Is Orthodoxy the true Church?

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Nine_Two said:
That’s not the bible. 😦
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Im not pushing anything here btw…

surely you must be aware of what Catholics believe and how the Catholics refer to Isiah about the keys reference and binding and loosing

and of course to St Peter being the rock of the church in Matthew,and St Peters mission to feed,tend the sheep and strengthen his brothers

and in that you tube video it talks about the Chair of Peter which continues from the chair of Moses

and all that…

of course if you dont refer all this to the Papacy and sucessor of Peter than thats up to you

Peace
God bless
 
Paul_theApostle said:
Im not pushing anything here btw…

surely you must be aware of what Catholics believe and how the Catholics refer to Isiah about the keys reference and binding and loosing

and of course to St Peter being the rock of the church in Matthew,and St Peters mission to feed,tend the sheep and strengthen his brothers

and in that you tube video it talks about the Chair of Peter which continues from the chair of Moses

and all that…

of course if you dont refer all this to the Papacy and sucessor of Peter than thats up to you

Peace
God bless
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I’m very aware of what Catholics believe, however the poster I was quoting said the bible itself made a claim of the Catholic Church over the Orthodox Church. 😉
 
JD27076 said:
Considering the filoque, posted a recent thread, and that the Orthodox Church has 4 Apostolic Patriarchs, and the Catholic Church has only 1, the Roman Pontiff.

I know I shouild not be getting sucked into stuff like this, but I wan’t clarification please.

Is the Orthodox Church the true Church? Is the Catholic Church only 1000 years old?
How isn’t the OC not true? When was it established?
All the important questions…

Thanks
-Justin.

Also, a side question. Was Pope Shenouda III(God rest his soul) a real pope with infallible edicts such as the Roman Pontiff?
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Sometimes I wonder about devisive questions. The Catholic Church is Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic East/West and all Protestants baptized in the trinitarian formula. The Catholic Church was founded by Christ with the Apostles. I will build my Church. Ask Him.🙂
 
reformedman1 said:
Does anybody think that focusing so much on what church body you belong to could detract from your faith in Jesus Christ as your savior?
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Does focusing on your faith in Jesus Christ as your savior cause you to want to be part of the body of Christ, the Church He founded?🙂

Jesus is the way the truth and the light. The Church is the mystery hidden for all ages through which the manifold wisdom of God is known. When you focus on the church body you belong to do you find and believe that what is taught is true, has always been true and consitent with your faith in Jesus Christ as your savior?
 
Nine_Two said:
I’m very aware of what Catholics believe, however the poster I was quoting said the bible itself made a claim of the Catholic Church over the Orthodox Church. 😉
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…he didnt mention anything about other churches or the EO…he just said the bible is clear about the Catholic church being the church…

im guessing hes talking about those references to Peter ,Isiah etc

So any Catholic or most Catholics who believes those Bible references could say the same thing…that their Church and tradition stems from the Bible and New Testament church…
 
CopticChristian said:
Sometimes I wonder about devisive questions. The Catholic Church is Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic East/West and all Protestants baptized in the trinitarian formula. The Catholic Church was founded by Christ with the Apostles. I will build my Church. Ask Him.🙂
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The Catholic Church is comprised of twenty-three self-governing churchs that are all in communion with Bishop of Rome. There is the Latin Church which is by far the largest within the Catholic Church and then there is the Eastern Catholic Churchs which defer in customs and liturgies. Here’s a list I managed to get from another post.

The Eastern Catholic Churches
  1. Alexandrian liturgical tradition
  2. Coptic Catholic Church (patriarchate): Egypt (1741)
  3. Ethiopian Catholic Church (metropolia): Ethiopia, Eritrea (1846)
  4. Antiochian (Antiochene or West-Syrian) liturgical tradition
  5. Maronite Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Cyprus, Jordan, Israel, Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Argentina, Brazil, United States, Australia, Canada, Mexico (union re-affirmed 1182)
  6. Syriac Catholic Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Palestine, Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, United States and Canada, Venezuela (1781)
  7. Syro-Malankara Catholic Church (major archiepiscopate): India, United States (1930)
  8. Armenian liturgical tradition:
  9. Armenian Catholic Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, Jordan, Palestine, Ukraine, France, Greece, Latin America, Argentina, Romania, United States, Canada, Eastern Europe (1742)
  10. Chaldean or East Syrian liturgical tradition:
  11. Chaldean Catholic Church (patriarchate): Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, United States (1692)
  12. Syro-Malabar Church (major archiepiscopate): India, Middle East, Europe and America.
  13. Byzantine (Constantinopolitan) liturgical tradition:
  14. Albanian Greek Catholic Church (apostolic administration): Albania (1628)
  15. Belarusian Greek Catholic Church (no established hierarchy at present): Belarus (1596)
  16. Bulgarian Greek Catholic Church (apostolic exarchate): Bulgaria (1861)
  17. Byzantine Church of the Eparchy of Križevci (an eparchy and an apostolic exarchate): Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro (1611)
  18. Greek Byzantine Catholic Church (two apostolic exarchates): Greece, Turkey (1829)
  19. Hungarian Greek Catholic Church (an eparchy and an apostolic exarchate): Hungary (1646)
  20. Italo-Albanian Catholic Church (two eparchies and a territorial abbacy): Italy (Never separated)
  21. Macedonian Greek Catholic Church (an apostolic exarchate): Republic of Macedonia (1918)
  22. Melkite Greek Catholic Church (patriarchate): Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Jerusalem, Brazil, United States, Canada, Mexico, Iraq, Egypt and Sudan, Kuwait, Australia, Venezuela, Argentina (1726)
  23. Romanian Church United with Rome, Greek-Catholic (major archiepiscopate): Romania, United States (1697)
  24. Russian Catholic Church: (two apostolic exarchates, at present with no published hierarchs): Russia, China (1905); currently about 20 parishes and communities scattered around the world, including five in Russia itself, answering to bishops of other jurisdictions
  25. Ruthenian Catholic Church (a sui juris metropolia, an eparchy, and an apostolic exarchate): United States, Ukraine, Czech Republic (1646)
  26. Slovak Greek Catholic Church (metropolia): Slovak Republic, Canada (1646)
  27. Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (major archiepiscopate): Ukraine, Poland, United States, Canada, Great Britain, Australia, Germany and Scandinavia, France, Brazil, Argentina (1595)
All these with the Latin Church make the worldwide Catholic Church with the Successor of St. Peter in Rome. The Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Protestants are valid Christians and our brothers and sisters in Christ but they are NOT within the Catholic Church.
 
Art321 said:
The Catholic Church is comprised of twenty-three self-governing churchs that are all in communion with Bishop of Rome. There is the Latin Church which is by far the largest within the Catholic Church and then there is the Eastern Catholic Churchs which defer in customs and liturgies. Here’s a list I managed to get from another post.

The Eastern Catholic Churches
  1. Alexandrian liturgical tradition
  2. Coptic Catholic Church (patriarchate): Egypt (1741)
  3. Ethiopian Catholic Church (metropolia): Ethiopia, Eritrea (1846)
  4. Antiochian (Antiochene or West-Syrian) liturgical tradition
  5. Maronite Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Cyprus, Jordan, Israel, Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Argentina, Brazil, United States, Australia, Canada, Mexico (union re-affirmed 1182)
  6. Syriac Catholic Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Palestine, Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Turkey, United States and Canada, Venezuela (1781)
  7. Syro-Malankara Catholic Church (major archiepiscopate): India, United States (1930)
  8. Armenian liturgical tradition:
  9. Armenian Catholic Church (patriarchate): Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, Jordan, Palestine, Ukraine, France, Greece, Latin America, Argentina, Romania, United States, Canada, Eastern Europe (1742)
  10. Chaldean or East Syrian liturgical tradition:
  11. Chaldean Catholic Church (patriarchate): Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, United States (1692)
  12. Syro-Malabar Church (major archiepiscopate): India, Middle East, Europe and America.
  13. Byzantine (Constantinopolitan) liturgical tradition:
  14. Albanian Greek Catholic Church (apostolic administration): Albania (1628)
  15. Belarusian Greek Catholic Church (no established hierarchy at present): Belarus (1596)
  16. Bulgarian Greek Catholic Church (apostolic exarchate): Bulgaria (1861)
  17. Byzantine Church of the Eparchy of Križevci (an eparchy and an apostolic exarchate): Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro (1611)
  18. Greek Byzantine Catholic Church (two apostolic exarchates): Greece, Turkey (1829)
  19. Hungarian Greek Catholic Church (an eparchy and an apostolic exarchate): Hungary (1646)
  20. Italo-Albanian Catholic Church (two eparchies and a territorial abbacy): Italy (Never separated)
  21. Macedonian Greek Catholic Church (an apostolic exarchate): Republic of Macedonia (1918)
  22. Melkite Greek Catholic Church (patriarchate): Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Jerusalem, Brazil, United States, Canada, Mexico, Iraq, Egypt and Sudan, Kuwait, Australia, Venezuela, Argentina (1726)
  23. Romanian Church United with Rome, Greek-Catholic (major archiepiscopate): Romania, United States (1697)
  24. Russian Catholic Church: (two apostolic exarchates, at present with no published hierarchs): Russia, China (1905); currently about 20 parishes and communities scattered around the world, including five in Russia itself, answering to bishops of other jurisdictions
  25. Ruthenian Catholic Church (a sui juris metropolia, an eparchy, and an apostolic exarchate): United States, Ukraine, Czech Republic (1646)
  26. Slovak Greek Catholic Church (metropolia): Slovak Republic, Canada (1646)
  27. Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (major archiepiscopate): Ukraine, Poland, United States, Canada, Great Britain, Australia, Germany and Scandinavia, France, Brazil, Argentina (1595)
All these with the Latin Church make the worldwide Catholic Church with the Successor of St. Peter in Rome. The Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Protestants are valid Christians and our brothers and sisters in Christ but they are NOT within the Catholic Church.
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I am not so sure I agree with you. The Oriental Orthodox & Eastern Orthodox are not outside the Catholic Church. I would agree that Protestants are mysteriously united from our side of the fence.
 
CopticChristian said:
I am not so sure I agree with you. The Oriental Orthodox & Eastern Orthodox are not outside the Catholic Church. I would agree that Protestants are mysteriously united from our side of the fence.
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The Oriental Orthodox and the Eastern Orthodox have the same faith that has been passed on by the Apostles so their churchs are valid. The only thing that is lacking is full communion with the Bishop of Rome and to be completely within the Holy Catholic Church, one must recognize the authority of the Pope. And since the Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox don’t, they are not within the Church. Although they are forever linked to the Catholic Church in a special way that no one else will ever be and for this reason, Rome is pushing towards unity with these local churchs.
 
Paul_theApostle said:
…he didnt mention anything about other churches or the EO…he just said the bible is clear about the Catholic church being the church…

im guessing hes talking about those references to Peter ,Isiah etc

So any Catholic or most Catholics who believes those Bible references could say the same thing…that their Church and tradition stems from the Bible and New Testament church…
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The Catholic Church being the True Church would imply the correctness of the Catholic position over the Orthodox position.
 
Art321 said:
The Oriental Orthodox and the Eastern Orthodox have the same faith that has been passed on by the Apostles so their churchs are valid. The only thing that is lacking is full communion with the Bishop of Rome and to be completely within the Holy Catholic Church, one must recognize the authority of the Pope. And since the Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox don’t, they are not within the Church. Although they are forever linked to the Catholic Church in a special way that no one else will ever be and for this reason, Rome is pushing towards unity with these local churchs.
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The Eastern Orthodox considers itself Catholic and Rome does not disagree as far as I know. You say that recognition of the Pope is all that is lacking. The Eastern Orthodox recognize the Bishop of Rome as the first among equals.

Lets just say that from one side or the other what is does not change. There is OHCAC East and West.🙂
 
CopticChristian said:
The Eastern Orthodox considers itself Catholic and Rome does not disagree as far as I know. You say that recognition of the Pope is all that is lacking. The Eastern Orthodox recognize the Bishop of Rome as the first among equals.

Lets just say that from one side or the other what is does not change. There is OHCAC East and West.🙂
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Actually we recognize that the Bishop of Rome was first among equals. He certainly isn’t now. The possibility is open for after reunion, but I wouldn’t call it a guarantee.
 
Nine_Two said:
Actually we recognize that the Bishop of Rome was first among equals. He certainly isn’t now. The possibility is open for after reunion, but I wouldn’t call it a guarantee.
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I don’t understand. Did Jesus Christ, Son of God, change His mind?

peace
 
CopticChristian said:
The Eastern Orthodox considers itself Catholic and Rome does not disagree as far as I know. You say that recognition of the Pope is all that is lacking. The Eastern Orthodox recognize the Bishop of Rome as the first among equals.

Lets just say that from one side or the other what is does not change. There is OHCAC East and West.🙂
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Rome considers them catholic. In order for them to be Catholic, they must accept the doctrine of the papacy. Trust me, this is a big difference.

I don’t know what OHCAC means at all but I take it that you are referring to the Christ’s Church?🤷

Rome teaches what I said before. That the Catholic Church is made up of 23 self-governing churchs in which they recognize the authority of the Successor of St. Peter and within this Church the sole Church of Christ subsists.
 
Nine_Two said:
Rome held the position due to her orthodoxy. Not because Christ said the Bishop of Rome was to be First Among Equals.
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He is chief of Apostles, and this is Our Lord’s doing from the beginning.

Luke 22:29and I confer a kingdom on you, just as my Father has conferred one on me, 30that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom; and you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 31* “Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you* like wheat, 32but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers.”

peace
 
hazcompat said:
He is chief of Apostles, and this is Our Lord’s doing from the beginning.

Luke 22:29and I confer a kingdom on you, just as my Father has conferred one on me, 30that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom; and you will sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 31* “Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you* like wheat, 32but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers.”

peace
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Sorry, I couldn’t find the bit that said “Bishop of Rome” in there.
 
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