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Robert_Sock
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How else to to solve the problems facing capitalistic society? I’m really optimistic here. The biggest problem is getting corporatism to maintain the values of love and harmony instead of power and greed.
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
good luck!
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Swiss_Guy
Guest
It’s possible if society gets more Christian, but with an increasingly secular society capitalism will become increasingly worse. Free markets are good, but an atheistic world has no set of morals, making them bad.
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The_GreyPilgrim
Guest
I don’t agree with the term “corporatism”.
What I see in our current situation is an unhealthly collusion between certain corporations and the state which I would instead call “state-capitalism”. Its not corporations in control of the state but the state picking winners and losers between corporations who supported their respected party and punishing those who didn’t.
What I see in our current situation is an unhealthly collusion between certain corporations and the state which I would instead call “state-capitalism”. Its not corporations in control of the state but the state picking winners and losers between corporations who supported their respected party and punishing those who didn’t.
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Kathryn_Ann
Guest
I agree,
and it ('an unhealthy collusion :frighten:between certain corporations and the
state")**is already here:bighanky: and has been for quite some time. **
(I know: I’m from the :grouphug:sixties!):flowers:
:harp:
:flowers:Kathryn Ann:heaven:
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The_GreyPilgrim
Guest
That is why Washington needs to be smaller, not bigger. They should get less of our money, not more. Because a Federal government who is smaller and has no money-and therefore has no power-is less attractive to companies who want to use the government as a means to better their ends.I agree,
and it ('an unhealthy collusion :frighten:between certain corporations and the
**is already here:bighanky: and has been for quite some time. **
(I know: I’m from the :grouphug:sixties!):flowers:
:harp:
:flowers:Kathryn Ann:heaven:
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JonathonofOhio
Guest
I agree with your assessment of the situation among the states, but I agree with the term corporatism because the Federal Reserve is controlled by corporations. Since corporations basically control our money supply, any decisions the government makes are in the interest of those corporations and not the peoples. This has a trickle down effect to the states, which you point out: the corporations who supported the respected party are rewarded and those who don’t are punished (lawsuits, fines, more taxes, etc).
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
Yes, it’s basically called bribery. The company I work for gives all kinds of political “donations”. And then of course, lobbyists. Money talks.
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tgrath
Guest
Markets for goods and services and markets for labor are global. Therefore, it is not likely that a uniform moral standard will prevail. The marketplace is too diverse and varied.
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Mickey_Finn
Guest
Actually, this would most likely make politicians more suseptible to the influence of “donations”. What we’ve seen, is an increase pressure from the corporate world. To move public held institutions,into the hands of private corporations. They reason, that a weakend government will be less able to oppose their will. We see examples of this all of the time. EU countries are currently weathering a veritable blitzkrig of pressure to privatize. We wouldn’t want to forget, that corporate greed has brought hard times to these countries, and their people.
Oil producers, are putting pressure on congress to neuter the EPA. Time and again, they have attempted to portray themselves as victims of government regulation. When in fact, they are the recipients of a great amount of public largesse. In the form of large tax breaks. Tax breaks they certainly don’t require, in these times of record profits. They just want to be able to drill without fear of consequences from their impact on the enviroment.
These are just a couple of examples, to highlight the mistake in your reasoning.
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
Amen. Think BP if you want to see a good example of corporations getting away with everything. Have you seen their recent ads saying how clean the Gulf is? Even though everyone says the seafood tastes funny and there are all kinds of mutations there. It makes me sick.
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tarboy
Guest
Mickey, I think you gravely misrepresent the issues in Europe. Greece along with several other countries are in crisis because of their Govt pandering to the people and overspending. Privatization is one response to the crisis and NOT THE CAUSE!
Deriding tax breaks is a non-sequitur to your points on regulation.
Some level of Govt regulation is essential to our well being and survival, but these agencies also have shown a habit of going too far. Balance is required.
Deriding tax breaks is a non-sequitur to your points on regulation.
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Mickey_Finn
Guest
No tarboy. I think Greeces problems, stem from the global meltdown, and a national past time of tax evasion.
If you look to see who is actually pushing for privitization, and austerity in general. You’ll see what I, or we, are getting at.As for the tax breaks to oil companies. I was deriding their greed.
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tarboy
Guest
expensive social programs without supporting tax income is the govt pandering to the people. In contrast, Norway can do it because they actually have the tax income to pay for it. For Greece, the global meltdown was the final nail in the coffin, but not the cause. And why shouldn’t businesses be pushing Greece for austerity, there is no other choice but to strt balancing their budget.No tarboy. I think Greeces problems, stem from the global meltdown, and a national past time of tax evasion.
As for the tax breaks to oil companies. I was deriding their greed.
ATB
The oil companies are meant to be for profit, so I don’t see your issue with that.
I do agree that the tax breaks may no longer be requried though
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Mickey_Finn
Guest
My point with the oil companies is as I stated.They want to conduct their business free of liability for their actions.
ATB
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
Not just oil companies - financial institutions, car manufacturers, etc. How many have we bailed out in the last 10 years? Not to mention all the tax breaks they get.
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Mickey_Finn
Guest
CHRISTINE, I think the bailouts were as much for our benefit, as the institutions that recieved them. But, the financial institutions (Banking-investing) would be a lot more stable. If, we brought back Glass-Steagall. Then the investors could face the “meltdowns”, on their own. Without the risk of dragging the entire economy into the abyss.
ATB
p.s. To put it another way. The Gramm, Leach, Bliley act (Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999,) By, repealling Glass-Steagall, allowed the banks to combine and essentially tie our savings in with high risk investing. So, when they went bust. The risk of a run on the banks had to be addressed. Money was the solution they came up with. No surprise there.
Auto Bailouts helped countless families in my area hold onto their homes. So, this also helped the banking institutions. Not to mention the communities where the workers lived.
Cash for clunkers helped out Hyundai, and the scrap metal industry.
To some it all up. In the absence of an ounce of prevention, Glass-Steagall. WE used a TON of cure.
ATB
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white_sheep
Guest
I think the use of both terms was misleading. The U.S. isn’t really capitalist, we’re an amalgam. We have elements of corporate capitalism, state monopoly capitalism, and others
The problem here is that most of us are probably unqualified to discuss these terms.
Our “capitalist” economy has been very controlled by the government for a long time. More than half of Americans work for one of 177 corporations. Small businesses, as so often touted by politicians, are really a very minor part of the country. The number of self employed is likewise fairly small. There are statistically few participants in the ownership of capital. Our government has made numerous regulations to favor the big business over the small and keep new businesses from competing or forming.
The problem here is that most of us are probably unqualified to discuss these terms.
Our “capitalist” economy has been very controlled by the government for a long time. More than half of Americans work for one of 177 corporations. Small businesses, as so often touted by politicians, are really a very minor part of the country. The number of self employed is likewise fairly small. There are statistically few participants in the ownership of capital. Our government has made numerous regulations to favor the big business over the small and keep new businesses from competing or forming.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
Big corporations are the efficient ones. Take a close look around you and see the immense workmanship done through corporations. Small business cannot compete, nor should they.
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Mickey_Finn
Guest
Your joking? As White Sheep points out so eloquently. Major, or Big corporations, as you label them. Seem to have an unfair advantage over start ups and smaller businesses.They can buy the table so to speak. How could you seriously expect small, or startup businesses to be able to compete?
The only worse offender that I can think of. Are the financial institutions. They keep a steady revolving door of employees. First at their offices. Then the offices of the SEC, and Justice department. So no matter the crime, prosecution is unlikely.
ATB
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