Is Mormonism a Polytheistic religion?

[ParkerD]

Oh, and Parker, you’ve got some fires that need putting out over here…

Cradle2Grave,

I haven’t been following that thread, nor do I feel any need nor a responsibility to join in that conversation. I am supposing by the writing style that the person doing the writing is under age twenty. He has said he is comfortable “speculating” about doctrine. Teenagers are often about “exploring” their world, and trying to find their place in it. It’s a process of mortality that is often called “coming of age”. People do change and mature over time, and learn new things including that they have much to learn, which is a good thing. I have to assume most people learn new things every week about themselves and the world around them. This life is a learning process–a good process to be fully involved in.

 

[catholic-rcia]

catholic-rcia;8189393:

They don’t. Parker has explained his idea of “worshipping Jesus” on other threads. He has said that if one obeys the commandments Jesus gave and therefore prays to the Father in Jesus’ name, then that, by association, constitutes “worshipping Jesus”.

Again, the Mormons have redefined all the words in order to be able to tell

you something that sounds non-threatening and hides the weirdness and un-Christian nature of Mormonism.

I have a challenge for Parker and all the other LDS:

The next time you are called upon to give the opening- or closing prayer at Sacrament Meeting, march up to the ambo and start your prayer with “Dear Lord Jesus…”

See how fast you are dragged into the bishop’s office.

(Of course none of them would ever consider doing such a thing. )

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

I was asked by my LDS brother in law (Not sure why) to say the blessing on the food at my sisters on Christmas Eve. All Mormons accept my wife and I. Maybe 20 attending.

I gave the blessing and then gave thanks to God for his Son. During my prayer I spoke to Jesus, for all that He had done for us by being born into this world to save us, doing the perfect will of the Father in order to save us from our sins… etc…It was Christmas

I did not expect to feel the heaviness in the room during and after my prayer. Not to many spoke to us after, all was well before. First of all have no idea why I was asked to do this. I have yet to ask my brother in law. Should have done that soon after. My sister seemed a bit shocked when he asked me. I probably should have passed this on to one of my nephews. I did begin of course by making the sign of the Cross. I had to as this is what I do, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I think in the end I just felt bad for them, again probably should have passed it on. Maybe I am wrong?

 

[catholic-rcia]

Catholic-RCIA,

I noticed your more recent post addressed to me, and suppose that either you didn’t read this or didn’t understand it. Jesus is God the Son, Emmanuel, “God with us,” Jehovah, Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. To have a conversational relationship with Him does not mean that one needs to pray to Him.

The conversation with you about this seems to show that you haven’t understood my beliefs or my comments. Peace to you.

You are absolutely correct. Worship Jesus, your best friend but not be able to pray to Him.**(Wonderful, Counselor) **Who and what on earth would want to prevent that kind of dialogue? dialogue with Jesus, Prayer to Jesus is directly to the Father is it not? He is the direct line. You cannot pray to the Father accept through Jesus. Do you believe this? That all prayer goes to the Father through Jesus? Yes you can end your prayer to the Father in the name of Jesus, this is good. Yes Jesus showed us how we should pray and of course this is very good and very correct. Do you not know that when you say “thank you, Jesus, for helping me in this.” Or, “Jesus, I love you so very much and am so thankful for all you have done for me.” that you are indeed praying to Jesus? Parker this should be encouraged above all things. This is what is confusing to me. You say you worship Jesus but that you are not allowed to pray to Him. Then you say

“We certainly can feel like we have the kind of relationship with Jesus that results in a conversational approach such as “thank you, Jesus, for helping me in this.” Or, “Jesus, I love you so very much and am so thankful for all you have done for me.” These could be thoughts in the mind–words in the heart” How can this not be prayer? Unless you shut down when speaking to Jesus. Like He is not really present. This is the kind of stuff that is confusing. Can you see that?

God Bless
Rich .

“Jesus is God the Son, Emmanuel, “God with us,” Jehovah, Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.” For me and my Christian faith it is very clear. This is exactly who I Worship and whom I pray to. (Trinity)
**
Please read the following Parker.

Prayer to the Father **

2664 There is no other way of Christian prayer than Christ. Whether our    prayer is communal or personal, vocal or interior, it has access to the    Father only if we pray "in the name" of Jesus. The sacred humanity of    Jesus is therefore the way by which the Holy Spirit teaches us to pray to    God our Father.

** Prayer to Jesus **

2665 The prayer of the Church, nourished by the Word of God and the    celebration of the liturgy, teaches us to pray to the Lord Jesus. Even    though her prayer is addressed above all to the Father, it includes in all    the liturgical traditions forms of prayer addressed to Christ. Certain    psalms, given their use in the Prayer of the Church, and the New Testament    place on our lips and engrave in our hearts prayer to Christ in the form    of invocations: Son of God, Word of God, Lord, Savior, Lamb of God, King,    Beloved Son, Son of the Virgin, Good Shepherd, our Life, our Light, our    Hope, our Resurrection, Friend of mankind.... 

2666 But the one name that contains everything is the one that the Son of    God received in his incarnation: JESUS. The divine name may not be spoken    by human lips, but by assuming our humanity The Word of God hands it over    to us and we can invoke it: "Jesus," "YHWH saves."[16] The name "Jesus"    contains all: God and man and the whole economy of creation and salvation.    To pray "Jesus" is to invoke him and to call him within us. His name is    the only one that contains the presence it signifies. Jesus is the Risen    One, and whoever invokes the name of Jesus is welcoming the Son of God who    loved him and who gave himself up for him.[17] 

2667 This simple invocation of faith developed in the tradition of prayer    under many forms in East and West. The most usual formulation, transmitted    by the spiritual writers of the Sinai, Syria, and Mt. Athos, is the    invocation, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us sinners." It    combines the Christological hymn of Philippians 2:6-11 with the cry of the    publican and the blind men begging for light.[18] By it the heart is    opened to human wretchedness and the Savior's mercy. 

2668 The invocation of the holy name of Jesus is the simplest way of    praying always. When the holy name is repeated often by a humbly attentive    heart, the prayer is not lost by heaping up empty phrases,[19] but holds    fast to the word and "brings forth fruit with patience."[20] This prayer    is possible "at all times" because it is not one occupation among others    but the only occupation: that of loving God, which animates and    transfigures every action in Christ Jesus. 
2669 The prayer of the Church venerates and honors the Heart of Jesus just    as it invokes his most holy name. It adores the incarnate Word and his    Heart which, out of love for men, he allowed to be pierced by our sins.    Christian prayer loves to follow the way of the cross in the Savior's    steps. The stations from the Praetorium to Golgotha and the tomb trace the    way of Jesus, who by his holy Cross has redeemed the world.

 

[ParkerD]

You are absolutely correct. Worship Jesus, your best friend but not be able to pray to Him.**(Wonderful, Counselor) **Who and what on earth would want to prevent that kind of dialogue? dialogue with Jesus, Prayer to Jesus is directly to the Father is it not? He is the direct line. You cannot pray to the Father accept through Jesus. Do you believe this? That all prayer goes to the Father through Jesus? Yes you can end your prayer to the Father in the name of Jesus, this is good. Yes Jesus showed us how we should pray and of course this is very good and very correct. Do you not know that when you say “thank you, Jesus, for helping me in this.” Or, “Jesus, I love you so very much and am so thankful for all you have done for me.” that you are indeed praying to Jesus? Parker this should be encouraged above all things. This is what is confusing to me. You say you worship Jesus but that you are not allowed to pray to Him. Then you say

“We certainly can feel like we have the kind of relationship with Jesus that results in a conversational approach such as “thank you, Jesus, for helping me in this.” Or, “Jesus, I love you so very much and am so thankful for all you have done for me.” These could be thoughts in the mind–words in the heart” How can this not be prayer? Unless you shut down when speaking to Jesus. Like He is not really present. This is the kind of stuff that is confusing. Can you see that?

God Bless
Rich .

Rich,

In real life, when we talk to a “best friend” or a good friend, even if we admire them greatly we aren’t praying to them.

The reasons that LDS members are counseled not to pray to Jesus, and instead to follow the pattern of prayer that He specifically taught (see John 15:15 and John 16:23-24), are logically that

1. a member may begin to feel they have some special relationship with Christ that leads to their own personal disharmony with their own church leaders because they think they “know more”.
2. a member has no reason to think, from the scriptures, that Jesus did not mean what He taught, specifically, about the formal act of prayer to Father in Heaven. There are many reasons for praying in earnest directly to Father in Heaven, knowing that Jesus is our Intercessor all the while.

In John 15:15 we find the use of the word “friend”, which is a perfect way to look at our relationship with Him. He is our Leader to the Father.

If you ever happen to look at the words of hymns in a Latter-day Saint hymnbook, you will certainly find words that show direct communication speaking to the Savior with love and gratitude. He is one’s best Friend if one allows Him to be so. That friendship leads to personal change in our lives, and leads us to follow Him to Father in Heaven. Truly to follow Him.

 

[Jay53]

Cradle2Grave,

I haven’t been following that thread, nor do I feel any need nor a responsibility to join in that conversation. I am supposing by the writing style that the person doing the writing is under age twenty. He has said he is comfortable “speculating” about doctrine. Teenagers are often about “exploring” their world, and trying to find their place in it. It’s a process of mortality that is often called “coming of age”. People do change and mature over time, and learn new things including that they have much to learn, which is a good thing. I have to assume most people learn new things every week about themselves and the world around them. This life is a learning process–a good process to be fully involved in.

I must say that I find it rather peculiar that you feel a need to correct non-LDS’s misinterpretations of LDS beliefs, but not an LDS’s misbeliefs. I somehow doubt that if this was one of your children or a family member that you would just chock it up to him/her “exploring their world” and let them find their place/learn new things on their own without at least attempting to correct any errors in belief that they have.

 

[Miriam1947]

Here is an interesting hymn. Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

youtube.com/watch?v=IdH3bj74yeg

Praise to the man-Joseph Smith
Lyrics from Relief Society Song Book, 1919

JOSEPH SMITH.
1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah.
Jesus’ anointed, "that Prophet and Seer,"
Blessed to open the last dispensation;
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.
CHORUS.
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven,
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain,
Mingling with God’s he can plan for his brethren,
Death cannot conquer the hero again.
2. Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest is his ever great name;
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Stain Illinois[4], while the earth lauds his fame.
Hail to the Prophet, &c.
3. Great is his glory, and endless his priesthood,
Ever and ever the keys he will hold;
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.
Hail to the Prophet, &c.
4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man!
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice,
Millions shall know “brother Joseph” again.
Hail to the Prophet, &c.

 

[rainman10]

That’s interesting. Can you give a few examples of which commandments the LDS church has officially declared permanent and which ones they have officially declared temporal?

He can’t do that, because there no such thing as permanent in Mormonism. Any teaching is subject to change because of new revelation. In Mormonism, Truth does change, when there is a need to change it or redefine it to fit their needs for the current times.

 

[rainman10]

JD,

I commented specifically about Bennett’s having written “the Mormon church teaches” and then using sources that are not sources that reflect that statement.

When Elder McConkie was on assignment giving a talk at BYU or in General Conference or writing for the Ensign, such as the following article:

lds.org/ensign/1971/12/how-to-worship?lang=eng&query=worship+Jesus+Christ+pray+Him

then he could be quoted from that source and it could be truthfully said “the Mormon church teaches”. When he wrote the book Mormon Doctrine, he was not acting on assignment and had no “counsel” situation (he was of the First Council of the Seventy at the time, but acted on his own in the writing of the book as was his personal right to do) where apostles looked at his writing and agreed with it.

The problem comes for an outsider looking in, that they would not understand this situation about “doctrine” as compared with “opinion”. One person can have opinions, place them on paper and even publish them, but that does not make them “doctrine”. The LDS approved scriptures and those manuals that have been specifically reviewed and approved by the Quorum of Twelve Apostles and the First Presidency are sources for “Mormon teachings” or what could be quoted as such.

By the way, I haven’t written that I “pray to Jesus”. I wrote that a person can be in “conversation” with Him–since He is the Good Shepherd, this is consistent with acknowledging that relationship.

So then McKonkie teaches about Mormonism one way, but then believes differently? Why would anyone want to read his books, then, if he is just stating his opinion? Certainly Mormons would not want to, because apparently in his book he does not write about what Mormons really believe, only his opinion.

 

[rainman10]

catholic-rcia;8189393:

They don’t. Parker has explained his idea of “worshipping Jesus” on other threads. He has said that if one obeys the commandments Jesus gave and therefore prays to the Father in Jesus’ name, then that, by association, constitutes “worshipping Jesus”.

Again, the Mormons have redefined all the words in order to be able to tell

you something that sounds non-threatening and hides the weirdness and un-Christian nature of Mormonism.

I have a challenge for Parker and all the other LDS:

The next time you are called upon to give the opening- or closing prayer at Sacrament Meeting, march up to the ambo and start your prayer with “Dear Lord Jesus…”

See how fast you are dragged into the bishop’s office.

(Of course none of them would ever consider doing such a thing. )

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

Is this “free will choice”?

 

[rainman10]

Catholic-RCIA,

I noticed your more recent post addressed to me, and suppose that either you didn’t read this or didn’t understand it. Jesus is one god God the Son, Emmanuel, “God with us,” Jehovah, Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. To have a conversational relationship with Him does not mean that one needs to pray to Him.

The conversation with you about this seems to show that you haven’t understood my beliefs or my comments. Peace to you.

Isn’t this more correct? Don’t Mormons believe that Jesus is one god? God is another god and the Holy Spirit a third god?

 

[TheExorcist]

Isn’t this more correct? Don’t Mormons believe that Jesus is one god? God is another god and the Holy Spirit a third god?

Yes that is in essence correct.

 

[Tony888]

I must say that I find it rather peculiar that you feel a need to correct non-LDS’s misinterpretations of LDS beliefs, but not an LDS’s misbeliefs. I somehow doubt that if this was one of your children or a family member that you would just chock it up to him/her “exploring their world” and let them find their place/learn new things on their own without at least attempting to correct any errors in belief that they have.

Jay, that was not the case.
I clarified with the LDS poster that he was posting **‘speculation’ **and not LDS doctirne. Beyond clarifying what is doctrine, do we have a right to correct people speculating about theology?
IF the church has no position or doctrine in a partiular area, how can you sincerely correct someone?

All you can do is ensure they know the difference between doctrine and sepculation.

I only whish the many non-LDS posters here were so quick to acknowledging when they were posting speculation instead of LDS doctrine.

 

[Tony888]

Isn’t this more correct? Don’t Mormons believe that Jesus is one god? God is another god and the Holy Spirit a third god?

These definitions are simple but accurate

RCC believes we have Three Persons united in One Being

LDS believe we have Three Beings united in One Pupose

 

[Jay53]

Jay, that was not the case.
I clarified with the LDS poster that he was posting **‘speculation’ **and not LDS doctirne. Beyond clarifying what is doctrine, do we have a right to correct people speculating about theology?
IF the church has no position or doctrine in a partiular area, how can you sincerely correct someone?

All you can do is ensure they know the difference between doctrine and sepculation.

I only whish the many non-LDS posters here were so quick to acknowledging when they were posting speculation instead of LDS doctrine.

My response was directed at Parker who claimed he felt he had no interest or responsibility in addressing the issues raised. That being said, I’m not sure the poster is clear that he is posting speculation.

 

[Tony888]

My response was directed at Parker who claimed he felt he had no interest or responsibility in addressing the issues raised. That being said, I’m not sure the poster is clear that he is posting speculation.

Look at the thread, when I questioned him, he admitted it was speculation and not doctrine.
Since I had engaged the poster, I felt warranted in responding to your note.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

He can’t do that, because there no such thing as permanent in Mormonism. Any teaching is subject to change because of new revelation. In Mormonism, Truth does change, when there is a need to change it or redefine it to fit their needs for the current times.

Yeah, be a Mormon if you want a God who changes his mind, and one day tells you to be a polygamist or you can’t go to heaven, and the next day tells you not to; who tells you Black people are not to be given the Mormom priesthood, and the following day says they are, Truth, by definition, cannot change; it is true yesterday, today, and forever. Mormon doctrine therefore is not true because it either has changed or is subject to change at any given moment.

Jim Dandy

 

[Jim_Dandy]

These definitions are simple but accurate

RCC believes we have Three Persons united in One Being

LDS believe we have Three Beings united in One Pupose

Tony, when asked if Mormons believe in three separate gods, Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost, just say YES. That’s polytheism. Case closed.

Further, Mormons teach that each Mormon male may become a God and rule over his own kingdom and have spirit children forever with his multiple goddess wives.

Is there any doubt about its being a polytheistic religion? Why argue against it, when it is so clearly taught by the LDS.

Case C-L-0-S-E-D.

Jim Dandy

 

[TheExorcist]

Tony, when asked if Mormons believe in three separate gods, Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost, just say YES. That’s polytheism. Case closed.

Further, Mormons teach that each Mormon male may become a God and rule over his own kingdom and have spirit children forever with his multiple goddess wives.

Is there any doubt about its being a polytheistic religion? Why argue against it, when it is so clearly taught by the LDS.

Case C-L-0-S-E-D.

Jim Dandy

Unless you have the authority to close the thread (as I wish wish wish) the tap dancing WILL continue! The show MUST go on!

:sad_yes:

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Miriam wrote:

Mingling with Gods he can plan for his brethren,

As Miriam reported, this is a song about Joseph Smith. This answers the question asked in this thread perfectly.

Thank you, Miriam!!!

Jim Dandy

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Unless you have the authority to close the thread (as I wish wish wish) the tap dancing WILL continue! The show MUST go on!

:sad_yes: