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Bill_Pick
Guest
And Could Smith Have A True Prophet From God ? And If Yes, Why
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BartBurk
Guest
I’m much more interested in knowing if Mormonism is true. If Mormonism is true it is Christian. If it is not true, it doesn’t make any difference.
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Deconi
Guest
It is not Christian.
It is SMITHSONIAN !
It is SMITHSONIAN !
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truthsilence
Guest
I know Mormons who are Christians. (I certainly didn’t like being told I wasn’t a Christian when I was a Mormon).
But the foundations of Mormonism - what Joseph Smith taught and believed - even the very Nature of God, is definitely different from what we have been taught, and what we believe, as Christians. Some Mormons will accept that fact and ‘own’ it. Others won’t, understandably. But mostly, I think they can’t wrap their heads around the Trinity, and that Christ is the fulfilment of the Everlasting Gospel - not Mormonism. God the Father being in the form of a man - having flesh and bones, (…and a Father who had a Father who had a Father) makes more sense to them. It finally made me unsure of just Who I was worshipping. So I prayed to God and asked Him to lead me to the Truth. He led me home, to His Son, into the fullness of the Faith, in the Catholic church.
Peace,
Tami
But the foundations of Mormonism - what Joseph Smith taught and believed - even the very Nature of God, is definitely different from what we have been taught, and what we believe, as Christians. Some Mormons will accept that fact and ‘own’ it. Others won’t, understandably. But mostly, I think they can’t wrap their heads around the Trinity, and that Christ is the fulfilment of the Everlasting Gospel - not Mormonism. God the Father being in the form of a man - having flesh and bones, (…and a Father who had a Father who had a Father) makes more sense to them. It finally made me unsure of just Who I was worshipping. So I prayed to God and asked Him to lead me to the Truth. He led me home, to His Son, into the fullness of the Faith, in the Catholic church.
Peace,
Tami
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Bill_Pick
Guest
WE HAVE TWO PARTS TO THE QUESTION
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johnnykins
Guest
Is Mormonism Christian? As with all questions like this your definition of “Christian” is key. If every religion that believe Jesus was God is “Christian” then certainly Mormonism is “Christian.” Of course by that definition Unitarianism and JW are not Christian. So to include Unitarianism and JW and require only that Jesus be a great teacher or prophet then we include them, but also Islam and certain Buddhist and Hindu sects.
Perhaps we need to define “Christian” as only those who hold that Jesus was God, a great teacher or prophet but also traces is development back through Catholicism and Orthodoxy - though that will exclude certain Baptist sects that claim direct descent from the apostles and not through Catholicism or Orthodoxy.
Many Protestants maintain that to be Christian you must adhere to Sola Scriptura and Sola Fides. That excludes Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
We could go on and on in this way. What is believed about the nature of Jesus or the Trinity could be hallmarks. What about monotheism? The Book of Mormon? Baptism of the dead? Any heresy could disqualify a sect.
My short answer is that Mormonism is generally thought by the average person to be Christian - so I would say for casual conversation it is. With its polytheism, odd doctrines and separate revelation I would argue in a small group that it’s not Christian as that term is traditionally used.
n short - no good answer, plus it opens the door for those who hold that Catholicism is not Christian.
Perhaps we need to define “Christian” as only those who hold that Jesus was God, a great teacher or prophet but also traces is development back through Catholicism and Orthodoxy - though that will exclude certain Baptist sects that claim direct descent from the apostles and not through Catholicism or Orthodoxy.
Many Protestants maintain that to be Christian you must adhere to Sola Scriptura and Sola Fides. That excludes Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
We could go on and on in this way. What is believed about the nature of Jesus or the Trinity could be hallmarks. What about monotheism? The Book of Mormon? Baptism of the dead? Any heresy could disqualify a sect.
My short answer is that Mormonism is generally thought by the average person to be Christian - so I would say for casual conversation it is. With its polytheism, odd doctrines and separate revelation I would argue in a small group that it’s not Christian as that term is traditionally used.
n short - no good answer, plus it opens the door for those who hold that Catholicism is not Christian.
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Robertsxxx
Guest
Um… Sure?
Anyone can be. I can be. There are even now people that claim to be sons of God, & others buy this & follow them. Coming up with evidence they are not is pretty hard, since they can just lower standards or make excuses.
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
**“No” to both. **
**It matters not at all that there are plenty of people who regard Catholicism as non-Christian - they were of that opinion before Smith or his helpers were even born; so their loathing of Catholicism was not dependent on Catholic rejection of Mormon paganism; nor is it now. Besides, if Mormonism is pagan, it is dishonest to dissemble & to pretend one thinks it is not. Our own convenience can’t be an argument against being truthful. **
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Blade_and_Blood
Guest
It’s only fair to call them Christians because they do believe in Jesus Christ…
As for Smith, I don’t know. I personally don’t trust the LDS’s origin, but that is simply my opinion.
Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood
Stephen168
New member
What do you mean by ‘believe in Jesus Christ?’
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NonCatholic
Guest
What Do Mormons Believe: Divine Authority
The Mormon church uses two sources as its primary authorities: the Book of Mormon and the Bible. The Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price are also viewed as divinely authoritative. The Christian church uses the Holy Bible alone as its authority from God. Joseph Smith is not recognized as a prophet.
What Do Mormons Believe: The Nature of God
The Mormon church sees God as the Supreme Being of the universe. However, He gradually acquired that position over a long period of time by living a perfect and righteous life. God the Father has a body (flesh and bones). The Christian church proclaims God as eternally and infinitely supreme. He is the same today as always. He is a spirit Being.
What Do Mormons Believe: The Nature of Man
The Mormon church teaches that humans exist as spirit beings before their birth. At physical birth, bodies are given to these spirits. They are also given an opportunity for free-will choice. The physical world represents a period of probation. The status of a person in the afterlife is determined by the way that person lived his/her life on Earth. If the person lived by a satisfactory standard, (including the fulfillment of Mormon temple obligations) that person has the potential to become a god in the after-life. The person can also produce “spirit children” to populate a world of his own (like God did with the earth). The Christian church holds that humans do not exist as spirits prior to being born into the world. Humans cannot attain godhood or populate other worlds with “spirit children.”
What Do Mormons Believe: The Nature of Jesus Christ
The Mormon church views Jesus and Satan as spirit brothers and sons of God. God put forth His plan of salvation for the world, and Satan proposed his own plan. Jesus accepted the Father’s plan and offered to implement it as the Savior. The Father chose Jesus, and the spirit of Jesus was given a body through the virgin Mary. He was crucified on a Roman cross, and rose from the dead three days later to establish His deity. The character and life of Jesus is attainable by anyone who performs at such a righteous level. The Christian church teaches that Jesus Christ has existed eternally as the Son of God, the second “person” of the Trinity. Jesus took on human flesh about 2000 years ago and was born into the world through the virgin Mary. He was crucified on a Roman cross for our sins, and rose from the dead three days later to establish His deity.
What Do Mormons Believe: How do we Achieve Salvation
The Mormon church holds that Jesus Christ overcame physical death and guaranteed physical resurrection to all mankind. However, spiritual death can only be avoided through personal obedience of God’s commandments. Forgiveness of sins requires faith, repentance and baptism by an approved Mormon priest. The practice of baptism for the dead is an extension of this belief, in which Mormons are baptized in proxy for those who have died without proper baptism. The Christian church teaches that we are unable to live a life righteous enough to meet God’s perfectly holy standard. Therefore, we establish a relationship with God by faith in the work of Christ on the cross, not by our own works. Baptism and good deeds are acts of obedience to God, but not the means for gaining eternal salvation.
What Do Mormons Believe: Life After Death
The Mormon church maintains that although there is temporary punishment for those that are most wicked, Jesus Christ will establish a new kingdom that will consist of three levels: the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, and the telestial kingdom. The Christian church holds that there are only two possible fates after death, heaven or hell. These locations are final, both physically and spiritually.
allaboutcults.org/what-do-mormons-believe.htm
This is another gospel.
.
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tundramom
Guest
To be fair, in their own minds they believe they are. At least these days. In the past they haven’t always thought so because the term Christian wasn’t well defined by their changing doctrines.
While I was growing up I thought Mormonism was the ONLY TRUE Christianity. Yes, I believed that the Pope was rotten to the core and was actually afraid of them. I’ve shared many times that my Mom used to make us hide on the floorboards of the car whenever we passed by the only Catholic church in the valley at the time.
Yes, I believed I was a Christian.
Now that I am a Christian, I know the difference.
in Christ
Steph
While I was growing up I thought Mormonism was the ONLY TRUE Christianity. Yes, I believed that the Pope was rotten to the core and was actually afraid of them. I’ve shared many times that my Mom used to make us hide on the floorboards of the car whenever we passed by the only Catholic church in the valley at the time.
Yes, I believed I was a Christian.
Now that I am a Christian, I know the difference.
in Christ
Steph
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dianaiad
Guest
It certainly does…and most of the folks who deny that Mormons are Christians have no hesitation whatsoever in barging right through that door, with banners and pamphlets flying.
Over the years I have come to the conclusion that the best definition is what the dictionary uses, with one minor addition: Most dictionaries claim that “Christian” means…someone who follows the religion of Christ (or something akin to that wording.)
that too leaves a whole bunch of problems…people saying that “I have the TRUE religion of Christ and you don’t”…defining the 'true religion of Christ by the beliefs THEY hold about Him, denying everyone else. Of course, that causes problems with all those ‘everyone else’s.’
Then there is that problem with the JW’s and (maybe) the Unitarians. See, the JW’s don’t CLAIM to be Christian. At least this year they don’t.
So my definition of “Christian” goes like this: someone who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ as he believes them to be, and who claims to be Christian.
That covers pretty much everybody who claims to be Christian, leaves out those who want to be left out, but makes no judgment about the truth of the beliefs being followed.
Waddayathink?
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dianaiad
Guest
With all due…and I mean this; with all the deepest respect…your mother was a very unusual woman.
While I know some pretty vehemently strict Mormons, I’ve never met anybody who did anything like THAT.
Did you ever wonder what her reaction would have been to the sight of all those Mormon youths who volunteered to set up the chairs, handle the crowd control and deal with the cleanup when the Pope visited Denver awhile back–because they wanted to free all the Catholic youth simply to participate in the services?
Or what about the fact that the Catholic Charities and the LDS welfare system have been working together seamlessly for literally decades?
???
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Chrisy58
Guest
*Questions like this are devisive. Because it is a us vs them mindset.
When I lived in KS my violin teacher and his wife was Morman. They were wonderful people. I knew they were Morman and they knew I was Catholic. When he was starting up a choir at the Morman church he asked me to sing to help them get started as a choir. So for the year I was singing in both the Morman choir and the Catholic Choir.
I would first go to the Morman church and singing in their choir I sat through their service and then after that I went on to Mass at my church. The service is different than the Mass. They gave a lot of testamony of what God had done for them. They did believe in Jesus, but they also believed in Joseph Smith. They knew I would never be converted to their faith, but during that time I sang in the choir there we developed a deep respect for each other. They used to tell me I was the first Christian who showed them the true love of Christ and not judge them, but love them as Christ loves me.
I felt that I represented the Catholic church in a good light.
It is funny that this thread is here today, as I was watching a show earlier today and the Christian/Baptist I believe was so pushy and judgemental that she actually drove people away from Christ. I have seen that happen. How many times have non Catholics say terrible and mean things about us. I have heard Baptist preachers say Catholics aren’t saved.
There are Mormans who are Christian and who know the love of Christ in their hearts. I believe that it is best to build bridges of understanding with each other and not tear them down because they don’t believe the exact same way we do.
When I lived in KS my violin teacher and his wife was Morman. They were wonderful people. I knew they were Morman and they knew I was Catholic. When he was starting up a choir at the Morman church he asked me to sing to help them get started as a choir. So for the year I was singing in both the Morman choir and the Catholic Choir.
I would first go to the Morman church and singing in their choir I sat through their service and then after that I went on to Mass at my church. The service is different than the Mass. They gave a lot of testamony of what God had done for them. They did believe in Jesus, but they also believed in Joseph Smith. They knew I would never be converted to their faith, but during that time I sang in the choir there we developed a deep respect for each other. They used to tell me I was the first Christian who showed them the true love of Christ and not judge them, but love them as Christ loves me.
I felt that I represented the Catholic church in a good light.
It is funny that this thread is here today, as I was watching a show earlier today and the Christian/Baptist I believe was so pushy and judgemental that she actually drove people away from Christ. I have seen that happen. How many times have non Catholics say terrible and mean things about us. I have heard Baptist preachers say Catholics aren’t saved.
There are Mormans who are Christian and who know the love of Christ in their hearts. I believe that it is best to build bridges of understanding with each other and not tear them down because they don’t believe the exact same way we do.
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Blade_and_Blood
Guest
Anyone who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ are generally Christian. Of course, Mormons sort of have… “interesting” views of Him, but, technically, they still believe in Him… in a way.
I really hope I’m not offending anyone. If I did, I apologize very much.
Ironically Yours.
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Rawb
Guest
Not according to the Catholic Church. To be Christian one must believe in the Blessed Trinity and have a valid baptism. That is, baptised in water in the name of the Trinity.
On the surface, then, Mormonism appears Christian by our definition. The Church has found, however, that the Mormon understanding of the Trinity is not orthodox. Thus they are not Christian as they do not believe in the Blessed Trinity, and do not have valid Baptisms.
On the surface, then, Mormonism appears Christian by our definition. The Church has found, however, that the Mormon understanding of the Trinity is not orthodox. Thus they are not Christian as they do not believe in the Blessed Trinity, and do not have valid Baptisms.
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NonCatholic
Guest
*Questions like this are devisive. Because it is a us vs them mindset.
When I lived in KS my violin teacher and his wife was Morman. They were wonderful people. I knew they were Morman and they knew I was Catholic. When he was starting up a choir at the Morman church he asked me to sing to help them get started as a choir. So for the year I was singing in both the Morman choir and the Catholic Choir.
I would first go to the Morman church and singing in their choir I sat through their service and then after that I went on to Mass at my church. The service is different than the Mass. They gave a lot of testamony of what God had done for them. They did believe in Jesus, but they also believed in Joseph Smith. They knew I would never be converted to their faith, but during that time I sang in the choir there we developed a deep respect for each other. They used to tell me I was the first Christian who showed them the true love of Christ and not judge them, but love them as Christ loves me.
I felt that I represented the Catholic church in a good light. **You did…good work
It is funny that this thread is here today, as I was watching a show earlier today and the Christian/Baptist I believe was so pushy and judgemental **You just did the very same thing**that she actually drove people away from Christ. I have seen that happen. How many times have non Catholics say terrible and mean things about us. I have heard Baptist preachers say Catholics aren’t saved. Was in the tone of concern for the soul or just bashing or do you know?
There are Mormans who are Christian and who know the love of Christ in their hearts. I believe that it is best to build bridges of understanding with each other and not tear them down because they don’t believe the exact same way we do.
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Zooey
Guest
:doh2:
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dianaiad
Guest
Y’know, I can honestly say that while I have heard “Mormons are not saved” in a 'tone of concern" a couple of times, usually it is said in a tone of self congratulation; as in 'I’m saved, you’re not, nya, nya…"
Even those who say it in a ‘tone of concern’ spoil it by going on to tell us what we really believe, why that his wrong, and that we are either ‘not Christian’ or ‘going to hell’ (generally both).
This would be irritating enough, except that when people start telling me what I ‘really’ believe, they get it wrong. When I correct them, wouldn’t the logical response be “oh, I didn’t know that, how nice…” perhaps even followed by relief that we aren’t as weird as they thought?
Nope, it is always, and I mean ALWAYS, an argument; 'you do TOO believe this, or that" and off they go again. They dig up obscure quotes by obscure leaders, or non-canonical quotes by more well known leaders, and decide for themselves that THIS is scripture to us, and thus proves that what they claim is true.
In the meantime, none of them ever actually tell me what’s so right about their own beliefs. You know, just present them as the shining gift they are supposed to be, and let me do my own comparing. Nope, inevitably (and that word is deliberately chosen) “their” views are presented in terms of what they think mine are. “Mormons believe this and that and we don’t.”
Which of course isn’t very helpful when they insist upon getting our beliefs wrong.
OK, what DO you believe, then? (rhetorical question, not an actual one, by the way, just for the purposes of this rant)
Actually, most of the Catholics on this board know exactly what I’m talking about here in terms of fundamentalist Christians.
Just look at the recent thread “Catholics worship Mary.” It is a milder form of this, but you can see the way it works.
I wish I had the…something…required to just step back and let ‘them’ argue with themselves, but I have this quixotic need to bang some sense into heads. (shrug)
Diana
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