Based on these scenarios, you will either be satisfied with an explanation or an action, or you won’t. If you have not been satisfied, then you have to weigh the option of simply going to another parish until that priest is eventually transfered.
Thanks Mickey. Very interesting stuff that I will get more into later.
I put myself into a group of people who don’t know yet what I am “supposed to believe” from those snips from Vat2. I look at them and believe that my knowledge of what the HS is trying to say there is lacking. Not because I am an idiot, but because I don’t think enough has been said. I wait to see what is said further on the topic. In the meantime, I feel free to interpret those words so that they do not conflict with any aspect of Church teaching. Thus, I do not think those words are meant to say that the Koran is actual Divine Revelation from the one true God. I see no support in the Vat2 texts to figure that, and the idea (that the Koran is part of Divine Revelation) is repugnant to me.
Yes, Jesus did say this (John 14:6). However, perhaps he meant that he will judge as to who enters eternal life - heaven - and maybe that includes those who worship the one true God. Or, even those who through no fault of their own are of other faith - or no faith. He also said that he had sheep not of this fold. I think we should be slow to judge others lest we be judged, as Jesus also said. He also said something about casting the first stone.
There are millions of Christians, including wonderful Catholics, who are ready to dialogue with and respect other faiths. I can't believe for a moment that Christ would be against this. My God certainly is a loving deity who is slow to anger and understands all the impulses, ignorances, and aspirations of his vulnerable, earthly children.
My guess is that this particular priest said that the word of God could be found in the Koran (Qu'ran). There is some truth in this. Frankly, I find evidence of God's word in the scriptures of many faiths. St. Paul tells us this.
In any case, he must be both a learned and empathetic priest. We need more such perceptive and open-minded clergy of every religion to help cure this world of its narrowness and bigotry. Again, God bless him and bless all humankind, of whatever race, creed or color.Exactly!So, if I understand you correctly (and I’m putting this with the context of your exegesis, even though I excluded it from the section I quoted), you are differentiating between salvation and worship?
I think I can understand your point there, and I might agree, I just want to make sure I understand your point of view before I continue.
Being a “worshipper of God” and being “saved” are two distinct things. To say a person is a “worshipper of God” does not necessarily place that person on equal spiritual footing with a Christian. Worship, at least in contemporary English, simply means to render honor and homage to a divinity.It would NOT be worship then it would be “false worship” which is NO worship at all.Exactly!
God Bless,
Michael
The Muslims identify the object of their worship as the God who revelead Himself to Abraham, Moses, etc. Since they identify the God of Abraham as the object of their worship, they objectively worship God. To God, however, Mohammed attached a false revelation. So while the Koran is purpotedly from the God they worship, it truly is not. Again, we must remember that to say someone is a “worshipper of God” does not make that person the spiritual equivalent of a Christian or make Islam a true religion. Nor does it mean that this person should not be evangelized. Take for example Lydia, the first European convert. Lydia is described as a “worshipper of God”, but she was not saved until after Paul preached the Gospel to her.
Objectively it is worship. Lydia was a “worshipper of God” prior to being saved.
Is a false Christ still Christ?
Martin,
I am speaking of worship as an objective reality. For example, Paul says of the pagan Athenians:
Each of us is without excuse, we are intrinsically given the knowledge of the true God.
I agree with you Martin.
Some of those people you speak of as living in total darkness, pray to God constantly and do works of mercy for their neighbors. But they have differences in how they see God and approach him. I don’t need to tell you that this exists withing the Christian community as well, although not to the same degree. For instance, you may think that you can approach God through Faith alone and that nothing else matters and that by the simple act of Faith, your salvation is assured. Catholics, on the otherhand, think that you need to act out your faith through works of mercy and love to be saved and that you need to lead a sacramental life. You may not believe you need the sacraments to gain God’s graces. So its a matter of degrees that you are arguing. Do you see Catholics as missing out on salvation in the same way that you see Muslims, out of curiousity?
We all can approach God through Christ by faith alone, our works isn’t what allows the bridge between a Holy and righteous God and a born in wrath man…
God in Arabic is “Allah” and God is called Allah among Christian Arabs.
Like I said, “worshipping God” and having a salvific relationship with Him are two distinct things. That’s why Paul says the following:
Martin are these all scripural verses examples of people personally approaching God through Christ by faith alone? I see a mixture of intermediate mediation through friends, and cases of Jesus proactively saving individuals out of pity and mercy and no blood covered on anyone at all. Where these people saved by sola fide or where there other things going on here as well (e.g subordinate intercessionary faith or God’s elective Mercy, pre-destiny or just being in the right place atthe right time)?
