Is philosophy dead?

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But reasoning has to start somewhere, and people start from different places in subjects like morality. A woman in sub-Saharan Africa would probably reach different moral conclusions from a man in Manhattan, even though both may reason flawlessly. Your great-grandchild will probably reach different moral conclusions to you, even though you both reason flawlessly.
Not true in other subjects, such as math for example. Regardless of where you start out and regardless of how you approach the problem, you will always come up with the same correct answer, such as for example, that the base angles of an isosceles triangle (in Euclidean geometry) are equal. What you are describing indicates a subject where the solution to the moral problem is relative and subjective.
 
If that is what you call “tripe” then I would guess that your knowledge of history is either insufficient or viewed through the eyes of a blame-America-first liberal.

Yppop
This is probably the first time in my life anybody has ever called me a liberal. 😃

Apparently you never read the source I cited. You are not giving me the source of your scholarship, but I’ll give it you mine again.

ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html

Read to the bottom and get the best authorities possible on why the bombs were not necessary.

The outrageous figures suggested earlier, that millions of lives could have been saved by dropping the bombs, is easily refuted.

This will be my last word on the subject as it seems you are not interested in the best authorities and only in justifying war crimes committed that even a moral authority as keen as Pope Pius XII recognized as such at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And I don’t think Pius XII was a flaming blame-America-first liberal either.

And by the way, Einstein and Oppenheimer ultimately agreed.

So who is the authority for the absurd figure of “millions” of lives saved?

Truman’s flunkies in the White House who had to scramble for justification?
 
But reasoning has to start somewhere, and people start from different places in subjects like morality. A woman in sub-Saharan Africa would probably reach different moral conclusions from a man in Manhattan, even though both may reason flawlessly. Your great-grandchild will probably reach different moral conclusions to you, even though you both reason flawlessly.
This is a bit of silly-putty logic, isn’t it, designed to promote moral relativism?

The woman in sub-Sahara Africa and my great grandchild, if they are both reasoning correctly, should be able to agree with me that both murder and stealing are morally wrong.
 
This is a bit of silly-putty logic, isn’t it, designed to promote moral relativism?

The woman in sub-Sahara Africa and my great grandchild, if they are both reasoning correctly, should be able to agree with me that both murder and stealing are morally wrong.
True, but it is all too easy to “philosophize” that stealing isn’t really stealing (if done by the poor, ie liberation theology), or that murder isn’t really murder (abortion, euthanasia, or just “he needed killing”).

To the extent that philosophy is subjective, it should be laid to rest, IMNAAHO.

ICXC NIKA.
 
This is probably the first time in my life anybody has ever called me a liberal. 😃

Apparently you never read the source I cited. You are not giving me the source of your scholarship, but I’ll give it you mine again.

ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html

Read to the bottom and get the best authorities possible on why the bombs were not necessary.

The outrageous figures suggested earlier, that millions of lives could have been saved by dropping the bombs, is easily refuted.

This will be my last word on the subject as it seems you are not interested in the best
authorities and only in justifying war crimes committed that even a moral authority as keen as Pope Pius XII recognized as such at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And I don’t think Pius XII was a flaming blame-America-first liberal either.

And by the way, Einstein and Oppenheimer ultimately agreed.

So who is the authority for the absurd figure of “millions” of lives saved?

Truman’s flunkies in the White House who had to scramble for justification?
Charlie:
The source you linked me to is an essay published by the “Institute of Historical Review”, a site dedicated to the denial of the Holocaust. The source was written by Mark Weber, the director of the institute, the most prominent denier of them all. Surely there are better and saner sources you could have selected.

For your information, the Truman “flunkies” that recommended (1) dropping the bomb, (2) on civilian neighborhoods, (3) without warning included respected scientists: James Bryant, president of Harvard; Karl Compton, president of M.I.T.; Vanvevar Bush, president of the Carnegie Institute in Washington. The advisory panel that agreed with the recommendation consisted of Enrico Fermi, Arthur Compton, and J. Robert Oppenheimer.

It should be pointed out that the third recommendation of the panel of “flunkies” (no warning) was ignored and ample flyers urging civilians to evacuate were dropped.

Charle, we generally are on the same side of the the discussion so I don’t care to begin a a tong war with you. So adios my friend.
Yppop
 
Charlie:
The source you linked me to is an essay published by the “Institute of Historical Review”, a site dedicated to the denial of the Holocaust. The source was written by Mark Weber, the director of the institute, the most prominent denier of them all. Surely there are better and saner sources you could have selected.
Yppop
Sorry to see you are gone. For others, this source by Catholic apologist Dave Armstrong may be much more to their liking. It focuses on the views of several Popes and the Vatican Council concerning the use of nuclear weapons on large cities.

socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/01/popes-pius-xii-paul-vi-john-paul-ii.html
 
The argument is that Hiroshima was a military target. Hiroshima produced munitions for the Imperial Army. It also had two Army Group Headquarters. Civilians were warned ahead of time by pamphlets dropped by the US to leave the city ASAP.
If Japan had invented the first atomic bomb, it would have been morally permissible to drop it over any major American city making airplanes or tanks as long as they dropped leaflets warning the citizens to flee the city?

Do unto others before they do it unto you. Is that the new just war theory?
 
If Japan had invented the first atomic bomb, it would have been morally permissible to drop it over any major American city making airplanes or tanks as long as they dropped leaflets warning the citizens to flee the city?
No, because the Germans and the Japanese were committing atrocities and therefore their waging war was unjust. The war was just for the Americans, but unjust for the Germans and Japanese. In a just war, military targets are fair game.
 
Not true in other subjects, such as math for example. Regardless of where you start out and regardless of how you approach the problem, you will always come up with the same correct answer, such as for example, that the base angles of an isosceles triangle (in Euclidean geometry) are equal. What you are describing indicates a subject where the solution to the moral problem is relative and subjective.
In math we choose the axioms. All reasonable people used to think Euclid’s axioms were true for all spaces, but the world proved them wrong.

In morality you can also choose the axioms, but reasonable people have never agreed on what they should be, so they never fell into that trap.

The world is what it is. I think it’s unfair to blame philosophers for that.
 
This is a bit of silly-putty logic, isn’t it, designed to promote moral relativism?

The woman in sub-Sahara Africa and my great grandchild, if they are both reasoning correctly, should be able to agree with me that both murder and stealing are morally wrong.
The guy in Manhattan steals her oil and calls it capitalism, and with the proceeds he buys drones to bomb men she calls freedom fighters, and when one kills her kids he calls it collateral damage rather than murder.

I don’t necessarily agree with either of them, but if you call every view except your own “a bit of silly-putty logic” then yes, of course philosophy is dead, you just killed it.

Caught you red-handed dude. Officer, read him his rights. 😃
 
In morality you can also choose the axioms, but reasonable people have never agreed on what they should be, so they never fell into that trap.
What reasonable people have ever disagreed that we should do unto others as we would have them do unto us? :confused:

Did Jesus set a trap? 🤷
 
I don’t necessarily agree with either of them, but if you call every view except your own “a bit of silly-putty logic” then yes, of course philosophy is dead, you just killed it.
Some views not my own are not silly-putty logic, but the notion that I killed logic surely is. 😃
 
Do you doubt that various Presidents of the USA, such as Truman, Clinton, Bush jr., Obama were reasonable?
Some of the time reasonable, some of the time not so reasonable.

Try asking more challenging questions?
 
One of the reasons that might lead some people to think philosophy is dead is that they don’t take an interest in it. There has probably never in the history of the world been such an era as ours for finding distractions from the business of thinking about the ultimate issues of life. When long ago people did not have such a plethora of television or football or ipads or junk literature or pornography competing for their attention, it was possible for you to strike up a conversation at a bar about any topic philosophical without somebody quizzically looking at you and cautiously walking away to find someone less oddball.

But the same could be said for anybody at a bar trying to strike up a little exchange on the Big Bang theory. People will move ever so cautiously away from you, as if you might be carrying the intellectual’s disease. So why isn’t science also “dead”?
 
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