Is Muhammad True Or False Prophet?

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hey Freedom, i don’t get you…what are you showing us by posts about banning the Bible or killing Christians? Jesus told us about this and it is no wonder. But we should keep trying till Jesus comes back again cuz the importance is about endurance as Jesus said.
 
freedomm said:
Proverbs
Chapter 31
The New American Bible

6 **Give strong drink to one who is perishing, and wine to the sorely depressed; **
7 When they drink, they will forget their misery, and think no more of their burdens

[usccb.org/nab/bible/proverbs/proverb31.htm]](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/proverbs/proverb31.htm])


are you fond of quoting out of context?

**The words of Lemuel, king of Massa. The advice which his mother gave him: ** 2
What, my son, my first-born! what, O son of my womb; what, O son of my vows!
3
Give not your vigor to women, nor your strength to those who ruin kings.
4
It is not for kings, O Lemuel, not for kings to drink wine; strong drink is not for princes!
5
Lest in drinking they forget what the law decrees, and violate the rights of all who are in need.
6
Give strong drink to one who is perishing, and wine to the sorely depressed;
7
When they drink, they will forget their misery, and think no more of their burdens.
8
Open your mouth in behalf of the dumb, and for the rights of the destitute;
9
Open your mouth, decree what is just, defend the needy and the poor!
10
When one finds a worthy wife, her value is far beyond pearls.
11
Her husband, entrusting his heart to her, has an unfailing prize.
12
 
I’m not getting the random quotes either. One was about a crazy woman, one was about a hospital which has removed bedside Bibles to avoid offending non-Christians, one was an out of context reference to Papal action against heresies and one was a clip of a Psalm.

I think this illustrates how differently we are looking at the world.

Because the books of the Bible were written over a span of some 1600 years by 40 some men yet it has multiple threads of unified themes that span cover to cover.

In contrast, the Qur’an is a jumble of disjointed material, without order, continuity or unity of any kind. So, maybe that is freedomm’s model for posting.
 
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inJESUS:
are you fond of quoting out of context?
Dear inJESUS:

No.

I am aware of full context of Proverbs 31:6-7, and also Rashi’s Commentry (Jewish) too.

Proverbs - Mishlei - Chapter 31
Rashi’s Commentary
  1. The words of Lemuel the king; a prophecy that his mother chastised him;
The words of Lemuel the king: The words of King Solomon, that he said for the Holy One, blessed be He, because he sinned against the Holy One, blessed be He.

Lemuel for God, like (Job 40: 4): “to (למו) my mouth.” The words that the king said for the sake of the Holy One, blessed be He.

a prophecy: that his mother chastised him When he married the daughter of Pharaoh on the day of the dedication of the Temple, she brought in for him many kinds of musical instruments, and he was awake all night and slept on the next day until four hours [after dawn], as is related in Pesikta (unknown, but found in Mid. Mishle and in Num. Rabbah 10:8), and the keys of the Temple were under his head. Regarding that time, we learned (Eduyoth 6:1): “Concerning the daily morning burnt-offering, that it was offered up at [the conclusion of] four hours. Then his mother entered and chastised him with all this prophecy.”

a prophecy that his mother chastised him An allegorical prophecy with which his mother chastised him.
  1. What, my son, and what, the son of my womb, and what, the son of my vows?
What, my son: What is this that you have done and told that you are my son, and [you did] not [tell] that you are the son of your father. Everybody knows that your father was completely righteous, and if you are wicked, they will say, “His mother made him that way.”

the son of my womb All your father’s wives, as soon as they conceived, would not return for marital relations, but I pushed and entered in order to have a son well-formed and of strong vitality, because marital relations are beneficial during the last six months.

and what, the son of my vows?: All your father’s wives would vow that they would have a son fit for the throne, but I vowed that I would have a son bright in Torah.

3.** Do not give your strength to women, nor your ways to the pleasures of kings.**

Do not give: Do not weaken.
your strength to women Heb. חילך, your strength.
  1. It is not for kings, Lemoel, it is not for kings to drink wine, neither is strong drink for rulers.
It is not for kings, Lemoel: This matter is not fit for kings who are for the Holy One, blessed be He. Lemoel is like (Job 40:4): “to (למו) my mouth.”
it is not for kings to drink wine It is not proper for them to become intoxicated.
neither is strong drink Heb. אי שכר, like אין שכר, there is no strong drink.
  1. Lest he drink and forget what was made law, and change the judgment of all the impoverished.
**what was made law: ** What is written in the Torah-and surely the tradition that is committed to memory.
  1. Give strong drink to the one who is perishing and wine to those of bitter soul.
to the one who is perishing: To him who will ultimately perish-to the wicked.

to those of bitter soul: Who suffer pain because of their poverty and their mourning. To give them pleasure in this world, so that they receive the reward for the precepts they kept, in this world, [leaving them with nothing in the hereafter.].
  1. Let him drink and forget his poverty, and let him remember his misery no more.
  2. Open your mouth for the dumb, to the cause of all whose help has passed.
**all whose help has passed: ** Heb. בני חלוף. These are the orphans, whose help has passed and gone away.
  1. Open your mouth, judge justly and plead the cause of the poor and the needy.
  2. A woman of valor who can find, for her price is beyond pearls.
  3. Her husband relies on her, and he will lack no gain.
and he will lack no gain: lit. no plunder, i.e., he will lack no good.
  1. She requites him with good and not with evil all the days of her life.
chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=16402&showrashi=true ]​

Relatively speaking, Jews knew and understand their Old Testament much better than most Christians, for various reasons.

Now, you should ask yourself verses 6 and 7, where do fit in:

cont…
 
Dear inJESUS:

Relatively speaking, Jews knew and understand their Old Testament much better than most Christians, for various reasons.

Now, you should ask yourself verses 6 and 7, where do fit in:

refutation,
correction,
and training in righteousness.


Because:

2 Timothy 3:16

16 **All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness, **

17 so that one who belongs to God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

And as per New American Bible:

**All scripture is inspired by God: ** this could possibly also be translated, “All scripture inspired by God is useful for. . . .” In this classic reference to inspiration, God is its principal author, with the writer as the human collaborator. Thus the scriptures are the word of God in human language. See also 2 Peter 1:20-21.

[usccb.org/nab/bible/2timothy/2timothy3.htm#foot4]](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/2timothy/2timothy3.htm#foot4])​
 
I think all of this is somehow moving toward the goal of persuading Christians that the Bible teaches error and/or corrupted.

I would suggest trying a new tactic because this mode of debate is not persuasive. How many hundreds of posts of Bible quotes, articles and historical events taken out of context must we be subjected to before you realize that not one person has become Muslim on this forum as a result of your efforts?

What are you hoping to achieve with all of this, freedomm?
 
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Eden:
What are you hoping to achieve with all of this, freedomm?
Dear Eden:

You should ask this question to the person who started this thread under the title “Is Muhammad True Or False Prophet?”

Because with this type of efforts can only increase the passion to know Islam in sincere truth seeking non-Muslims and even in Muslims.

Thus despite Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi’s negative remarks about Islam, there is no surprise at all that his own country’s honorable people like Ambassador of Italy to Saudi Arabia, Torquato Cardeilli embraced Islam. Few year ago, an another Ambassador of Italy, **Mario Scialoja ** shocked everyone when he converted to Islam.He was at that time Rome’s permanent representative to the United Nations in New York. He was later posted to Saudi Arabia as Italy’s ambassador in 1994-95.

By the way, to keep the record straight, Prime Minister Silvio, later insisted that his comments were misinterpreted by a hostile left-wing Italian press and has since outlined his “deep respect for Islam” as “**a great religion.”] **

islam-online.net/english/News/2001-11/26/article7.shtml]

And also there is no surpirse that an another honorable person of the West, German Ambassador to Algeria, Dr.Wilfried Hofmann and many more have embraced Islam.

see: [islamonline.net/English/News/2003-10/25/article06.shtml]](http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2003-10/25/article06.shtml]) and

[islam-online.net/english/News/2001-11/26/article7.shtml]](http://www.islam-online.net/english/News/2001-11/26/article7.shtml]) and

[islamonline.net/askaboutislam/Guestcv.asp?hMuftiID=76]](http://www.islamonline.net/askaboutislam/Guestcv.asp?hMuftiID=76])​

As to:
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Eden:
How many hundreds of posts of Bible quotes, articles and historical events taken out of context must we be subjected to before you realize that not one person has become Muslim on this forum as a result of your efforts?
Do you know how many centuries it took for people like Martin Luther to know what RCC is all about?

Do you also know how long it took, for most Anglican Bishops type people to realise that Jesus is actually not God from their Scriptures point-of-view?
 
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freedomm:
You should ask this question to the person who started this thread under the title “Is Muhammad True Or False Prophet?”

Because with this type of efforts can only increase the passion to know Islam in sincere truth seeking non-Muslims and even in Muslims.
But the thread is asking if Muhammed is a false prophet or not. Have you even responded to that question?
Do you know how many centuries it took for people like Martin Luther to know what RCC is all about?
Martin Luther was not guided by the Holy Spirit. He is a heretic.
Do you also know how long it took, for most Anglican Bishops type people to realise that Jesus is actually not God from their Scriptures point-of-view?
Again, using heretics as examples is not effective.
 
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freedomm:
Do you also know how long it took, for most Anglican Bishops type people to realise that Jesus is actually not God from their Scriptures point-of-view?[/INDENT]
Umm … hate to dissapoint you freedomm, but the vast majority, if not all, Anglicans actually do believe that Jesus is God.
 
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Eden:
But the thread is asking if Muhammed is a false prophet or not. Have you even responded to that question?
Dear Eden:

Did you realise the flaw in your logic and reasoning?

You are asking me **“Have you even responded to that question?”, ** then in the same breath you are making a bold staement:


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Eden:
**Martin Luther was not guided by the Holy Spirit. He is a heretic. **
as if Luther was in fact a heretic.

He may be a heretic in your eyes and faith but not in the opinions/eyes all of those millions of Protestants who protest teachings of your Church because in their opinions/eyes your Church make no sense.

Your opinion is basically a relative thing and it is relative as much as of Luther and his followers’ opinion.

Are you telling me that Luther’s knowledge of his scriptures was not even equal to your knowledge? Was he a dumb and ignorant?

Then as to “**Anglican Bishops type people”, ** you said:
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Eden:
…using heretics as examples is not effective.
you mean even these Anglican Bishops are so ignorants and their views/opinions have no impact on their followers? Is that the reason many modern day Christians go further and eveb reject the ‘miracles, wonders and signs’ of Jesus? And they even forget this clear Peter’s public testimony after the Pentecost:

Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you, by miracles, and wonders, and signs, which God did by him, in the midst of you, as you also know:

Did you realise what Peter dare to say:

Jesus was:
  • a man approved of God (why? because he was not God)
  • he was among the men of Israel (why? because he not an alien from Mars)
  • all miracles, wonders and signs were actually done by his God, why?
  • Because he himself was not God, why?
    Because even in your strange so called Trinity (which is more ridicluous than Hinduism’s Trimurty), the Son is always the second ‘person’ and not first or third, why? (check out the ancient heresies, if anyone change the sequence of Trinity’s ‘persons’!! )
    Because *the Father * who is the first ‘person’ in your Trinity idea is not considered same as second ‘person’ neither the third ‘person’ (Holy Ghost) is same as the first or second ‘persons’.
As such even from your own flawed dogma of Trinity, Jesus can never be God.

.

Not to mention the whole context of John 10:30.​

 
Oh great, so now freedomm has become a moral relativist. All bets are off now, I guess. :rolleyes:
 
Freedom,
the post is about mohammad, and you constantly go off on a tangent about other things, are you that insecure about the truth, that you have to ramble on without making any sense, with no understanding of the truth.
All I can say to you is this, you can say anything you want, but in the end the truth will be known to all men, and I pray that you will accept it before you are judged.

Eashoa’ M’sheekha’
 
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LilyM:
Umm … hate to dissapoint you freedomm, but the vast majority, if not all, Anglicans actually do believe that Jesus is God.
Dear LilyM:

Clearly you did not read my post properly.

I did not say: all Anglicans.

I said**: “most Anglican Bishops type people”**. Why I said this? Because: (please read the following carefully)

Muslims are not the only ones who believe that Jesus (pbuh) is mortal and not a god. The Jews also believe this, in addition to the very first groups of Christianity such as the Ebonites, the Cerinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians. The Arians, Paulicians and Goths also accepted Jesus (pbuh) as a prophet of God. Even in the modern age there are churches in Asia, in Africa, the Unitarian church, the Jehovah’s witnesses, and even the majority of today’s Anglican Bishops do not worship Jesus (pbuh) as God.

In the British newspaper the “Daily News” 25/6/84 under the heading “Shock survey of Anglican Bishops”, we read:

**"More than half of England’s Anglican Bishops ** say that Christians are not obliged to believe that Jesus Christ was God, according to a survey published today.

The pole of 31 of England’s 39 bishops shows that many of them think that Christ’s miracles, the virgin birth and the resurrection might not have happened exactly as described in the Bible.

Only 11 of the bishops insisted that Christians must regard Christ as both God and man, while 19 said it was sufficient to regard Jesus as ‘God’s supreme agent’" -----**“Daily News” 25/6/84 **

But what is a messenger of God? Is he not “God’s supreme agent” ?. This is indeed what God Himself has already told us in the noble Qur’an 1400 years ago, and exactly what Jesus (pbuh) himself testified to in the Bible:

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." -----Gospel of John 17:3

Astounding, isn’t it? With every passing day, the most learned among the Christian community are slowly recognizing the truth and drawing closer and closer to Islam. These are not Muslims who issued this statement. These are not “liberal” Christians. These are the most learned and most highly esteemed men of the Anglican Church. These men have dedicated their whole lives to the study of the religion of Jesus, and their study has driven them to the truth which God had already revealed to them in the Qur’an 1400 years ago: That Jesus was not God. That God is not a Trinity. And that the stories of the ministry of Jesus in the Bible have been extensively tampered with by the hands of mankind.

"And when Allah said: O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he said: Be You glorified. It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then You knew it. You know what is in my [innermost] self but I know not what is in Yours. Truly! You, only You are the Knower of things hidden. I spoke unto them only that which You commanded me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness over them while I dwelt among them, and when You took me You were the Watcher over them, and You are Witness over all things." ------The noble Qur’an, Al-Maidah(5):116-118​

Details:

[wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.3.1.html]](http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.3.1.html])

 
freedomm, just because people are straying from doctrinal issues of Christianity doesn’t mean they’re closer to becoming Muslims.
 
what on earth is this person talking about? mixing ideas and Bible verses and opinions all together…

Hey Freedom, Ghulam Ahmad does not consider mohammad the last prophet …i guess he must be right according to your logic. Many muslims say that quran asks you to kill non-muslims, i guess they are correct according to your logic…those muslims who converted to Christianity must be correct according to your logic as well. Freedom, you are hopeless.
 
back to our topic, did mohammad come in the line of Biblical prophets? no
Did he give the same teachings as them? no
Did he give the same teachings of Jesus? no
was he prophecized? no
Did he give teachings that God calls “shameful”? yes.
Did he lead a sinful sexual life according to the Bible? yes
who said he is a prophet? jibreel. Who heard Jibreel? only mohammad. God NEVER revealed himself in this doubtful way.

Is the quran from God? well if you consider that God quotes fables/ myth ,apocryphal Bibles and Talmud, then yes.

The only way muslims can be sure is to find the mysterious Bible that supports their claims, which happened to disappear for 3000 years although allah said he preserved the Bible.
 
To all who contribute to the discussion here so far.

I ask for this thread for frank personal assessment on Muhammad on whether he is true or false prophet. Ultimately, of course, it is not for us to decide and this applies to both religions (Christianity and Muslims) pertaining to the question of faith.

Having said that, please bear in mind that this forum offers wide opportunity to discuss various inter-religious issues. I feel the title of this thread is valid and that it enables us to air our opinion freely. To serve what purpose? I don’t know. What I know is that question on Muhammad is certainly relevant to Christians when we talk about Islam.

Why? Because Islam claims that Muhammad is the last prophets and confirming all other prophets before him. Many of these other prophets are figures recognized as existing in Christianity. Yet Islamic’ understanding of the teaching of these prophets is very much different from that of Christianity’, not to say those that simply contradict it.

On the other hand, Muslims are quick to attack the inerrancy of the Bible and that the portrayal of Jesus by his disciples as false. Where did Muslims get these ideas? They are certainly from the Quran! Since we cannot separate the Quran from Muhammad, it is reasonable to say that Muhammad too plays a part in this. Since this is a matter of faith, one side must be wrong, that is, either Christianity or Islam. To determine that, surely questions should be asked of Muhammad. For fairness, like I said, similarly there is another thread created about Paul.

**The observation here is this: ** The accusations on Paul have frittered as fast as they appear after being proven that those accusations are wrong. On the other hand in this thread, Muslims seem to shy away from discussing about Muhammad. What are they afraid of? Muslims debating tactic of deviating away from the topic is one such example. To me, this in itself tells us a very big story. The idea that Muhammad is a true prophet of God is pathetically wrong.

If Muslims decline to discuss about Muhammad, that’s to their disadvantage and I have to make the conclusion above. Notice that we welcome the debate on Paul because we believe the truth withstands the scrutiny of the light. It is lies that disintegrated at the shining light of truth because lies are borne out of darkness and so in the darkness it will be.

May God bless you all.

Reuben
 
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inJESUS:
hey Freedom, i don’t get you…what are you showing us by posts about banning the Bible or killing Christians? Jesus told us about this and it is no wonder. But we should keep trying till Jesus comes back again cuz the importance is about endurance as Jesus said.
Has freedomm posted anything that has to do with the subject of this thread; Is Muhammad True or False Prophet, or is he simply changing the subject to one that suits him once again? Keep it up freedomm, maybe you can get this thread closed as well. :rolleyes:
 
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inJESUS:
back to our topic, did mohammad come in the line of Biblical prophets? no
Did he give the same teachings as them? no
Did he give the same teachings of Jesus? no
was he prophecized? no
Did he give teachings that God calls “shameful”? yes.
Did he lead a sinful sexual life according to the Bible? yes
who said he is a prophet? jibreel. Who heard Jibreel? only mohammad. God NEVER revealed himself in this doubtful way.

Is the quran from God? well if you consider that God quotes fables/ myth ,apocryphal Bibles and Talmud, then yes.

The only way muslims can be sure is to find the mysterious Bible that supports their claims, which happened to disappear for 3000 years although allah said he preserved the Bible.
umm… the the answer to most of these questions would be ‘opinions’ and consdering your opinion on Islam I think what would the answers be…but lets not forget facts…
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was a descendent of Abraham just like Jesus and Moses (pbut).
 
Muslim,

Perhaps you would be so kind as to answer a question for me? Why is Muhammad considered the greatest prophet when he is the only one to by deceived by Satan and to recite the devil’s words as God’s? This has never made any logical sense to me. It seems he is the “greatest” only because Muslims believe him to be the last. Thank you in advance!
 
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