n. 204-207.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Ah thanks. Found it on Vatican website. Terms are important and the candidate is not a catechumen.n. 204-207.
So aside from the obvious that one week before joining the church the op decided to hit snooze is not a prudent decision. I am confused as to why my children who are baptized but not confirmed are held to church law but a baptized person one week away from full confirmation is not…
The law addresses that. Children below the age of reason, while part of the faithful, are not bound to the law either.Ah thanks. Found it on Vatican website. Terms are important and the candidate is not a catechumen.
So aside from the obvious that one week before joining the church the op decided to hit snooze is not a prudent decision. I am confused as to why my children who are baptized but not confirmed are held to church law but a baptized person one week away from full confirmation is not…
A baptized person a week away from full reception is not Catholic because, again, the law is clear: those who were baptized into the Catholic Church or received into it. If one has not yet been received into it, then the law does not bind.
CIC 11 pretty much has all this covered.
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Don_Ruggero
Guest
Children who have been baptised in the Catholic Church are Catholic. Candidates are not Catholic – until, through the prescribed liturgical rite, they are received into the Catholic Church.Ah thanks. Found it on Vatican website. Terms are important and the candidate is not a catechumen.
So aside from the obvious that one week before joining the church the op decided to hit snooze is not a prudent decision. I am confused as to why my children who are baptized but not confirmed are held to church law but a baptized person one week away from full confirmation is not…
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NeedImprovement
Guest
NeedImprovement,
Deacon Jeff beat me to the punch!
(I’d still quibble a little, and change #1 to address the fact that one deliberately skips Mass when he has been excused from the obligation!)
therefore…
(This speaks to your assertion about ‘standards’ – objectively speaking, when all these subjective considerations have been met (i.e., full knowledge, deliberate consent, lack of being excused from the obligation), then one is in a state of mortal sin. Your claim seems to be that objectivity in standards implies a lack of subjectivity in evaluating the situation. That has me scratching my head. Yes, there is an objective standard; yet, one meets (or fails to meet) that objective standard by virtue of his subjective engagement in a situation. To call this an ‘objective situation’ seems to deny that (subjective!) circumstances matter!)
- Objectively speaking, deliberately not attending Mass when one otherwise could have attended is a mortal sin.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
A 14 year old baptized but unconfirmed child is bound by church law but a baptized 35 year old-person who has received catechisis and is being confirmed next week is not, but they can recieve another sacrament ( confession)The law addresses that. Children below the age of reason, while part of the faithful, are not bound to the law either.
A baptized person a week away from full reception is not Catholic because, again, the law is clear: those who were baptized into the Catholic Church or received into it. If one has not yet been received into it, then the law does not bind.
CIC 11 pretty much has all this covered.
It just does not make sense.
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Lormar
Guest
I don’t understand the confession part either.
Yes, it makes sense.A 14 year old baptized but unconfirmed child is bound by church law but a baptized 35 year old-person who has received catechisis and is being confirmed next week is not, but they can recieve another sacrament ( confession)
It just does not make sense.
One is baptized Catholic and above 7 years old. The law binds. Why shouldn’t it?
The other is not Catholic. So the law does not bind. Why should it? When he becomes Catholic next week, then the law will bind.
As to the baptized candidate in the process of being received going to confession, I’m not even sure why that would be an issue, or how this even factors in to the Sunday Mass obligation question. The rite allows, and as the day of reception approaches, even requires the candidate to confess prior to reception.
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Don_Ruggero
Guest
A 14 year old Catholic is bound by Church law.A 14 year old baptized but unconfirmed child is bound by church law but a baptized 35 year old-person who has received catechisis and is being confirmed next week is not, but they can recieve another sacrament ( confession)
It just does not make sense.
A 35 year old non-Catholic is not bound by Church law.
The Church defines who is and who is not obliged by laws that are ecclesiastical
In part, the Church’s determination is derivative from the theological concept of communicatio in sacris and its varying application.
I am sorry it does not make sense to you. The presence or absence of the sacramental character of Confirmation is extraneous to the topic you are analysing, however. You might wish to set that aspect aside as it does not help advance toward any answer you are seeking.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Does the op have to fast and abstain on good Friday? Hmmmm.
No.Does the op have to fast and abstain on good Friday? Hmmmm.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Interesting…
It’s hard to understand how something is ok one day and damnable the next. Confirmation itself does not bind in this way so what does?
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solayan
Guest
Reception into the Church is what does. If you look at the rites, candidates are formally received into the Church before they are Confirmed. It’s not the Confirmation that makes them Catholic, it’s the reception.Interesting…
It’s hard to understand how something is ok one day and damnable the next. Confirmation itself does not bind in this way so what does?
Baptism into the Catholic Church.Interesting…
It’s hard to understand how something is ok one day and damnable the next. Confirmation itself does not bind in this way so what does?
or
Reception into the Catholic Church.
Confirmation is irrelevant to the question.
Confession is irrelevant to the question.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Of course if the op were baptized Catholic that would not apply…Baptism into the Catholic Church.
or
Reception into the Catholic Church.
Confirmation is irrelevant to the question.
Confession is irrelevant to the question.
Correct. But then, all he would need to do is confess and be done with it. He would not be in RCIA.Of course if the op were baptized Catholic that would not apply…
The OP is not baptized Catholic though. So no ecclesiastical laws currently bind him.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Many parishes can run a person who was baptized but not confirmed Catholic through an RCIA program. This happens often in our parish.Correct. But then, all he would need to do is confess and be done with it. He would not be in RCIA.
The OP is not baptized Catholic though. So no ecclesiastical laws currently bind him.
That’s just for catechesis. It does not affect his status as a Catholic.Many parishes can run a person who was baptized but not confirmed Catholic through an RCIA program. This happens often in our parish.
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jmjZelie
Guest
That was true for me. I was baptized Catholic as an infant but never raised in the Faith. When I decided to “convert” and discovered I was already a Catholic, they ran me through the RCIA program for education, but the pastor worked with me and my family one on one in order to make sure I received the sacraments in the right order.Many parishes can run a person who was baptized but not confirmed Catholic through an RCIA program. This happens often in our parish.
First Confession
Con validation (because I had married outside the Church since I had not been raised in the Church)
First Holy Communion
Confirmation
For my husband, he went through the rites in RCIA, which the pastor had me not participate in them. Then he received
First Confession
Con validation
Confirmation
First Holy Communion
And I was expected to immediately obey the laws of the Church, because I was already Catholic, but my husband was not truly obligated until after Confirmation. This mostly applied personally in the case of Lenten fasting and abstinence for him.
So it was interesting, but somewhat confusing. But also exciting!
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Don_Ruggero
Guest
The candidate is validly baptised. Baptism is the gateway to the other sacraments and anyone who is validly baptised could validly receive the other sacraments. Whether it is licit or illicit is a separate issue.I don’t understand the confession part either.
In the case of one who is validly baptised as a non-Catholic, that person is in a state impaired communion with the Roman Church. The relative degree of impaired communion is on a broad continuum. For example, one who is non-Catholic but Orthodox (or equivalent to the Orthodox from the perspective of Rome) may be admitted to Eucharist, Confession or Anointing simply by the person spontaneously asking for it…although they are advised to follow the directives of their own Church on the issue. In the case of Christians of other ecclesial communities, there are norms both in the Code of Canon Law (Universal Law) and in Particular Law that governs how such a matter is to be addressed.
In any event, having established that one who is validly baptised can be validly admitted to the sacraments by a Catholic priest in spite of their impaired communion with Rome, for a candidate, such as the original poster, s/he would be admitted to the sacrament of penance before her/his reception into full communion with the Church so that s/he is in the state of grace for her/his reception, confirmation, and first Communion – which the rite envisions as occurring in one continuous liturgical act. There is a norm of law that obviates what would be suspending the Mass to hear confessions of those who in one instant are received into full communion but then in a subsequent instant are confirmed and in a subsequent instant are given their First Communion.
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