Is Orthodox Christianity seen as a place where the Catholic & Protestant Churches could possibly reunite?

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dvdjs said:
It is merely a matter of recognizing, with the CC and the many in the EOC who allow intercommunion, that, by any reasonable standard, we already do.

And I am glad that you stopped with the “budging” issue.
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dvdjs said:
It is merely a matter of recognizing, with the CC and the many in the EOC who allow intercommunion, that, by any reasonable standard, we already do.
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Therein lies the biggest difference. Practically any difference in belief is okay as long as you submit to Rome. Submission to the pope is “the paramount dogma, which means: the paramount value, the paramount measure of all beings and things in the world.”- St Justin Popovich
 
Seraphim73 said:
Therein lies the biggest difference. Practically any difference in belief is okay as long as you submit to Rome. Submission to the pope is “the paramount dogma, which means: the paramount value, the paramount measure of all beings and things in the world.”- St Justin Popovich
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The CC officially welcomes, without reservation, without submission, all EOs, and a few others, but does not offer the Eucharist to many, many others. The quote has no bearing o the present discussion…

It does, however, underscore the fact that making egregiously mistaken claims against the CC is apparently acceptable within the EOC - or is St. Justin considered glorified in spite of this remarks?
 
dvdjs said:
The CC officially welcomes, without reservation, without submission, all EOs, and a few others, but does not offer the Eucharist to many, many others. The quote has no bearing o the present discussion…

It does, however, underscore the fact that making egregiously mistaken claims against the CC is apparently acceptable within the EOC - or is St. Justin considered glorified in spite of this remarks?
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Loaded question much? Of course what he says is true. If you don’t believe it listen to your own pope. 😉

“Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” - Pope Boniface VIII

Now if Pope Boniface misspoke that is fine. But you can’t fault people for taking popes at their word.
 
boar2roar said:
This is a non issue, I’ve attended plenty of masses where catholic priests have beards.
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This is because the Catholic Church has budged on this issue and changed its teaching. If you look at the papal bull left by the papal legate at the Hagia Sophia in 1054, you will read that one of the reasons cited for excommunicating the Eastern Patriarch was that he wore a beard.
 
Seraphim73 said:
Now if Pope Boniface misspoke that is fine. But you can’t fault people for taking popes at their word.
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Are you really suggesting that the context of of St. Justin’s remark was in response to Pope Boniface?

Your interpretation of the meaning and scope of the Pope’s words is your interpretation. You might notice and attempt to square your interpretation, however, that the fact there is no requirement for any formal submission for EOs to receive the Eucharist in the CC.
 
Randy_Carson said:
You want to hold fast to the faith of the Church prior to 1054, correct?

Beyond these, what more actually separates us? 🤷
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What you quoted says through the Son. The Roman Catholics say from the Son, which is not acceptable to Orthodox, although through the Son is acceptable to many Orthodox. So will Catholics change the creed to per Filium? Why has it taken them 1000 years and still they do not change it to per filium?
 
Tomdstone said:
This is because the Catholic Church has budged on this issue and changed its teaching. If you look at the papal bull left by the papal legate at the Hagia Sophia in 1054, you will read that one of the reasons cited for excommunicating the Eastern Patriarch was that he wore a beard.
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Read more carefully.
 
Tomdstone said:
What you quoted says through the Son. The Roman Catholics say from the Son, which is not acceptable to Orthodox, although through the Son is acceptable to many Orthodox. So will Catholics change the creed to per Filium? Why has it taken them 1000 years and still they do not change it to per filium?
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The answer is that that change would be wrong, and the reasons involve both an understanding of Latin and of the correct theology of the filioque. Ghosty has posted on this a number of times, here is one that I found in the search:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8266430&postcount=6.
 
Seraphim73 said:
Randy you’ve proven nothing. 😉
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This is the problem. Each side is unwilling to budge and each side believes it has the truth and the other is in error. Each side presents its case, but the other side finds in unconvincing.
Actually, I think that the Roman Catholic Church has budged slightly on a few issues:
  1. It will no longer excommunicate clergy who wear beards.
  2. It allows the Eastern Catholic Churches to say the creed without the filioque.
    Also, I think that the Eastern Orthodox in some Churches have budged slightly on a few issues:
  3. It goes by the Gregorian calendar, in most Churches, although it is called the revised or reformed Julian calender it is pretty much in synch with the Gregorian calendar.
  4. Women do not wear headcovering in Church, at least in the USA, which is keeping in practice with the current Roman Catholic teaching that women are no longer obligated to wear headcovering.
  5. There are some Orthodox churches which allow pews.
  6. In the western rite Orthodox churches, they allow communion under one species in some cases.
 
Seraphim73 said:
This is true, although not what you seem to imagine. 😉
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Joey-

You have responded several times now with these one-line comments which seem to suggest that you know something we don’t know, but you’re not actually interacting with the material others have presented nor have you offered any evidence as to why it’s in error.

How is this advancing your side of the debate in any way?

Make an compelling argument. Persuade us. Post material that proves Catholicism to be wrong.

You must have some reasons rooted firmly in Sacred Scripture or Patristics for believing as you do.

What are they? 🤷
 
Nektarios_Lady said:
Orthodox Christianity has so much in common with Protestants and with Catholics. Is Orthodoxy seen as a middle ground?

Catholic Churches hold in common with Orthodoxy things like the Holy Eucharist, Liturgical worship and Honor of Mary the Mother of God.

Protestant Churches hold in common with Orthodoxy things like Christ’s resurrection-focused, the sole head of the Church is Christ and daily Bible reading and study.

Could Orthodox Christianity be a unifying factor for the Catholic and Orthodox Churches? Or is it seen as an obstacle?

Considering the rise of the Islamic State and other forces attacking Christianity, it’d be good thing for all the various sects, branches and denominations of Christianity to come together and unite. Not to mention its what Jesus prayed for.
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I seriously doubt it.
 
Tomdstone said:
What you quoted says through the Son. The Roman Catholics say from the Son, which is not acceptable to Orthodox, although through the Son is acceptable to many Orthodox. So will Catholics change the creed to per Filium? Why has it taken them 1000 years and still they do not change it to per filium?
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Tom-

That’s above my paygrade, but I have read that the differences between east and west on the procession of the Holy Spirit were largely the result of misunderstanding and emphasis rather than on actual disagreement.

If I can find an official, joint declaration to that effect, I will post it.

In the meantime, I would be interested in reading an explanation of how “from the Father through the Son” is different from “from the Father and the Son”.

Thanks.
 
Tomdstone said:
They can ask why are Roman Catholics so scared of having a united church under the Orthodox model?
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It’s not a question of being “scared”; it’s a matter of being true to the intent of Jesus as seen in scripture and to the understanding of the Early Church as seen in the writings of the Fathers.

The Church of the first millennium recognized that Peter/Rome was the head of the universal Church.

I have posted multiple quotes from ECF’s on this, and they remain unchallenged and or un-refuted.
 
Randy_Carson said:
It’s not a question of being “scared”; it’s a matter of being true to the intent of Jesus as seen in scripture and to the understanding of the Early Church as seen in the writings of the Fathers.

The Church of the first millennium recognized that Peter/Rome was the head of the universal Church.

I have posted multiple quotes from ECF’s on this, and they remain unchallenged and or un-refuted.
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Each side presents its own view on this and remains unconvinced of the arguments given by the other. Orthodox admit to a primacy of honor for the Roman Pope, similar to the primacy of honor currently held by the Greek Patriarch today, but not the infallibility and universal juridical supremacy.
 
dvdjs said:
Are you really suggesting that the context of of St. Justin’s remark was in response to Pope Boniface?

Your interpretation of the meaning and scope of the Pope’s words is your interpretation. You might notice and attempt to square your interpretation, however, that the fact there is no requirement for any formal submission for EOs to receive the Eucharist in the CC.
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I think that’s more wishful thinking on CC’s part than anything. 🤷
 
Randy_Carson said:
Joey-

You have responded several times now with these one-line comments which seem to suggest that you know something we don’t know, but you’re not actually interacting with the material others have presented nor have you offered any evidence as to why it’s in error.

How is this advancing your side of the debate in any way?

Make an compelling argument. Persuade us. Post material that proves Catholicism to be wrong.

You must have some reasons rooted firmly in Sacred Scripture or Patristics for believing as you do.

What are they? 🤷
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You’ve seen all the arguments but they don’t fit your notions or your needs. There is no point in repeating them again here.
 
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