Is Obama trying to divide the Catholic Church?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Galnextdoor
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
G

Galnextdoor

Guest
As long as they support him, I don’t think President Obama cares about Catholics or the Catholic Church.
 
I thinks he see the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, the Kennedys et al and figures they are the voice and face of the Catholic Church. He thinks “orthodox” Catholics are some right wing fringe group>like the extremists Muslims to are to the general Muslim population.

In the end, you have to put the blame back on the Church. I don’t care what anyone says, when other Catholics see that it is okay for the Kennedys, Biden & Pelosi to be “cafeteria Catholics” and not suffer any consequences for it, then they are going to follow suit.

You allow what you permit.
 
I don’t think we’re even on his radar. Unfortunately we just happen to be receiving most of the collateral damage to some of his decisions and policies.

As far as that particular speech at ND goes, hats off to the staffers who found a ghostwriter who fit their needs – as much as I may not agree with them. I’m sure that every administration had a Catholic go-to person as much as they did for other faiths and matters concerning them. I highly doubt that anyone in the admin had even heard of Fr. Hesburgh until the draft of this speech was handed in.

And yes, I must sadly agree with an earlier reply, we Catholics do all too good of a job dividing ourselves already.

Peace
 
I think Obama went to Notre Dame specifically to obtain approval and affirmation from one of America’s most prestigious and well-known Catholic Universities.

Since he has obtained this stamp of approval from probably the best known Catholic University in the United States, after all Notre Dame University invited him to obtain an Honorary Doctor of Laws degree and to have the honor of giving the Commencement Address, despite Obama’s Pro-Death policies, this could and probably will raise his standing among Catholic voters and ease the consciences of those who voted for him in the 2008 Election and who may vote for him in the 2012 Election, even though it would be a morally wrong to vote for Obama.
 
Obama is using the Catholic Church to secure votes and for him to show Americans how open he is to dialogue. After all, he is Protestant, and by snuggling up to Catholics makes him look good. Make no mistake, every thing he does is calculated and serves a purpose…his. He is already trying to secure his reelection campaign, and by kissing the feet of Catholics is one way he will win…unless we show him different.
 
turtle18 said:
I thinks he see the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, the Kennedys et al and figures they are the voice and face of the Catholic Church. He thinks “orthodox” Catholics are some right wing fringe group>like the extremists Muslims to are to the general Muslim population.

In the end, you have to put the blame back on the Church. I don’t care what anyone says, when other Catholics see that it is okay for the Kennedys, Biden & Pelosi to be “cafeteria Catholics” and not suffer any consequences for it, then they are going to follow suit.

You allow what you permit.
Click to expand...
Yep to all that. You said what I was going to.
 
turtle18 said:
I thinks he see the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, the Kennedys et al and figures they are the voice and face of the Catholic Church. He thinks “orthodox” Catholics are some right wing fringe group>like the extremists Muslims to are to the general Muslim population.

In the end, you have to put the blame back on the Church. I don’t care what anyone says, when other Catholics see that it is okay for the Kennedys, Biden & Pelosi to be “cafeteria Catholics” and not suffer any consequences for it, then they are going to follow suit.

You allow what you permit.
Click to expand...
I sympathize with what you write, but God allows freedom of choice and can he church be any less? The Catholic Church can’t be in the business of policing, can they? It seems to work against the very idea of free will.
 
Fitz said:
I sympathize with what you write, but God allows freedom of choice and can he church be any less? The Catholic Church can’t be in the business of policing, can they? It seems to work against the very idea of free will.
Click to expand...
No, but the Church can do its job, which is to teach the truth come what may.
 
RobbyS said:
No, but the Church can do its job, which is to teach the truth come what may.
Click to expand...
Teaching is one thing, but policing is another. I don’t think public ridicule is what they had in mind.

Obama does not need to divide Catholics. The division exists. He is capitalizing on the division and making is seem to the uneducated that he is reaching out to his opposition. He is doing what all politicians do. However, it is our responsibility as faithful Catholics not to be fooled by these efforts. We still need to see abortion for what it really is.
 
turtle18 said:
I thinks he see the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, the Kennedys et al and figures they are the voice and face of the Catholic Church. He thinks “orthodox” Catholics are some right wing fringe group>like the extremists Muslims to are to the general Muslim population.

In the end, you have to put the blame back on the Church. I don’t care what anyone says, when other Catholics see that it is okay for the Kennedys, Biden & Pelosi to be “cafeteria Catholics” and not suffer any consequences for it, then they are going to follow suit.

You allow what you permit.
Click to expand...
I agree in principle, but allow me to play devil’s advocate. Is it possible that the Church believes if it brings down the hammer on Pelosi, Biden, Kennedy, etc., such action will turn Washington into a place where “Catholics need not apply”?

i.e., would doing so validate the time-worn American prejudice, “Look - all Catholic politicians must be tools of the Pope, or be excommunicated!”

The dilemma therefore being:

Do we publicly excommunicate these politicians as a warning/moment of teaching to cafeteria Catholics who will only be hardened in their stance by the perceived “injustice”,

or

Do we continue to proclaim the Truth, and leave the politicians be in order to preserve what potential we have to influence policy with authentic Catholic politicians, who may not be as powerful as Pelosi, et al., but would certainly suffer collateral damage from the resurrection of the old prejudices if a purge took place?

I don’t pretend to have the answer, but I think it’s not as simple as we think.

What the bishops need to decide is whether the group that is in there right now is imperiling enough souls that it’s worth cashing in the ability of future generations of Catholic politicians to influence policy and legislation.
 
Fitz said:
I sympathize with what you write, but God allows freedom of choice and can he church be any less? The Catholic Church can’t be in the business of policing, can they? It seems to work against the very idea of free will.
Click to expand...
A Catholic must SUBMIT to the Truth as taught by our Church.Period.Otherwise they should NOT call themselves Catholic as it gives Catholics who live their Faith a bad name and causes scandal.Do you want us to turn into Episcopalians or the United Church and stand for nothing?I doubt that I’ve heard a more ridiculous assertion on this board.Can’t afford to offend anyone’s sensibility vis a vis free-will,MUCH better not to reprimand them and let them trot off to Hell.

If they won’t LIVE their Faith,let them NOT BE Catholics.

Most are CINOS or Cultural Catholics who do not paricipate in the Life of the Church other than to confuse others both Catholic and non-Catholic and bring scandal.
 
"If they won’t LIVE their Faith,let them NOT BE Catholics’

Sorry.I should have said let them NOT CALL themselves Catholic.They ceased "being"Catholics long ago.
 
I subscribe to a daily publication and I today’s first reading fits this question perfectly when it comes to Obama and also the problem of secularism and the twisting by our so-called Catholics especially in our universities.
Retreat Master: Fr. Rory Pitstick, SSL

For scripture readings of the day: nccbuscc.org/nab/

2009 May 27 Wed:Easter Weekday/ Augustine of Canterbury, bp, r, ms
Acts 20:28-38/ Ps 67(68):29-30. 33-35a. 35bc-36ab/ Jn 17:11b-19

From today’s readings: “ I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock… Sing to God, O kingdoms of the earth… And I consecrate Myself for them, so that they also may be consecrated in truth.”
**
Truth Twisters**

Paul’s exhortation to the presbyters of Ephesus was for them to “Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers…” (Acts 20:28). Notice that, as is regularly emphasized throughout scripture, moral watchfulness begins with self, before being extended to include guidance of others. And Paul emphasizes commitment to the full truth of the faith, warning against the wolves that will come forward “perverting the truth.”

If we are to commit ourselves to the full truth of our faith, we need, first of all, to know the Truth. Wolves are able to lead disciples astray, not so much because they lie outright, but because they “pervert the truth,” that is, they say something that has elements of truth, but the truth is twisted. This is seen, for instance, among pro-abortion forces who couch their advocacy in language of “pro-choice” and “pro-privacy.” In themselves, “choice” and “privacy” are indeed values to be defended, but never at the cost of another’s life!

Whenever the Church’s teaching is spurned, it is almost always on the basis of a “twisted truth.” Paul’s exhortation reminds us to take the time and effort to pursue the fulness of truth, first for ourselves and the matters of our own lives, and then to aid others in the quest for the untwisted truth.

==================================================
If for any reason you do not receive your daily retreat, please go to
www.ihrc.net to read it.
 
Soutane said:
A Catholic must SUBMIT to the Truth as taught by our Church.Period.Otherwise they should NOT call themselves Catholic as it gives Catholics who live their Faith a bad name and causes scandal.Do you want us to turn into Episcopalians or the United Church and stand for nothing?I doubt that I’ve heard a more ridiculous assertion on this board.Can’t afford to offend anyone’s sensibility vis a vis free-will,MUCH better not to reprimand them and let them trot off to Hell.

If they won’t LIVE their Faith,let them NOT BE Catholics.

Most are CINOS or Cultural Catholics who do not paricipate in the Life of the Church other than to confuse others both Catholic and non-Catholic and bring scandal.
Click to expand...
So I have given you something to write about! LOL. I agree they are not Catholic. I am only saying that the Pope and Bishops give their statements, and everyone has access to the catechism. My point is only that they can’t be policed! We are given free will. So we use it, even people born Catholic. When a person chooses to turn their back on Christ and the church they are no longer Catholic. Obama was taking advantage of that as all politicians do. They are opportunists. It was a brilliant political move and it was devastating to faithful Catholics.

I do think that the protest of over 4,000 people at the grotto at ND is the reaction to Catholics that are not faithful, even Catholic administrators. Obama has calculated all this I am afraid. Of course he is taking advantage of the divide in the Catholic church. This is one time I don’t fault him though- he is just being a politician.
 
stbruno said:
I subscribe to a daily publication and I today’s first reading fits this question perfectly when it comes to Obama and also the problem of secularism and the twisting by our so-called Catholics especially in our universities.
Retreat Master: Fr. Rory Pitstick, SSL

For scripture readings of the day: nccbuscc.org/nab/

2009 May 27 Wed:Easter Weekday/ Augustine of Canterbury, bp, r, ms
Acts 20:28-38/ Ps 67(68):29-30. 33-35a. 35bc-36ab/ Jn 17:11b-19

From today’s readings: “ I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock… Sing to God, O kingdoms of the earth… And I consecrate Myself for them, so that they also may be consecrated in truth.”
**
Truth Twisters**

Paul’s exhortation to the presbyters of Ephesus was for them to “Keep watch over yourselves and over the whole flock of which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers…” (Acts 20:28). Notice that, as is regularly emphasized throughout scripture, moral watchfulness begins with self, before being extended to include guidance of others. And Paul emphasizes commitment to the full truth of the faith, warning against the wolves that will come forward “perverting the truth.”

If we are to commit ourselves to the full truth of our faith, we need, first of all, to know the Truth. Wolves are able to lead disciples astray, not so much because they lie outright, but because they “pervert the truth,” that is, they say something that has elements of truth, but the truth is twisted. This is seen, for instance, among pro-abortion forces who couch their advocacy in language of “pro-choice” and “pro-privacy.” In themselves, “choice” and “privacy” are indeed values to be defended, but never at the cost of another’s life!

Whenever the Church’s teaching is spurned, it is almost always on the basis of a “twisted truth.” Paul’s exhortation reminds us to take the time and effort to pursue the fulness of truth, first for ourselves and the matters of our own lives, and then to aid others in the quest for the untwisted truth.

==================================================
If for any reason you do not receive your daily retreat, please go to
www.ihrc.net to read it.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your thought provoking post. It is well written and timely.
 
Fitz said:
Teaching is one thing, but policing is another. I don’t think public ridicule is what they had in mind.

Obama does not need to divide Catholics. The division exists. He is capitalizing on the division and making is seem to the uneducated that he is reaching out to his opposition. He is doing what all politicians do. However, it is our responsibility as faithful Catholics not to be fooled by these efforts. We still need to see abortion for what it really is.
Click to expand...
I don’t think that the Church has been teaching properly. The Bernardin Catholics never made clear to the laity how radical American abortion law is, or how the “health exception” in Doe vs. Bolton provided all that Sarah Weddington asked for in her brief, which was abortion from conception to birth, and that the abortion right was so absolute that the doctor was given carte blance to execute the will of the woman to execute the child. I guess one can reasonably advocate a seamless garment approach when there is danger of nuclear war, since that is a danger as grave as mass abortion to the integrity of the human race. But Cuomo’s sophistry was widely accepted by the bishops, and I fear still is today.
 
RobbyS said:
I don’t think that the Church has been teaching properly. The Bernardin Catholics never made clear to the laity how radical American abortion law is, or how the “health exception” in Doe vs. Bolton provided all that Sarah Weddington asked for in her brief, which was abortion from conception to birth, and that the abortion right was so absolute that the doctor was given carte blance to execute the will of the woman to execute the child. I guess one can reasonably advocate a seamless garment approach when there is danger of nuclear war, since that is a danger as grave as mass abortion to the integrity of the human race. But Cuomo’s sophistry was widely accepted by the bishops, and I fear still is today.
Click to expand...
It’s not entirely the Bishops’ fault. In 2004, then Cardinal Ratzinger, sent a memo the the head of the US Bishops, declaring procedures for how these Cafeteria Catholic politicians should be dealt with. These procedures were supposed to be distributed to the Bishops, but were not.

I believe I posted this link on another thread, but you might consider reading it. It discusses the memo and what happened to it.
catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=1243
 
Catholic1954 said:
As long as they support him, I don’t think President Obama cares about Catholics or the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
I agree. Obama doesn’t care about the Catholic Church being split. He cares about having loyal civilians.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top