself and uncouples it from the holistic unfolding of love between a man and a women. That is why “sex with yourself” is a contradiction in terms.

The Church does not demonize masturbation, but she warns against trivializing it. In fact many young people and adults are in danger of becoming isolated in their consumption of lewd pictures, films, and Internet services instead of finding love in a personal relationship. Loneliness can lead to a blind alley in which masturbation becomes an addiction. Living by the motto ‘“For sex I do not need anyone; i will have it myself, however and whenever I need it” makes nobody happy.

Sadly I think that is dangerous… because if I confessed that sin to my confessor and he told me, that under those circumstances, is was only a venial sin…that would be the last time I ever confessed it…and the frequency would definitely increase.

If you don’t have anything in common with the cases described by OraLabora in post #32, if you confessed that sin to your confessor, the probability to be told that your culpability is “reduced to a minimum” is low. But we should understand that such cases exist and that the Church can’t measure them with the same measure applied to the standard case of a fully grown adult who enjoys good physical and mental health and lives a relatively comfortable life. Because it’s simply not fair.

We should be glad that the Church is trying to understand and help people, like a mother does, instead of mechanically threaten with fire and brimstone, regardless of the particular situation of those who masturbate, as if instilling fear were the most efficient way of approaching people. If she did that, it surely wouldn’t stimulate many people to convert and stay Catholic.

 

[billcu1]

I am single and I am aware that the body needs to release whatever does not need, but this is only possible for me is through masturbation.

I started masturbating early, at 13 years old and my body never got used to having nocturnal emissions. About two years ago I was able to quit for more than a year but I never ejaculated in my sleep, finally I decided that it was too long and did it again.

The good part was that I finally learned to self control, but since then I last between 2 weeks and 2 months without masturbating and I take a confession within the next 3 days.

I understand that watching pornography while doing it is a mortal sin, and so is having lustful thoughts about other people. But after 3 or 4 weeks I can do it without watching any pornographic images or having any lustful thoughts about other women, just by knowing that I need to release.

The last time I confessed that I masturbated the priest told me that it is a good idea to quit decrease the frequency instead of stopping completely.

Am I still in lust if I don’t watch pornography and do it without thinking of other people or remembering old images?

The simple answer to your question is no. It’s a grave matter. There are culpability issues such as habit, maturity, emotional stress and such.

 

[JB_Dugan]

Where and when did “extenuate” appear? The current English version posted on vatican.va (“lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum”) corresponds to all the other versions, according to the same site:

MODIFICATIONS
from the Edito Typica
scborromeo.org/ccc/updates.htm

If you don’t have anything in common with the cases described by OraLabora in post #32, if you confessed that sin to your confessor, the probability to be told that your culpability is “reduced to a minimum” is low. But we should understand that such cases exist and that the Church can’t measure them with the same measure applied to the standard case of a fully grown adult who enjoys good physical and mental health and lives a relatively comfortable life. Because it’s simply not fair.

We should be glad that the Church is trying to understand and help people, like a mother does, instead of mechanically threaten with fire and brimstone, regardless of the particular situation of those who masturbate, as if instilling fear were the most efficient way of approaching people. If she did that, it surely wouldn’t stimulate many people to convert and stay Catholic.

Perhaps I’m not looking at this subject properly.

Maybe it’s because, as a young man (and not a saint), I didn’t have much of a problem resisting the temptation to masturbate after Fr. Reilly literally sacred the be-Jesus out of me in confession. After that “little discussion” and a whole Rosary for penance, I could have cared less about my degree of culpability.

“It is a most grave and abominable sin in the sight of God and man; it lowers man to the condition of the brute; it drags him into many other sins and vices; and it provokes the most terrible chastisements both in this world and in the next.”

Those weren’t Fr. Reilly’s words exactly…but close. I think he got it from the Catechism of Pius X.

My oh my…how things have changed over a generation or two…

I think a little fear is a good thing. What we are doing now is not exactly setting records in the “stimulate many people to convert and stay Catholic.” department. Those numbers are way down.

 

[TiggerS]

CCC 2352 (link above @Clearwater): “To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.”

Excellent response
Objectively, masturbation is always a subject of grave matter. However, to assess the degree of sin, two other conditions are necessary at the same time:

1. Full knowledge
2. Full Consent - what is quoted above in the quote box might lessen full consent and therefore mortal sin is not present since the “full” in “full consent” is not present.

Rather often I think, we Catholics can say “mortal sin” when what we should state is “grave matter” and the first condition (of the three necessary conditions) for mortal sin.

In the final analysis for every single one of us, God is our Judge. “Not all who say Lord! Lord! shall enter into My Kingdom”. Some can find this a quite frightening statement until one comes to understand - at least in some measure, The Loving Mercy of God. Every single one of us at Judgement will direly need to very humbly beg His Loving Mercy.

Psalm 51 "3For I know my iniquity, and my sin is always before me.
To thee only have I sinned, and have done evil before thee: that thou mayst be justified in thy words and mayst overcome when thou art judged.
For behold I was conceived in iniquities; and in sins did my mother conceive me. "

 

[vames]

I think a little fear is a good thing.

I agree. But does “scaring the be-Jesus” out of a teenager seem to you a good and honest thing to do? Especially when this is accomplished by telling lies? To say that masturbation is a most grave and abominable sin that provokes the most terrible chastisements both in this world and in the next is a lie that can only lead someone to think that masturbation is akin to murder, if not even harder to forgive. Then what to say about rape, abortion, adultery, torture, murder, if a priest wants to keep the proportions? That God is so angered by these sins that He unleashes cancers and tsunamis and strikes the culprits dead?

I hope it’s clear that I’m not an advocate of masturbation. It’s a sad, unfulfilling thing both for men and women. One can become very selfish, lose the self-respect and lose the interest for finding love in a personal relationship and in marital life - what the text of YouCat says above is true. But I think that the Church is wise to explain things rationally and to consider all the circumstances, instead of making people fear and hate their own bodies and fall prey to desperation (there was an incredible thread on CAF where a young poster said that antidepressants reduce the sex drive, so why can’t people take such pills to avoid masturbation; he didn’t know or care about the side effects of these drugs on an otherwise healthy person). And I don’t think that today there are few practicing Catholics in the world because they are not scared anymore in the way your priest did.