Is Mortal Sin Over-Estimated?

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GospelOfMatthew said:
We are going to sin regardless no matter what we do.
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While it’s nice to think about your virtues, this is a wrong approach to sin. It’s like saying we’re going to catch some colds and illnesses in our life no matter what we do. That doesn’t mean we don’t take some precautions, such as washing our hands, developing healthful eating habits, wrapping up when we go out in the cold, avoiding dirty germy situations when possible, etc.
 
To focus on sin is to look down. It is to look left and right when we should be looking up to the perfection of God. At mass particularly, this has lead many to lose their faith. Indeed, it prevents many from entering the Church. If we knew who was erecting these roadblocks, it would sober us up. Still, the drumbeat is incessant:

“The Church is full of sinners”, “Father is a hypocrite”, “The Bishops are complacent/corrupt” etc. etc.etc.

What does any of this have to do with the Sacred Deposit of Faith? What does it have to do with our goal? It stands as evidence of the evil one’s tactics to keep us away from God. He does not have to attract us to him - he simply strives to keep us at a distance from God, thus making his job all that much easier.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Many Catholics use the term "mortal sin" to mean “grave sin”. I probably did this myself before I joined this forum and a couple of posters including a priest gave me the standard speech about how we cannot know that someone else’s sin is mortal or not and that furthermore it’s probably not mortal because free will appeared to be missing, etc.
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grave and mortal are synonymous.

AND

we CAN see when a person commits a
mortal vs non mortal sin

it’s no big mystery to John or he wouldn’t have taught what he did

AND

Obviously if one wants forgiveness of mortal sin, the Church teaches we need confession and absolution.
Tos_Bearself:
We would do well to just focus on sin and not be constantly trying to separate out mortal sin as the only sin we need to be concerned about. When God judges, he’s going to show you ALL your sins. NOT just your grave sins.
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Mortal sin is a cinch to commit.

If one dies in sin therefore,

Since venial sin won’t send one to hell., but Mortal sin will, then we need to remain focused particularly in avoiding mortal sin. There will be no discussion at judgement. If one dies in mortal sin they go immediately to hell

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

This is why we have distinction of sin, (it’s scriptural) and it’s why mortal sin is to be avoided at all cost.

BTW, Georgetown Univ, a Catholic Univ, did a study on mass attendance. In 2018, they found only 21% of Catholics went faithfully to mass on Sunday. Meaning, unless one had a good excuse, all the other Catholics are in mortal sin. And if they don’t go to reconciliation before their next reception of the Eucharist, they commit sacrilege on top of their mortal sin.

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own
pastor. Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

BTW: Grave sin = mortal sin, A distinction without a difference

What the Early Church Believed: Mortal Sin | Catholic Answers grave sin and mortal sin (deadly) are synonymous. I.E. If one is in grave sin, they are dead spiritually.
 
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John10 said:
And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. (Matthew 18:9)
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I really hope this quote is metaphorical and you aren’t actually suggesting people mutilate themselves instead of going to confession…
 
steve-b said:
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RealisticCatholic:
NOTES: (1) I am not talking about sin in general. I think the culture underestimates sin and evil, and I think the Church can even do so as well. (2) I am NOT denying Mortal Sin is possible.

Rather, I’m talking about Mortal Sin specifically: Sin which leaves us graceless and damnable.

My issue is this: I almost hear about Mortal Sin too casually from many Catholic quarters, as if it’s just a given. Like, there’s almost this impression that people – even active Catholics – just go in and out of mortal sin often enough. Even monthly or what have you. You’ll hear people (on radio, or on CAF, etc.) advise that one just “refrains from communion because of mortal sin. But just be sure to go to confession!” etc.

While I think we need to remember the seriousness of sin, I think we sometimes over-do the whole “Mortal Sin” thing.

Do you sense this, too?
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No, I personally don’t sense that.

all one has to do is look how big/small the confession line is on Saturdays at the parish and you’ll see how people in that parish view sin…particularly mortal sin.
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I disagree with this correlation, especially in regards to mortal sin.

I would hope by the grace of God that most practicing and faithful Catholics would be able to avoid committing a mortal sin throughout much of their lives. To think that practicing Catholics — even with God’s abundant grace — would be committing mortal sin on a regular basis would be very disheartening indeed.

That said, going to confession on a regular basis to seek absolution of one’s venial sins is very commendable and recommended. But I think it’s a stretch to assume that there’s a correlation between the length of the confession line on a Saturday afternoon and the people’s view on the amount of mortal sin, especially in regards to mortal sins that are being committed by practicing Catholics.
 
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Well yes of course. We should try to sin less and do what we can to lessen it. But wouldn’t you agree that focusing too heavily on our sins makes us turn towards ourselves only (pridefulness) and thus turn from God and others?

My confessor told me this
 
steve-b said:
grave and mortal are synonymous.
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No, they are not. Grave Matter means potentially mortal, if an additional two conditions are met besides it being Grave Matter.

Mortal Sin refers to a grave matter sin where all the conditions are met for mortal sin.

One can commit a grave matter sin without having it be mortal. We have had at least one saint who did this, repeatedly, and was refused both absolution and Eucharist. He was an opium addict.

I realize your personal belief may be that they are “synonymous”, but as this point has been corrected on here many times including by priests in the past, you are somewhat posting misinformation if you persist in posting this here.

Edited to add, please refer to CCC 1857 et seq. Grave Matter is just one of the three conditions for mortal sin.
1857 For a sin to be mortal , three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”
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“PeterT said:
steve-b said:
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RealisticCatholic:
NOTES: (1) I am not talking about sin in general. I think the culture underestimates sin and evil, and I think the Church can even do so as well. (2) I am NOT denying Mortal Sin is possible.

Rather, I’m talking about Mortal Sin specifically: Sin which leaves us graceless and damnable.

My issue is this: I almost hear about Mortal Sin too casually from many Catholic quarters, as if it’s just a given. Like, there’s almost this impression that people – even active Catholics – just go in and out of mortal sin often enough. Even monthly or what have you. You’ll hear people (on radio, or on CAF, etc.) advise that one just “refrains from communion because of mortal sin. But just be sure to go to confession!” etc.

While I think we need to remember the seriousness of sin, I think we sometimes over-do the whole “Mortal Sin” thing.

Do you sense this, too?
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No, I personally don’t sense that.

all one has to do is look how big/small the confession line is on Saturdays at the parish and you’ll see how people in that parish view sin…particularly mortal sin.
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PeterT:
I disagree with this correlation, especially in regards to mortal sin.

I think it’s a stretch to assume that’s there’s a correlation between the length of the confession line on a Saturday afternoon and the people’s view on the amount of mortal sin, especially in regards to mortal sins that are being committed by practicing Catholics.
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Georgetown did the study not me. If only 21% of Catholics go faithfully to Sunday Mass, that means 79% don’t go. Transfer that onto any parish. That a whole lotta people in mortal sin in any parish just on that sin alone. The confession line should be in that case rather long…don’t ya think?
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Tis_Bearself said:
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steve-b:
grave and mortal are synonymous.
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No, they are not. Grave Matter means potentially mortal.

Mortal Sin refers to a grave matter sin where all the conditions are met for mortal sin.

One can commit a grave matter sin without having it be mortal. We have had at least one saint who did this, repeatedly, and was refused both absolution and Eucharist. He was an opium addict.

I realize your personal belief may be that they are “synonymous”, but as this point has been corrected on here many times including by priests in the past, you are somewhat posting misinformation if you persist in posting this here.
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BTW please read this “Grave Sin” = Mortal Sin – Jimmy Akin especially the money quote
 
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steve-b said:
That a whole lotta people in mortal sin in any parish just on that sin alone.
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You are assuming they are in “mortal sin”. You don’t personally know all those people’s state of mind and their circumstances. It is highly likely some are in mortal sin and some are not, at any given moment.
 
Does Jimmy Akin trump the Catechism now? I don’t think so.

Edited to add, his response is going to people who want to start a category of sins called “Grave Sins” as distinct from “mortal” or “venial”. There is no “third category” of sins. If a grave sin is mortal (meets all three conditions), it’s mortal. Otherwise it’s venial. End of story.

I am not proposing a third category of sins either. Your response is not on point. Nor is your somewhat nonsensical comparison of the meaning of the word “grave” to “mortal” re “you better be dead”.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
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steve-b:
That a whole lotta people in mortal sin in any parish just on that sin alone.
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You are assuming they are in “mortal sin”. You don’t personally know all those people’s state of mind and their circumstances. It is highly likely some are in mortal sin and some are not, at any given moment.
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I assume nothing. I gave the caveat. Therefore those who don’t fit the excuse, are in mortal sin and need to go to reconciliation
 
Fine. It is time for me to leave the thread now, as I generally do when I get the popup from Discourse that I am responding too much to one person who is arguing. Have a nice day, I stand by what I have already written.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
While it’s nice to think about your virtues, this is a wrong approach to sin. It’s like saying we’re going to catch some colds and illnesses in our life no matter what we do. That doesn’t mean we don’t take some precautions, such as washing our hands, developing healthful eating habits, wrapping up when we go out in the cold, avoiding dirty germy situations when possible, etc.
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I actually think this is a pretty good analogy. Focusing on avoiding sin would be like focusing on avoiding germs. That’s part of it, but I can’t avoid all of them. So I should do things that improve my overall health, like eating right and exercising and getting good sleep. If I just try to avoid germs I’ll probably get sick a lot.
 
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steve-b said:
grave matter is one thing. Grave sin is another
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Show me where grave sin is defined. There are 2 categories of sin: venial and mortal. Mortal involves grave matter. Reading comprehension is your friend.
 
Same objection to using that source applies as before. Refute the CCC with the CCC or a source at least as authoritative.
 
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