Is Muhammad in the Bible?

[mhmtas63]

Well, in fairness, you probably don’t believe Jesus when he said that He and God were One.

If you walked around the more conservative spots of Iran or Saudi Arabia saying “Jesus was God, just as He said!”, you life would certainly be in danger.

All Muslims believe in Jesus and there is no an exception. When Jesus say He and Father were same Jesus do not claim to be God but express that He was send and taught by Father. What Jesus preached were words from God. That is very obvious in Gospels.

 

[Fauken]

Then why so philosophical efforts to reconcile that doctrine with idea of “One God”.

Because truth isn’t always simple. Quantum physics is true. Quantum physics is also very ugly and saturated in advanced mathematics. The complexities of quantum mechanics does not make it untrue.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

Well, in fairness, you probably don’t believe Jesus when he said that He and God were One.

If you walked around the more conservative spots of Iran or Saudi Arabia saying “Jesus was God, just as He said!”, you life would certainly be in danger.

All Muslims believe in Jesus and there is no an exception. When Jesus say He and Father were same Jesus do not claim to be God but express that He was send and taught by Father. What Jesus preached were words from God. That is very obvious in Gospels.

Jesus said that He and the Father were one. He performed signs and miracles in Gods name. He said he was going to send the Holy Spirit upon us. He said he was going to sit at the right hand of God. It was also said that Jesus existed before even the world existed.

The Jesus you believe in is not the Jesus of the Gospels. Your Jesus is more neutered and watered-down. My Jesus is a God-King.

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Qur’an do not say Christians worship Mary but take Her and Son as deities besides God:

Which is wrong. Point to actual christian practices which elevate Mary to goddesshood.

Because that was added by people!

People added false facts about christianity to the Quran?

Gospels(John, Mattew…) are evidences of that.

The Gospels are the source of the Trinitarian theology.

Do you know that the most important aim in Islam is to gain approval of God. That is something superior on Heavens!

As it is with Christianity. There’s no extra merit to this.

The problem is that Jesus was not God! So that assertion is not valid.

And you can prove this…how?

When Jesus say He and Father were same Jesus do not claim to be God but express that He was send and taught by Father.

False. He is very clear that He, Jesus, is God.

 

[mhmtas63]

Because truth isn’t always simple. Quantum physics is true. Quantum physics is also very ugly and saturated in advanced mathematics. My inability to understand the complexities of quantum mechanics does not make it true.

I am an physicist and realy it is difficult to understand that theory. That theory is some maths and probality problems to expain move, place and energies of sub-atomic particles. But everybody has no need to understand those problems. But all people need faith. Faith could be explained very easy for every mankind.

 

[mhmtas63]

And you can prove this…how?

Was not Jesus a human?

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

Fully man and fully God.

 

[Vonsalza]

Fauken:

Because truth isn’t always simple. Quantum physics is true. Quantum physics is also very ugly and saturated in advanced mathematics. My inability to understand the complexities of quantum mechanics does not make it true.

I am an physicist and realy it is difficult to understand that theory. That theory is some maths and probality problems to expain move, place and energies of sub-atomic particles. But everybody has no need to understand those problems. But all people need faith. Faith could be explained very easy for every mankind.

I’ll agree with that.

I just have a problem with Islam given its textual and historical association with warfare.

In its first three centuries, Christianity came to your village on the legs of a poor evangelist.

In its first three centuries, Islam came to your village on the back of a war horse.

 

[Fauken]

Faith could be explained very easy for every mankind.

Salvation in Christianity is not dependent on a perfect understanding of the nature of God. You can affirm the Trinity as truth without entirely understanding it. That is faith and everyone can do that. If people can affirm that complex scientific theories are true without understanding them, so too can the same be for faith. Jesus did not praise the wise, but the childlike.

 

[mhmtas63]

I’ll agree with that.

I just have a problem with Islam given its textual and historical association with warfare.

In its first three centuries, Christianity came to your village on the legs of a poor evangelist.

In its first three centuries, Islam came to your village on the back of a war horse.

Everyone talk about war! Muhammad persuaded thousands withpout any power! Wars were just to save faith. Because Pagans make wars and use swords to destroy faith. That was something Pagans started. Muslims just retaliated.

And later…Muslims established an Islamic state. A state make wars.

 

[Vonsalza]

Vonsalza:

I’ll agree with that.

I just have a problem with Islam given its textual and historical association with warfare.

In its first three centuries, Christianity came to your village on the legs of a poor evangelist.

In its first three centuries, Islam came to your village on the back of a war horse.

Everyone talk about war! Muhammad persuaded thousands withpout any power! Wars were just to save faith. Because Pagans make wars and use swords to destroy faith. That was something Pagans started. Muslims just retaliated.

And later…Muslims established an Islamic state. A state make wars.

A warring religious state - as Muhammad intended.

Behold! The Rashidun Caliphate a mere 30 YEARS after the death of Muhammad;

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Islam was born in war and “evangelized” through war.
Islam only meant “Peace” for those that submitted to it.

 

[mhmtas63]

Salvation in Christianity is not dependent on a perfect understanding of the nature of God. You can affirm the Trinity as truth without entirely understanding it. That is faith and everyone can do that. If people can affirm that complex scientific theories are true without understanding them, so too can the same be for faith. Jesus did not praise the wise, but the childlike.

But that doctrine conflict with One God. And Jesus never taught such thing. I discussed that many times. Ofcourse it is not perhaps right and easy to say someone else that “your faith is wrong”. Muslims do not say Christianity faith is totaly false. Just a point which conflict with Tawhid. Otherwise God would not notice that issue in revelation (Qur’an).

And I am very sincere that every Muslim believe in Jesus perhaps more stronger than any Christian. Not just Jesus but Moses and all others.

 

[mhmtas63]

A warring religious state - as Muhammad intended.

Behold! The Rashidun Caliphate a mere 30 YEARS after the death of Muhammad;

After Muhammad. That is what I said.

Do you know when Christianity expand? After Rome accepted. Christianity expand by power of Rome. Followers of Jesus were persecuted very much. If Christians would establish a state to save and expand faith that would be very easy.

People believe in Muhammad and Islam by heart. Nobody can get heart of people with war or force!

 

[Vonsalza]

The map says differently. 30 years after Jesus died Christianity was still largely in Turkey and the Levant. And Christianity expanded through Rome. The Empire was already there.

Not so with the Caliphate. Holy war after holy war was made to conquer the infidels.

What was the tax on unbelievers in the Caliphate called?

The Jizya?

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

But that doctrine conflict with One God. And Jesus never taught such thing. I discussed that many times. Ofcourse it is not perhaps right and easy to say someone else that “your faith is wrong”.

You have proven nothing of the sort.

And I am very sincere that every Muslim believe in Jesus perhaps more stronger than any Christian. Not just Jesus but Moses and all others.

The Jesus that’s convenient for them to believe in, yes. Their Jesus isn’t the real Jesus.

 

[Fauken]

But that doctrine conflict with One God. And Jesus never taught such thing. I discussed that many times.

Says who? The Quran? Of course it does. You have no source outside of it to substantiate your claims. When we cite passages from the Bible affirming His divinity, you deny it and claim the Bible is corrupt there. Christianity is apperently so afraid of the truths Islam posits, and yet didn’t bother to corrupt or even remove the parts of the Bible that Muslims point to as predicting Mohammed (which you think would be done) along with the other chunks that were supposedly corrupted.

That same Quran claims that Christians are polytheistic, that we in fact worship three gods. You don’t accidentally worship something. The Quran accuses us of very purposefully doing so, otherwise we we wouldn’t be accused of “taking on” other gods and/or lords. The Quran provides no evidence that this conscious act is Christian doctrine. The fact is that the Quran does not accurately portray neither the Catholic view or Mary nor of the Trinity, and it is beyond strange that something written by God Himself could have such a glaring problem.

 

[Gabika50]

Of course not!!! Islam came 630 years after Christ.

 

[Seeksadvice]

Nope… about 300 years too soon (Nicea) for Islamic stuff.

 

[mhmtas63]

Arguing from silence is a logical fallacy. You are the one claiming it’s corrupted, so since you are the one making that charge, it’s your burden to prove its corruption. So go ahead – the Gospel was written in Aramaic and Koine Greek. Show us exactly where it was corrupted.

God explain how corruption happen. Just think Christians try to prove some doctrines (Trinity, original sin etc) are from scripture.

78- And indeed, there is among them a party who alter the Scripture with their tongues so you may think it is from the Scripture, but it is not from the Scripture. And they say, “This is from Allah,” but it is not from Allah. And they speak untruth about Allah while they know. (Al-Imran-3)

 

[mhmtas63]

So Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet sent by God.

So Muslims believe Mohammad is also a prophet sent by God.

What do Muslims think about the Apostles, sent by Jesus to the four corners of the world? Did Christian’s distort the history of the work they did? The churches established by Paul, Peter, James, John, Thomas, Andrew, Bartholomew, etc…

What do Muslims think about those who followed the Apostles? Mark? Luke? Timothy? Etc.

What do Muslims believe about Ignatious, Polycarp, Justin?

Someone mentioned we are not people of the book. Our belief is not based on the book. I believe this. Our faith is built on living stone.

I can’t believe the Muslim claim that Jesus failed in His mission as soon as he started, any more than I can believe the Protestant claim to the same affect.

& I believe St Paul. If Jesus was not God, what was the point? If we don’t discern our God in the Eucharist, what’s the point?

What’s the point of Jerusalem if it doesn’t point to a better place? What’s the point if it points to another place here on earth (Mecca)? What’s the point of Rome if it points to Constantinople?

My understanding of Christianity is that everything points to God. We may not understand it, may not see it. But that’s the point. Everything points to God. Anything that does not, is false.

That’s what God revealed to us in Genesis. It’s what he revealed to us in Exodus, Deuteronomy, Numbers, Daniel, Isaiah, Malachi, Matthew, Acts, Phillipians, Philemon, Revelation.

If the Koran is telling us the same, that everything points to God, so be it. One day we’ll all share that understanding as it is God’s will that we’re all turned to Him. But if the Koran says Jesus is not God, I don’t understand how it points us to God.

What was from the beginning. What we have heard. What we have seen with our own eyes & touched with our hands concern the Word of life. For the life was made visible to us. We have seen it & testify to it & proclaim to you the everlasting life that was with the Father was made visible to us.

Very shortly: A man cannot be God and God is not human. That is just a conjecture which souls desire to follow. God is eternal and do not change(not incarnated).