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mhmtas63
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Which one? Father? Son? Holy Spirit?
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Fauken
Guest
In the Quran, which has all the reason in the world to say the Bible is corrupted. Which verses does it cite in Aramaic and/or Koine Greek?
You do know that Catholics do not use Scripture alone to support our beliefs, right? I can write you a sentence right now that could be interpreted seven different ways but only one of them is correct. The Devil can cite Scripture for his own purposes. They and you can cite whatever verses you want, but that doesn’t make your interpretation the correct one.
The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the three persons of the one and only Triune God.
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mhmtas63
Guest
No. God warn Christians not to do that.
- O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, “Three”; desist – it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs. (An-Nisa-4)
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Fauken
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PetraG
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It is an internally-inconsistent claim. Ask him what this “prophet” meant when he said “All that belongs to the Father is mine.” Ask for an explanation of John 6.
As C.S. Lewis said in Mere Christianity:
“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”
There is no evidence from the early Church that Jesus of Nazareth was merely another prophet. There is no evidence other than the witness of the early Church, and the witness of the early Church simply does not leave that option open. The idea that some other prophet is going to come along and say, "no, no, his followers got him all wrong, he was really a prophet prefiguring my message, whether that prophet is in earnest or not, does not have a leg to stand on.
The Mormons have the same problem, frankly. Their theology is supposed to be consistent with the New Testament, but the differences are irreconcilable.
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InternalRhyme
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No . . . Jesus does say He is the Son of God in the Bible. And states that he is from the Father. He also mentions the Holy Spirit. The Trinity. One God, three parts.
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mhmtas63
Guest
I can understand that. Our fathers related religion. But faith and religion must be established by God through a prophet (Jesus). So our fathers or others have no authority to establish a new faith and religion.
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Fauken
Guest
God was the one who gave His Church, the Catholic Church, the authority teach in His name, and He is the one who protects it from error per Matthew 16:18. It’s not new, it’s the same. All the charisms, doctrines, and authority come from Him alone.
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PetraG
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You do realize that the Gospels were written after St. Paul taught? And you realize that the Acts of the Apostles was written by the author of the Gospel of Luke? It is practically the Gospel of Luke, Vol. 2. You cannot use the Gospels as a resource without including the Acts of the Apostles.
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mhmtas63
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Yes Jesus mentioned that “Son of God” and He is from God. And also Jesus mentioned Holy Spirit. But Jesus did not tell anything about Trinity. Instead one God!
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Mark-12
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InternalRhyme
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But that is the Trinity. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. 1 God, 3 parts to the 1 God.
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Fauken
Guest
Jesus reciting the First Commandment is not a denial of His divinity. He rightfully says the Lord is our God, the Lord alone. And since Jesus is God, then that means… We are to obey Him with all our mind, soul, and strength.
*Persons not parts!
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mhmtas63
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So you claim that God gave Church the authority of making laws in faith and religion? That make everything very confusing.
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Fauken
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I don’t. God was the one who did it.
I disagree. Having an institution protected by God Himself from promoting error as truth makes things very simple. We are sheep, and He is our shepard.
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mhmtas63
Guest
The Lord is one. Jesus do not talk of Himself. Jesus talk about one Lord. I cannot see any idea of three!
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Fauken
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Correct.
According to your interpretation.
One God who is three persons, and He is one of those persons.
Why would you when you deny the Trinity to begin with?
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mhmtas63
Guest
I know many scandals and very evil acts in Church. That could not be allowed by God ofcourse if God lead and run it!
Our sheperd was Jesus and other prophets who were send by Father.
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Fauken
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Can you honestly tell me that there are no scandals or very evil acts committed by Muslims in the name of Islam despite Islam being the alleged true religion of God? God promised that Hell would not overrun the Church. He did not promise that no one would try to attack it or that everyone in it would magically stop sinning.
Psalm 23.
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mhmtas63
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There are many. That is just what I try to explain. Religion could be established just by God through prophets. Because God revealed prophets and lead them by Holy Spirit. But if you say that Holy Spirit run Church! Just do not try to explain me that.
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Fauken
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Except according to Islam, there are no more prophets after Mohammad, correct? How are we to discern between who is actually a prophet and who isn’t? How many problems do you imagine would be solved in Islam if Mohammed was around? Both of us use Scripture to prove our points, but in the end, we’re just two people. People can not only ignore these interpretations, but how can people know whose is correct? That’s where the Church comes in, for both prophets and doctrine. A Church protected by God from error can discern true prophets from false ones, and can publicly declare what is true and what is false without fear of errors creeping in. This gives credibility to both the prophet and the interpretation of Scripture.
Of course I’ll tell you that! I believe that the Holy Spirit is one person of the one Triune God. As the Holy Spirit is God, and God naturally is head of the Church, so too is the Holy Spirit the head of the Church.
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