Is Orthodox Christianity seen as a place where the Catholic & Protestant Churches could possibly reunite?

[GaryTaylor]

I disagree, since I think that Buddhists and Jews can be saved.

the truth of its conclusion depends only on the truth of the premises it contains.

Care to elaborate as for example how in your Church?

 

[Peter_J]

I think that Buddhists and Jews can be saved.

Well of course, they’re not Protestants after all!

 

[Peter_J]

(Kidding. )

 

[benjohnson]

(Kidding. )

…

Randy, Jimmy Akins well written explination pre-supposes another predicate: All non-Roman Catholics view themselves as not being Catholic.

Annoyingly for our Catholic friends, Lutherans view themselves as a valid continuation of the western church.

 

[dvdjs]

I suppose you are right about that. At the same time, I would take the highlighted: as being neither more nor less that dvdjs’s opinion.

You are entitled to take things however you want. But the evidence behind my assertion is unambiguous.

 

[dvdjs]

Here is the text in Greek as given on the Web site Symbolum Nicaeno-Constantinopolitanum – Greek from the First Council of Constantinople (381):
Καὶ εἰς ἕνα κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ θεοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ, τὸν ἐκ τοῦ Πατρὸς γεννηθέντα πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων, φῶς ἐκ φωτός, θεὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκ θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ, γεννηθέντα οὐ ποιηθέντα, ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί·
Here is the English translation given in Schaff’s work, Creeds of Christendom
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;
Here is the passage given at the Orthodox website
goarch.org/chapel/liturgical_texts/creed
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of
God, begotten of the Father before all ages;

Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten,
not created, of one essence with the Father
through Whom all things were made.

Randy referred to the original Nicene Creed, not the version unilaterally changed by Eastern bishops that you quoted, and which, two ecumenical councils later, was recognized.

 

[dvdjs]

For those who think that the filioque has been a theological issues that has been seen consistently as church dividing, here is a good read:

doaks.org/resources/publications/doaks-online-publication.

I found this while looking for the answer to the question I posed to prodromos. The book “Byzantine Lists: Errors of the Latins” provides the pertinent information.

Spoiler Alert: the history is very different than that suggested by prodromos.

 

[Jon_Mallory]

Are you really suggesting that the context of of St. Justin’s remark was in response to Pope Boniface?

Your interpretation of the meaning and scope of the Pope’s words is your interpretation. You might notice and attempt to square your interpretation, however, that the fact there is no requirement for any formal submission for EOs to receive the Eucharist in the CC.

So what is the meaning and the scope of the Pope’s words? sounds pretty unambiguous to me.

 

[Randy_Carson]

For those who think that the filioque has been a theological issues that has been seen consistently as church dividing, here is a good read:

doaks.org/resources/publications/doaks-online-publication.

I found this while looking for the answer to the question I posed to prodromos. The book “Byzantine Lists: Errors of the Latins” provides the pertinent information.

Spoiler Alert: the history is very different than that suggested by prodromos.

Check your link.

 

[dvdjs]

So what is the meaning and the scope of the Pope’s words? sounds pretty unambiguous to me.

That has already been discussed by others above.

 

[dvdjs]

Randy: try this; works for me

doaks.org/resources/publications/doaks-online-publications/crusades-from-the-perspective-of-byzantium-and-the-muslim-world/cr09.pdf

 

[Peter_J]

You are entitled to take things however you want.

Thanks. I think some of our non-Catholic brethren think that comments on a Catholic forum are … well, I’m not quite sure what they think, but I’ve read comments like “Such and such is the Catholic position, I read it on CAF.”

But the evidence behind my assertion is unambiguous.

Thanks for letting me know.

 

[boar2roar]

They can ask why are Roman Catholics so scared of having a united church under the Orthodox model?

It wouldn’t work for one. The catholic church would cease to exist and become a fractured group of protestant like national churches contradicting one another all the time. Unity should be something christians strive for not fake unity of don’t tell me what to do that isn’t unity at all. It makes no sense to put so much emphasis on nations . Thats for politics why should that dominate religious organization too. Its pretty telling when a neighborhood I live in has a separate Greek orthodox church, a separate Russian orthodox church even in America. Could you imagine the mess that would make for catholics?

 

[Tomdstone]

It wouldn’t work for one. The catholic church would cease to exist and become a fractured group of protestant like national churches contradicting one another all the time. Unity should be something christians strive for not fake unity of don’t tell me what to do that isn’t unity at all. It makes no sense to put so much emphasis on nations . Thats for politics why should that dominate religious organization too. Its pretty telling when a neighborhood I live in has a separate Greek orthodox church, a separate Russian orthodox church even in America. Could you imagine the mess that would make for catholics?

Not really because in a city I know about, within a few blocks from each other we have an Irish Church, a French Church and an Italian Church, although you are free to go to any one of these. In the French Church the sermons have been in French, whereas in the other two in English. Recently, they have tried to close down the French Church citing poor attendance.
A Greek many attend a Russian Church and vice versa. They don’t check your passports or birth records as you enter an Orthodox Church.

 

[boar2roar]

Not really because in a city I know about, within a few blocks from each other we have an Irish Church, a French Church and an Italian Church, although you are free to go to any one of these. In the French Church the sermons have been in French, whereas in the other two in English. Recently, they have tried to close down the French Church citing poor attendance.
A Greek many attend a Russian Church and vice versa. They don’t check your passports or birth records as you enter an Orthodox Church.

That has more to do with the availability of a priest that can speak a language. They don’t put French catholic church in the billboard on the front.

 

[dvdjs]

Not really because in a city I know about, within a few blocks from each other we have an Irish Church, a French Church and an Italian Church, although you are free to go to any one of these. In the French Church the sermons have been in French, whereas in the other two in English. Recently, they have tried to close down the French Church citing poor attendance.
A Greek many attend a Russian Church and vice versa. They don’t check your passports or birth records as you enter an Orthodox Church.

I am not sure what you think is the Orthodox model or the Catholic model.

If you are talking about North America, then these French, Italian, and Irish churches are under the same hierarch, but the Greek and Russian Orthodox churches are not. And that situation is by no means the Orthodox model, but recognized as uncanonical to say the least. Many Orthodox use far stronger words against this situation.

 

[Tomdstone]

I am not sure what you think is the Orthodox model or the Catholic model.

If you are talking about North America, then these French, Italian, and Irish churches are under the same hierarch, but the Greek and Russian Orthodox churches are not. And that situation is by no means the Orthodox model, but recognized as uncanonical to say the least. Many Orthodox use far stronger words against this situation.

Different Eastern Catholic Churches are under different hierarchs.

 

[dvdjs]

Different Eastern Catholic Churches are under different hierarchs.

I am, of course, well aware of that fact, but am not sure of your point. Are you now suggesting that the CC has the “orthodox” model and the EOC doesn’t?

Over that last 500 years the has been a gradual development of establishing different hierarchs for people of different patrimonies. (French, Irish, and most Italians are of the same ritual patrimony). By VII the idea of recognizing particular churches, sui juris has been reached. This perspective may be reached by the OCs eventually, but at the moment, it is an issue. Not just in the US, but elsewhere.

 

[Tomdstone]

Its pretty telling when a neighborhood I live in has a separate Greek orthodox church, a separate Russian orthodox church even in America. Could you imagine the** mess** that would make for catholics?

Do you think it is a mess for Eastern Catholics who have separate churches for each different Eastern Catholic Church?

 

[dvdjs]

Do you think it is a mess for Eastern Catholics who have separate churches for each different Eastern Catholic Church?

Sometimes it can get messy. Problems can arise when churches act in a way that seems more competitive than collaborative. But in the CC there is a means of working out problems that might seem intractable: there is the prospect of appealing to Rome. I think that this is arguably better than the EO method, which has involved and continues to involve going one’s own way and holding out until others acquiesce. .