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Spirithound
Guest
She had the obligation to the Catholic Church as a baptized Catholic.
But I also left my post a little ambiguous…“No they’re not” also comments on “…eyes of God…eyes of the Catholic Church…two different things”
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But I also left my post a little ambiguous…“No they’re not” also comments on “…eyes of God…eyes of the Catholic Church…two different things”
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puzzleannie
Guest
no way to answer without knowing all the facts, and it is not worthwhile to go into them here. The priest who prepared you for confirmation should have asked you for this information and looked into your marriage situation at that time. If he did not, the fault is his, not yours. On the face of it, it seems as if your marriage to a Catholic must be convalidated, because your Catholic spouse married without proper form; and this should have been done before your own Confirmation. But there are too many other variables to discuss the situation intelligently here.
. The two of you together should make an appointment with your pastor, or the person he delegates, lay out all the facts of your situation, and take whatever steps are necessary. If you have not already done so, you can make arrangments for your son’s baptism at the same time.
Welcome Home! just like moving into a new house, sometimes it takes a bit longer to get everything where it belongs, but you can do this, it is actually a rather simple process, but should be addressed sooner rather than later. Objectively, two persons in an invalid marriage are not in a state of grace, but no one can make that judgement in a specific case here long distance. see your priest and find peace of mind.
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Alix1912
Guest
Actually you are incorrect. Both of my husband’s priests confirmed for us that we were indeed married in God’s eyes, even before we went thru radical sanation. We just weren’t recognized by the Catholic Church.
If you are saying that the OP is not married…then by default you are saying their son was born out of wedlock…regardless of which word you use to describe that situation that is what you are saying.
Remember God also looks at intent. Not just the “rules” of the Catholic Church. If they entered into their marriage with the intent of honoring their vows…they are married. They just have to get their marriage recognized by the Catholic Church.
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convert38
Guest
My husband and I just went through a similar situation. I was not catholic when we got married, he was and the local priest had refused marry us since we
Were expecting our first child. So we married in a UUC church and NO marriage prep. Here the deal- since I was not catholic it did not count *** a sin for me to marry however since my husband was catholic it was a sin, since all Catholics have a duty to marry in the church. Yes your marriage is valid in all senses but sacramental in the churches eyes you’ll need to have it blessed. Its simple and painless and can happen after mass. Talk to your priest, if he gives you a hard time find another.
Were expecting our first child. So we married in a UUC church and NO marriage prep. Here the deal- since I was not catholic it did not count *** a sin for me to marry however since my husband was catholic it was a sin, since all Catholics have a duty to marry in the church. Yes your marriage is valid in all senses but sacramental in the churches eyes you’ll need to have it blessed. Its simple and painless and can happen after mass. Talk to your priest, if he gives you a hard time find another.
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Phemie
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puzzleannie
Guest
nobody is saying any of this specific to OP’s situation
the answers (the correct ones anyhow, most are incorrect, incomplete or just plain wrong) are dealing with the general rules. OP will not get an answer helpful to his specific case until he visits his priest. The status of the child is not an issue in any way, shape or form, so why bring it up?
It is not very helpful, in general, to a new Catholic asking a sincere question on a matter that could impinge on the condition of his soul, or that of his wife, to give an answer filtered through the prism of one’s own resentment, bitterness, dissent or disagreements regarding Catholic teaching on marriage as it applies to the responder’s personal situation. It is far more helpful to state the actual teaching or supply a reference, and direct the questioner to the most cogent solution to his current dilemma.
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Spirithound
Guest
It sounds like your husband’s priests were being a little too “pastoral”.
The Catholic Church does not insist that she is the only body that can effect grace. The Church recognizes Protestant baptisms. Why? Because they are valid. Valid baptisms cannot be redone.
The Catholic Church recognizes marriages between Protestants. Because those Protestants did what they were bound by their own rules to do.
The Church does not recognize a marriage attempted by a Catholic outside the Church without dispensation. Why? Because they are invalid. They must be redone.
God looks at intent, but he also looks at the act itself.
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joanofarc2008
Guest
Were either of you a baptized Catholic when you were married in your other Church because this is what makes the difference and seems to be the point you are missing.
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
Radical Sanation recognized the original marriage and does not require any ceremony or renewed marital consent. The OP can apply for such, as convert38 could have.
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familyof4
Guest
It could very well be that the priest in the OPs parish overlooked asking about where the marriage took place-- stranger omission have been made. I have my own stories of miscommunication, but they’re OT from the original questions. 
My dh and I had our marriage con-validated last month. While some of the leg work was tedious, the ceremony itself was wonderful, and although I wish we had “done it right the first time” and married in the Church, it was lovely to be at a point in our lives where we are both on the same path, and practicing our now shared faith.
A con-validation is a very simple ceremony. We had our immediate family, closest relatives and a handful of friends (we filled two pews). It meant more to me than I can say. Although I don’t feel more married, I am very happy to have the sacrament of marriage as recognized by our Church.
My dh and I had our marriage con-validated last month. While some of the leg work was tedious, the ceremony itself was wonderful, and although I wish we had “done it right the first time” and married in the Church, it was lovely to be at a point in our lives where we are both on the same path, and practicing our now shared faith.
A con-validation is a very simple ceremony. We had our immediate family, closest relatives and a handful of friends (we filled two pews). It meant more to me than I can say. Although I don’t feel more married, I am very happy to have the sacrament of marriage as recognized by our Church.
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Seatuck
Guest
Everything we do is in the eyes of God. But when we disobey our church this is not pleasing to him and he does not give approval to our actions.Christ gave the church the power to bind and loosen. Anything bound on earth by the church is bound in heaven. A catholic who marries improperly has contracted an invalid wedding that has not been bound in heaven. This means ,essentially ,no marital covenant took place, except for whatever legal requirements were fulfilled.
This is why convalidation or radical sanation is necessary. To apply that marital covenant.
This is why convalidation or radical sanation is necessary. To apply that marital covenant.
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
I think you are missing something, the part where god rewrote Natural Moral Law to remove the call infused in man to marry. Until you provide a reasonable proof of that I will never accept your current position. I can tell you dozens of others hold your position equally and why they do is beyond me. From the garden of Eden marriage has been practiced the view that all marriage is adultery and fornication until a priest wonders by is …lets say at contridiction with the catechism, bible, church teaching, and most interpretations.
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laszlo
Guest
The parish which gave you the first communion and confirmation should had been care about the problem. You are living in good faith with your family.
Right now
- do not worry, that helps nothing
- go to your pastor, explain your case to him, and follow his advises.
- God loves you, and want to be good Catholic family.
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Phemie
Guest
Not all marriages, only those of Catholics. God calls us to listen to his Church. She has laid down the law concerning marriage for her faithful. God calls us to be obedient to those laws. It’s really very simple.
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Spirithound
Guest
Can. 1108 §1. Only those marriages are valid which are contracted before the local ordinary, pastor, or a priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who assist, and before two witnesses according to the rules expressed in the following canons and without prejudice to the exceptions mentioned in cann. ⇒ 144, ⇒ 1112, §1, ⇒ 1116, and ⇒ 1127, §§1-2.
(Canon Law only applies to Catholics.)
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
The OP was not Catholic
(you can find that in writting on Canon number one.)
Would you go back and read post #32 I understand it was posted to another person. By the way I hope you know the meaning of the word “valid” as used in Canon 1108, and explain that properly to all you make these statements. Also you may want to mention to them the book of Canon Law which is rather significant, as is the Part, Title, and Chapter once those contexts are properly installed there is considerably different meaning. And please by all means explain to them the Radical Sanation method used by the Church to recognize the marriage which as you write never occurred. - thanks
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Phemie
Guest
His wife was and the canon applied to her. As for radical sanation, the marriage is valid from the day the radical sanation is granted.
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Alix1912
Guest
Agreed. People have been getting married in the Bible long before the advent of the Catholic Church. Take the wedding at Cana…Christ had not yet begun his ministry he did not officiate the wedding he was merely a guest. Were that Bride and Groom not married in the eyes of God?
There is a difference between a valid marriage in the eyes of God and in the recording of the Catholic Church. I’m not saying that Catholics should ignore the teachings of the Church, but if a mistake is made and they are not married per the Catholic Canon Law, it doesn’t mean they aren’t married, they just need to get straightened out with the Catholic Church.
Seriously it’s not something to freak out about. It isn’t protestants trying to wreck the Catholic Church, or anyone saying that following canon law isn’t important. However people were getting married long before Canon Law, Convalidation, and Radical Sanation were written down or solidified. The OP is trying to do the right thing and no one here has encouraged him to do otherwise.
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Alix1912
Guest
My husband and I went through radical sanation…however we are still going to celebrate our anniversary on the day we stood up in front of God, our Families and Two men of God (Lutheran Pastors) in a church and pledged to love and honor each other till death do us part, not the day a piece of paper arrived from the Bishop.
Sorry Marriage is about more than just paperwork and “rules”…it’s about the actual commitment to spouse and declaring that to each other in front of God. It’s a sacrament between two people that a minister (priest) in the Catholic Church officates, but he doesn’t institute like the Eucharist. The day the OP and his wife committed to each other is the day they got married. The fact that it might be illicit in the eyes of the Catholic Church does not change the love and the pledged that they made then, those were valid in God’s eyes then and are still now.
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dans0622
Guest
To no one in particular,
Everyone (with some exceptions for truly extraordinary circumstances) would respect the laws of the state when it comes to marriage. So, if people do not observe the civil law regarding marriage–whether they knew they were not following it or not–no one is afraid to say “Um, you might think you’re married but you’re not.” For example, if two people go out on a beach or just go into a church and say “I do” nobody will say “Oh, great, you got married!”
If the couple did this, thought they were married, and said “Marriage is more than just a piece of paper” the onlookers might say “Of course. That doesn’t mean the paper has no meaning and you can do whatever you want, thinking you can make your own law.”
The point is, civil and ecclesiastical law has requirements for the public celebration of marriage. If a citizen of a state or of the Church ignores those requirements and tries to marry in some other manner, the Church or state will not consider the citizen to be married. As a visible society, it is well within the purview of the Church to require that her members observe canonical form. The Church could, someday, say that any public celebration is sufficient. That day is not today, though.
Dan
Everyone (with some exceptions for truly extraordinary circumstances) would respect the laws of the state when it comes to marriage. So, if people do not observe the civil law regarding marriage–whether they knew they were not following it or not–no one is afraid to say “Um, you might think you’re married but you’re not.” For example, if two people go out on a beach or just go into a church and say “I do” nobody will say “Oh, great, you got married!”
If the couple did this, thought they were married, and said “Marriage is more than just a piece of paper” the onlookers might say “Of course. That doesn’t mean the paper has no meaning and you can do whatever you want, thinking you can make your own law.”
The point is, civil and ecclesiastical law has requirements for the public celebration of marriage. If a citizen of a state or of the Church ignores those requirements and tries to marry in some other manner, the Church or state will not consider the citizen to be married. As a visible society, it is well within the purview of the Church to require that her members observe canonical form. The Church could, someday, say that any public celebration is sufficient. That day is not today, though.
Dan
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