Is Morning the proper time for Mass/liturgy?

[sedonaman]

Would someone please explain the difference between “Mass” and “liturgy”? Did the Mass metamorphose into liturgy? If so, what’s different, IOW, what does the term “liturgy” convey that “Mass” doesn’t? I never heard of the Holy Sacrifice of the “Liturgy.” Does calling a horse’s tail a leg change it into one?

 

[YoungTradCath]

Ok …

Im not debating any Popes decisions btw

i didnt know how church traditions or rules came about in the Roman church

Throughout history has and can the Pope in charge solely change previous traditions and church practices or disciplines?

i assumed it was councils that decided how things run,and was suprised to hear for eg how one man like Pope Paul could just override a council and change the liturgical mass

what happens if a new Pope has poor judgement ,but having that power changes things for the worse ,wouldnt that be bad?

The Pope enjoys the ability to personally change whatever he wants that is not doctrine or dogma. So no, the Pope can’t come out tomorrow and say, “Hey everybody, no, the Ascension was just a joke and we aren’t going to believe that anymore.” But the Pope can say, “Hey everybody, mass has to be celebrated between the hours of 4AM and 1PM.”

Yes, the Popes have throughout history changed traditions, practices and disciplines.

Councils can as a corporate body, just as the Pope can personally, declare doctrine or dogma. Similarly, councils can as a corporate body, just as the Pope can personally, change or add or remove traditions, practices and disciplines. In the former instance, once it’s done, it’s done. In the latter instance, correct me if I’m wrong, things can be changed. Traditions, practices and disciplines can always be changed by the Pope personally or by a council as a corporate body.

 

[edward_george]

Would someone please explain the difference between “Mass” and “liturgy”? Did the Mass metamorphose into liturgy? If so, what’s different, IOW, what does the term “liturgy” convey that “Mass” doesn’t? I never heard of the Holy Sacrifice of the “Liturgy.” Does calling a horse’s tail a leg change it into one?

The Mass is a kind of liturgy. There are other kinds of liturgy, like the Liturgy of the Hours (aka Divine Office) and certain sacramental rituals which may be performed within the context of Mass or without. Liturgy comes from a Greek word that means “public work,” and so it’s just the public rites and rituals of the Church. All Masses are liturgy, but not all liturgies are Mass.

-ACEGC

 

[YoungTradCath]

Would someone please explain the difference between “Mass” and “liturgy”? Did the Mass metamorphose into liturgy? If so, what’s different, IOW, what does the term “liturgy” convey that “Mass” doesn’t? I never heard of the Holy Sacrifice of the “Liturgy.” Does calling a horse’s tail a leg change it into one?

Well, liturgy includes Mass, the Divine Office, Benediction, etc. Mass is just mass.

I do think it’s quite awful when a Catholic church puts “Liturgy Times” on their signs, though. Yes, communion services do replace masses in some places in some instances, but most people go to a Catholic church in anticipation of a mass, not a communion service, especially travelers. So I think that’s a cop out. :]

 

[FrDavid96]

Would someone please explain the difference between “Mass” and “liturgy”? Did the Mass metamorphose into liturgy? If so, what’s different, IOW, what does the term “liturgy” convey that “Mass” doesn’t? I never heard of the Holy Sacrifice of the “Liturgy.” Does calling a horse’s tail a leg make it one?

Liturgy is a generic word that refers to the public, officially sanctioned, and regulated prayers of the Church. Liturgical prayers are those for which the Church has a specific approved ritual. (although you didn’t ask it, non-liturgical prayers are those for which the Church does not have a required format).

Mass is the Holy Sacrifice. All Mass is liturgy, but not all liturgy is Mass.

Please don’t make fun of something just because you don’t understand the definition of a word. No one is trying to call a horse’s tail a leg. The only people laughing here are the ones who are amused by your own ignorance and your willingness to share it.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

Would someone please explain the difference between “Mass” and “liturgy”? Did the Mass metamorphose into liturgy? If so, what’s different, IOW, what does the term “liturgy” convey that “Mass” doesn’t? I never heard of the Holy Sacrifice of the “Liturgy.” Does calling a horse’s tail a leg change it into one?

I included "liturgy’ in my questions because the Eastern churches call the Mass the “Divine Liturgy”

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Would someone please explain the difference between “Mass” and “liturgy”? Did the Mass metamorphose into liturgy? If so, what’s different, IOW, what does the term “liturgy” convey that “Mass” doesn’t? I never heard of the Holy Sacrifice of the “Liturgy.” Does calling a horse’s tail a leg change it into one?

Liturgy is a word with a greek root which loosely means “work of the people”.

Mass is a specific form of Liturgy. It is the Eucharistic Liturgy of the Latin Church. The Divine Liturgy is the Eucharistic Liturgy of the Churches of the Byzantine Rite.

Liturgy is a catch all phrase.

Masses are Liturgy but not all Liturgies are Masses.

 

[77stanthony77]

Not all churches have wine during the week. My church has wine at the 12:10 mass, because its in the chapel it is very small. But at the other churches that have a large community during the week did not have wine unless it is a Holy Day

 

[TimothyH]

The appropriate time for Mass is all the time.

Remember that the Church is Christ’s body. We are one. That is not a metaphor - we are one body, and the individual Masses offered by that body are not seperate from each other. Each Mass is a re-presentation of Christ’s one sacrifice on the Cross to God the Father, and each is a participation in Christ’s one sacrifice.

All Masses are a participation in Christ’s passion, death and ressurection. The appropriate time for that is now, and always, perpetually and forever, and at this present moment, and that is exactly what the universal Church does.

There was a parish in Philadelphia which had Mass at 2:00 AM. It was called the Printers Mass because the people who printed the newspaper used to go after their shift was done and the newspaper delivery drivers would go before they went out on their delivery routes.

The parish I go to has Mass at 7:00 AM and we get a lot of contractors and business men. We have Mass at 9:00 AM and get a lot of mother’s after they drop their kids at school. We have Mass again at 7:00 PM and get older couples, lots of women, and kids from the local college.

The appropriate time is when people will come to experiece Jesus in a profound way and to worship him.

-Tim-

 

[YoungTradCath]

Not all churches have wine during the week. My church has wine at the 12:10 mass, because its in the chapel it is very small. But at the other churches that have a large community during the week did not have wine unless it is a Holy Day

?

The Blood of Christ is present at every mass, although the only person who must absolutely receive it is the priest. It was the practice for hundreds of years to only offer the Body of Christ to the faithful, and in many places, and especially on weekdays, it continues to be. Now, I am sure that there is wine at all masses at the other churches near you, but that the Blood of Christ is simply not offered to the faithful, which it needn’t be. But if there is none at all, then those masses are invalid.

The appropriate time is when people will come to experiece Jesus in a profound way and to worship him.

-Tim-

I think this is a nice sentiment and is certainly true. But I think the OP was wanting a more legal answer. The appropriate time is when the Church tells us it is. Which now, is nearly any time.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Not all churches have wine during the week. My church has wine at the 12:10 mass, because its in the chapel it is very small. But at the other churches that have a large community during the week did not have wine unless it is a Holy Day

Actually, for the Mass (Liturgy) to be valid wine is offered every time. It just may not be offered to the laity. The celebrating priest must consecrated and consume it at every Mass (Liturgy).

 

[Paul_theApostle]

Not all churches have wine during the week. My church has wine at the 12:10 mass, because its in the chapel it is very small. But at the other churches that have a large community during the week did not have wine unless it is a Holy Day

what kind of wine is it?

do you drink some wine too?

 

[sedonaman]

Well, liturgy includes Mass, the Divine Office, Benediction, etc. Mass is just mass.

Since Mass and everything else have special names that mean what they say and are not subjective, I think we should say “Mass” when we mean Mass, and “Divine Office”, “Benediction”, etc. when we mean them. Why introduce confusion [see your comment below]?

I do think it’s quite awful when a Catholic church puts “Liturgy Times” on their signs, though. Yes, communion services do replace masses in some places in some instances, but most people go to a Catholic church in anticipation of a mass, not a communion service, especially travelers. So I think that’s a cop out. :]

Our parish bulletin refers to “Ash Wednesday Liturgies” and “Masses for your intentions”. Looks like an attempt to be esoteric.

 

[sedonaman]

…Please don’t make fun of something just because you don’t understand the definition of a word. No one is trying to call a horse’s tail a leg. The only people laughing here are the ones who are amused by your own ignorance and your willingness to share it.

So, what does the term “liturgy” convey that “Mass” doesn’t when we mean “Mass”?

 

[PacoG]

Since Mass and everything else have special names that mean what they say and are not subjective, I think we should say “Mass” when we mean Mass, and “Divine Office”, “Benediction”, etc. when we mean them. Why introduce confusion [see your comment below]?
Our parish bulletin refers to “Ash Wednesday Liturgies” and “Masses for your intentions”. Looks like an attempt to be esoteric.

I don’t see how they are trying to be esoteric. They are just trying to group everything on Ash Wednesday under one label. At my parish, Ash Wednesday liturgy has meant and can mean:

two Masses
Communion Service with Ashes
Liturgy of the Word with Ashes

So these four different occurences get grouped under the generic term of what they are…“Liturgy.”

Neighboring parishes have:
two Masses
Vespers with Ashes
Liturgy of the Word with Ashes
Distribution of Ashes with Adoration

What would you group them if not “Liturgy?”

If you group them under “Ash Wednesday Services” people will complain that the word “services” are a Protestant conspiracy. So you’re either “esoteric” or “Protestant.” Take your pick. Damned if you do. Damned if you don’t.

 

[sedonaman]

I don’t see how they are trying to be esoteric. They are just trying to group everything on Ash Wednesday under one label. At my parish, Ash Wednesday liturgy has meant and can mean:

two Masses
Communion Service with Ashes
Liturgy of the Word with Ashes

So these four different occurences get grouped under the generic term of what they are…“Liturgy.”

Neighboring parishes have:
two Masses
Vespers with Ashes
Liturgy of the Word with Ashes
Distribution of Ashes with Adoration

What would you group them if not “Liturgy?”

If you group them under “Ash Wednesday Services” people will complain that the word “services” are a Protestant conspiracy. So you’re either “esoteric” or “Protestant.” Take your pick. Damned if you do. Damned if you don’t.

Why group them at all? Just list them as you did with the times for each.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Mass is Mass no matter what time of day. However as one person once pointed out to me: “How did the last supper become the first breakfast?”

Because while we commemorate the Last Supper in Liturgy, what we are really celebrating is Easter every Sunday, which happened very early on a Sunday

 

[Digitonomy]

Why group them at all? Just list them as you did with the times for each.

A principle of layout is that it’s good to have a title or heading, so that the people who are skipping over the previous section about “Altar Sodality Fundraiser” won’t assume the times and events listed are part of that as well.

 

[FrDavid96]

So, what does the term “liturgy” convey that “Mass” doesn’t when we mean “Mass”?

Why don’t you call it “The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass?”

Do you not believe that it is the Sacrifice of Christ made present for us on the altar?

Are you attempting to deny the Sacrificial nature of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass by omitting the word “Sacrifice”?

By calling it just “Mass” are you trying to make the point that it isn’t Holy?

 

[curlycool89]

I actually don’t usually attend morning liturgies at all. During the week I’ll go around noonish or evening (the local Cathedral has daily Masses at noon at in the evening), and on Saturday and Sunday I go in the evening. Actually, Sunday is probably closer to “night” since it’s a 9pm Mass.

There used to be an absolute rule (correct me if I’m wrong) that all masses, except the Easter Vigil and some others, had to be complete by 12 noon. I believe Pius XII removed that.

Actually, I believe pre-Pius XII the Easter Vigil was also celebrated on Holy Saturday morning.