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STT
Guest
Yes.
Of course yes. The response is an action due to experience.
What is sensation?
Then you are living in old paradigm which you can never resolve mind-body problem.
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Michael_Mayo
Guest
I am living with current definitions.Yes.
Of course yes. The response is an action due to experience.
What is sensation?
Then you are living in old paradigm which you can never resolve mind-body problem.
What is sensation?
Definition of sensation
1a : a mental process (as seeing, hearing, or smelling) resulting from the immediate external stimulation of a sense organ often as distinguished from a conscious awareness of the sensory process — compare perception
b : awareness (as of heat or pain) due to stimulation of a sense organ
c : a state of consciousness due to internal bodily changes a sensation of hunger
d : an indefinite bodily feeling a sensation of buoyancy
2: something (as a physical stimulus, sense-datum, or afterimage) that causes or is the object of sensation
3a : a state of excited interest or feeling their elopement caused a sensation
b : a cause of such excitement the show was the musical sensation of the season; especially : one (as a person) in some respect exceptional or outstanding the rookie hitting sensation of the American League
Do you believe a rock has a mental process? Interest in its falling? Feels the fall?
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Vonsalza
Guest
STT uses a lot of “custom” definitions.
Thus while a lot of what he/she discusses is potentially interesting, any “progress” made is of very little actual use.
Thus while a lot of what he/she discusses is potentially interesting, any “progress” made is of very little actual use.
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STT
Guest
I see.I am living with current definitions.
What is sensation?
Definition of sensation
1a : a mental process (as seeing, hearing, or smelling) resulting from the immediate external stimulation of a sense organ often as distinguished from a conscious awareness of the sensory process — compare perception
b : awareness (as of heat or pain) due to stimulation of a sense organ
c : a state of consciousness due to internal bodily changes a sensation of hunger
d : an indefinite bodily feeling a sensation of buoyancy
2: something (as a physical stimulus, sense-datum, or afterimage) that causes or is the object of sensation
3a : a state of excited interest or feeling their elopement caused a sensation
b : a cause of such excitement the show was the musical sensation of the season; especially : one (as a person) in some respect exceptional or outstanding the rookie hitting sensation of the American League
A rock does not have brain so it could not have mental process. It however experience the existence of other particle and react to it.Do you believe a rock has a mental process? Interest in its falling? Feels the fall?
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davidv
Guest
What makes the rock aware of this experience?I see.
A rock does not have brain so it could not have mental process. It however experience the existence of other particle and react to it.
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STT
Guest
Consciousness is the basic property of matter.What makes the rock aware of this experience?
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Michael_Mayo
Guest
What is your evidence? Certainly not because the rock falls. Gravity acts on it and it responds without mentation. It does not act. It is acted upon.Consciousness is the basic property of matter.
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STT
Guest
Lets put facts together: (1) Mind-body problem, (2) A physical state, consciousness, cannot experience another physical state, thought for example and (3) Of course because the rock reacts.What is your evidence? Certainly not because the rock falls. Gravity acts on it and it responds without mentation. It does not act. It is acted upon.
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Michael_Mayo
Guest
I think we are better off taking an entirely different approach. It has become evident that matter is by no means as real as it seems, Rather, it is a structure of energy. We are only beginning to understand the acts and creation of this energy and it begins to appear as the motion of power of a consciousness that might account for things like quantum entanglement.Lets put facts together: (1) Mind-body problem, (2) A physical state, consciousness, cannot experience another physical state, thought for example and (3) Of course because the rock reacts.
But this would have to be a consciousness far different from our standard understanding. This is a consciousness that takes the appearance of inconscious, unconscious, and subconscious. A consciousness that seems to become the opposite of itself. Only through a long process of evolution do minerals and hydrocarbons become thinking beings with volition, motivation and feeling.
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Michael_Mayo
Guest
I am reminded of YHWH “I Am Who Am”. Or “I Am Who I Will Be”.
If God is existence then all existence is consciousness. Our being is only a relatively independent borrowing of God’s who alone is real.
If God is existence then all existence is consciousness. Our being is only a relatively independent borrowing of God’s who alone is real.
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STT
Guest
I think it is better to distinguish between matter and energy. Matter is the basic substance which builds our reality and energy allows interaction between pieces of matter.I think we are better off taking an entirely different approach. It has become evident that matter is by no means as real as it seems, Rather, it is a structure of energy. We are only beginning to understand the acts and creation of this energy and it begins to appear as the motion of power of a consciousness that might account for things like quantum entanglement.
But this would have to be a consciousness far different from our standard understanding. This is a consciousness that takes the appearance of inconscious, unconscious, and subconscious. A consciousness that seems to become the opposite of itself. Only through a long process of evolution do minerals and hydrocarbons become thinking beings with volition, motivation and feeling.
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Michael_Mayo
Guest
Matter is not a basic substance at all. An atom is a filed of energy. Same with subatomic. What we call matter is one form of energy. To distinguish them is like distinguishing ice from H2O.I think it is better to distinguish between matter and energy. Matter is the basic substance which builds our reality and energy allows interaction between pieces of matter.
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STT
Guest
There is a distinction between filed of matter and field of energy in field theory.Matter is not a basic substance at all. An atom is a filed of energy. Same with subatomic. What we call matter is one form of energy. To distinguish them is like distinguishing ice from H2O.
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Michael_Mayo
Guest
How does that distinction serve the point you are trying to make about matter having consciousness?There is a distinction between filed of matter and field of energy in field theory.
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STT
Guest
I was just trying to mention that matter is not energy.How does that distinction serve the point you are trying to make about matter having consciousness?
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Michael_Mayo
Guest
It is condensed energy, a form of energy. When you light a match, light and heat do not come from nowhere. It is solidified in matter. But if that distinction remains important to you. Do you also believe energy has consciousness?I was just trying to mention that matter is not energy.
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AgnosticBoy
Guest
Questions…The only thing that we cannot argue against is that we experience, we are conscious. There are two scenarios available here: (1) Matter is primary and is conscious or (2) Consciousness is primary and matter is a manifestation of consciousness, matter is an illusion.
Lets discuss (1) first. I know for sure that I am conscious, I could doubt about people. What makes me me is mere matter. What makes me different from a stone is the formation of matter. Formation however cannot cause consciousness. Therefore matter is conscious.
Lets discuss (2) now. Consciousness is primary. Consciousness is however immaterial and has no location therefore one should be able to experience all forms if s/he is consciousness. Our experiences however is bounded. This means that we are not consciousness. Therefore consciousness cannot be primary (the example of soul is related to second scenario).
Why does consciousness cease at death if the matter that made up my body still exists?
How can we test that a plastic bottle is conscious?
Under your logic, a person’s arm is conscious. So if an arm is amputated, why is it that awareness or consciousness only stays with our brain and not with the arm?
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STT
Guest
No, the radiation is due to movement of on electron from higher orbital to lower orbital.It is condensed energy, a form of energy. When you light a match, light and heat do not come from nowhere. It is solidified in matter. But if that distinction remains important to you.
Matter experience energy.Do you also believe energy has consciousness?
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STT
Guest
Well, that is a little complicated. We either keep our identity (sense of Iness) and memory after death or not. We undergo a change from one state of being alive to another state in the first case. Think of matter which has several layers. An inner layer comes to play when other layer dies, malfunctions. Our memory and identity to my understanding is stored in very inner layer of mater so it doesn’t get destroyed upon death if the first scenario is true. In the second case we lose our identity and memory and what is left is mere matter which is subject of decay.Questions…
Why does consciousness cease at death if the matter that made up my body still exists?
How can you test that a person is conscious? There is no way to experiment consciousness since experiment is the result of experience. Based on my logic everything that respond to an stimuli is conscious. Consciousness cannot emerge. It cannot be primary either. So we are left with one option, matter is conscious.How can we test that a plastic bottle is conscious?
Because that is the brain which gives you identity (sense of Iness), memory, feeling and thought. In simple word, that is your brain that allows you to have all these high level sort of experiences. High level experience can emerge in a system in which the basic constitutes are conscious. This I have discuss it in depth in another thread.Under your logic, a person’s arm is conscious. So if an arm is amputated, why is it that awareness or consciousness only stays with our brain and not with the arm?
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AgnosticBoy
Guest
So there is life after death or we’re just dust. The latter scenario is inconsistent with your view.Well, that is a little complicated. We either keep our identity (sense of Iness) and memory after death or not. We undergo a change from one state of being alive to another state in the first case. Think of matter which has several layers. An inner layer comes to play when other layer dies, malfunctions. Our memory and identity to my understanding is stored in very inner layer of mater so it doesn’t get destroyed upon death if the first scenario is true. In the second case we lose our identity and memory and what is left is mere matter which is subject of decay.
How do you know that rocks are conscious, as you stated earlier, if you can not test to determine if they are conscious? What is the scientific worth of your view, if it is not testable in any way?How can you test that a person is conscious? There is no way to experiment consciousness since experiment is the result of experience.
As for humans, it depends on how you define consciousness. If consciousness involves being aware of one’s surroundings, being able to think, solve problems, etc. Then there is a way to test for all of this. Have the person describe their surroundings. Have the person take an IQ test, do EKGs, fMRIs, etc.
Consciousness involves awareness. What is the arm “aware” of? In what way is it aware?Because that is the brain which gives you identity (sense of Iness), memory, feeling and thought. In simple word, that is your brain that allows you to have all these high level sort of experiences. High level experience can emerge in a system in which the basic constitutes are conscious. This I have discuss it in depth in another thread.
You also claimed that the basic constituents of consciousness (neurons?) are conscious. This raises more questions. For starters, do you have any empirical evidence to support for this particular claim? There is also a phenomenal character to consciousness. Is that present at the level of neurons?
It just seems that the type of consciousness that you’re referring to is not the same type of consciousness in sentient creatures, so your reasoning doesn’t follow.
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