Is Pope Francis reaching out to the prodigals and are some of us feeling like the older brother?

[Starrsmother]

Thank you!

And even more recently, someone posted a link to an article in support of Pope Francis that referred to Pope Benedict as the Liberace Pope. How is that NOT painting Pope Benedict in a negative light?

And that was my point! Let’s face it folks–we all have opinions of different popes and how effective they are or were–but as Catholics, we balance all that against the fact that whomever is Pope, occupies the throne of Peter and deserves our respect and support… Thus, while even many Catholics may well find Francis easier to relate to— it doesn’t mean that Benedict wasn’t just as good a pope! He was a different man than Francis with a different personality and life experiences is all. I had this exact discussion with a family member of mine right after Benedict resigned. He said “Well, it’s about time! Why don’t they have mandatory retirement ages for popes anyway instead of having some old 98 year old dude with alzheimers as pope forever until he kicks the bucket? They have mandatory retirement for everything else!”. Obviously a huge brue-hau immediately resulted with my furiously attempting to explain to him that becoming pope is not the same as becoming CEO of a fortune 500 company! Believe me–the secular press and the world in general have absolutely NO issue in discussing and deciding on how effective, how personable, how “good” (whatever that means) that they think any Pope is or was. If we as Catholics can’t even be allowed to acknowledge that the discussion exists–much less as I did in my post, point out any positive assets of individual popes or world problems faced by both the most recent popes–then the church really IS in trouble— from within!

 

[gracepoole]

I found two portions of this piece interesting:

Frank Sheed put it well:

Our faith is rooted in Christ, not in the human instruments he uses. In a given age, a Catholic might revere the reigning pope and rejoice in his policies, and this would be an extra stimulation. On the other hand, he might find the pope’s life disedifying or his policies unpleasing: and that would be depressing. But whether the pope’s personality and policy stimulate him or depress him, the substance of our Catholicity is something distinct from them: what primarily matters is what we find in the Church of which the pope is the earthly ruler—the grace of the sacraments, the offering of the Sacrifice, the certitude of the truth, the unity of the Fellowship, and Christ, in whom all these are. (Theology and Sanity, p. 309-310)

and

Therefore, when we love the Pope, there are no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed; when we love the Pope, we do not say that he has not spoken clearly enough, almost as if he were forced to repeat to the ear of each one the will clearly expressed so many times not only in person, but with letters and other public documents; we do not place his orders in doubt, adding the facile pretext of those unwilling to obey – that it is not the Pope who commands, but those who surround him; we do not limit the field in which he might and must exercise his authority; one does not oppose to the Pope’s authority that of others, however learned they may be, who differ from him. For however great their learning, they must be lacking in holiness, for there can be no holiness in dissension from the Pope. (Pope St. Pius X, allocution of 18 November 1912, AAS vol. 4 (1912), 695).

bellarmineforum.org/2013/08/02/no-holiness-in-dissension-from-the-pope/

 

[severus68]

What personal remarks? If you don’t agree-that’s okay. But I certainly made no personal remarks–and you know it!

How about this?

“he key to my entire comment–which apparently some apparent light weights completely missed–”

We are “light weights” whn we don’t agree with you apparently.

Just one point I would like to make on that post of yours. American Catholics - 60 million? plus Canadian Catholics - do not make up the majority of Catholics. No disrespect to Americans and Canadians but the Church does not only cater to you. Sin is sin. Maybe different kinds of the more ‘popular’ sins in North America with all that affluence and waste but plenty of the poor and marginalised…

 

[severus68]

I found two portions of this piece interesting:

and

bellarmineforum.org/2013/08/02/no-holiness-in-dissension-from-the-pope/

Very apt, thank you.

 

[Randy_Carson]

This is a man who was Arch-Bishop of Buenos Aires, Provincial Superior of the Jesuits in Argentina, Ordinariate for Eastern Catholics in Argentina. He was a Cardinal who held positions in the 5 different bodies of the Roman Curia, including the CDW and was runner-up to when Pope Benedict XVI was elected Pope.

He is not some little back-woods parish priest who suddenly woke up and found out himself elected as Pope.

Argentina has a total population of 41 million - only slightly larger than California.
Buenos Aires has a population of 2.9 million. Not even in the top 50 worldwide.
Argentina is located at the southernmost tip of South America…not exactly the crossroads of the world.

Francis will do fine, but he’s not in Kansas anymore.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Brendan,

I think you have a short memory. Take a look at some of the threads posted right after the conclave. Several times, Pope Francis was called “a breath of fresh air” as if Pope Benedict was a stuffy old-fashioned pope. Or the comments of “finally! A Pope who ‘gets it’.” as if Pope Benedict was living under a rock and had no idea what was going on in the Church. And how many CAF posters lauded Pope Francis for “turning” the Church’s attention to the poor? If the Church needed “turning” doesn’t that mean she wasn’t attending to the poor under Pope Benedict’s watch? Which, of course is nonsense.

Hear, hear.

:clapping:

 

[Starrsmother]

I found two portions of this piece interesting:

and

bellarmineforum.org/2013/08/02/no-holiness-in-dissension-from-the-pope/

Just off the top of my head, I’d agree 100% with the first excerpt.

The second excerpt sounds like a crock to me. You can disagree with someone without disrespecting them or their office. You can discuss and point out problems in the world to someone without condemning their actions You can submit to the authority of someone–such as the pope–without edifying him and even as you are aware of and even point out the first two things I mention in this paragraph. That second excerpt makes me wonder how the writer visualizes the papacy and the Vatican. Perhaps they think the Pope lives in a vaccuum–or bubble–and only communicates with God alone and only on days that it thunders in Rome. Myself, I suspect every pope runs things by a lot of the folks surrounding him–advisers he knows and trusts, if you will, but who, as with all men, may sometimes give the pope great advice and other times the advice may be a little flawed–but then, I think the Pope prays and probably prays some more, considers and reconsiders, and then makes a final decision alone with the help of the Holy Spirit–knowing full well that he will one day answer to God for what he has done or not done. It has to be the worst–hardest-- job out there I’d think. Even just being a papal adviser would be bad enough in my opinion!

I respect the papacy and submit myself willingly to the decisions of whomever is Pope. It’s a decision I made totally and completely when I returned to the church after my absence of several decades. But, I tell you what, if the Pope must be held in such a lofty position that nobody could even remark if he walked into the basilica at St. Peter’s and had half a roll of toilet paper hanging out the back of his robe–then we are edifying a MAN–not God–and we really need to think a bit!!!

 

[Elizabeth502]

People in general who saw Pope Benedict as “old and stuffy” (as someone above pointed out) didn’t see the part of him that was incredibly intelligent, maybe a little shy, and definitely introverted. I used to watch his eyes as they’d help him up to the microphone when he spoke to the crowds–or as he blessed crowds from the pope-mobile. What I saw was an old man with a lot of pain and worry and responsibility—a holy man, who probably prayed more in one day than most of us will in our entire life! But, that’s what I saw–not what everyone saw–or what the press (especially in America) saw…after all,it’s not about Benedict or Francis alone, or what’s PC, or like-ability–it’s about GOD and saving souls.

Lovely. Thank you. It’s what I saw about BXVI, too. I used to watch his eyes during those Papal Masses, carefully. They seemed filled with concern and compassion.

 

[graciew]

Argentina has a total population of 41 million - only slightly larger than California.
Buenos Aires has a population of 2.9 million. Not even in the top 50 worldwide.
Argentina is located at the southernmost tip of South America…not exactly the crossroads of the world.

Francis will do fine, but he’s not in Kansas anymore.

…neither the crossroads of the world nor out of this world nor the center of the universe…
No, Francis is not in Kansas anymore and he is not geographically challenged…

 

[Starrsmother]

…neither the crossroads of the world nor out of this world nor the center of the universe…
No, Francis is not in Kansas anymore and he is not geographically challenged…

AMEN Randy! And LOL!

 

[Veridical16]

Aren’t we Catholics supposed to believe that a Pope is chosen after much prayer and supplication for guidance to the Holy Spirit…if some people want to pick bones over Pope Benedict v Pope Francis then maybe they need to take it up with the Holy Spirit.

Holy Spirit doesn’t necessarily pick the Pope, as Pope Benedict said, he just makes sure we don’t mess it up completely.

 

[severus68]

Lovely. Thank you. It’s what I saw about BXVI, too. I used to watch his eyes during those Papal Masses, carefully. They seemed filled with concern and compassion.

Yes, Benedict is a kind and caring person. I say that and I have not seen a post which says otherwise.

 

[severus68]

Argentina has a total population of 41 million - only slightly larger than California.
Buenos Aires has a population of 2.9 million. Not even in the top 50 worldwide.
Argentina is located at the southernmost tip of South America…not exactly the crossroads of the world.

Francis will do fine, but he’s not in Kansas anymore.

What has this to do with anything? Top for what? We are talking about our Pope. Must he be from the US or another European country so not to be called “a little Jesuit”?

 

[Elizabeth502]

Yes, Benedict is a kind and caring person. I say that and I have not seen a post which says otherwise.

Take a look at some of the threads posted right after the conclave. Several times, Pope Francis was called “a breath of fresh air” as if Pope Benedict was a stuffy old-fashioned pope. Or the comments of “finally! A Pope who ‘gets it’.” as if Pope Benedict was living under a rock and had no idea what was going on in the Church. And how many CAF posters lauded Pope Francis for “turning” the Church’s attention to the poor? If the Church needed “turning” doesn’t that mean she wasn’t attending to the poor under Pope Benedict’s watch? Which, of course is nonsense.

 

[severus68]

Elizabeth502:
Saying something good about our current Pope does not equate to a put-down of our former Pope. If that is so, then any praise of Benedict when he was Pope equated to a put down of JPII and so on.

 

[Starrsmother]

Saying something good about our current Pope does not equate to a put-down of our former Pope. If that is so, then any praise of Benedict when he was Pope equated to a put down of JPII and so on.

Severus68–you say it well and I agree! The issue is not that I complain–or you complain–about either pope though. I admit I was initially a little surprised at Francis’ personality–not that he was elected, as other than Cardinal Dolan, I really am not even too fluent on who the Cardinals are. And I kept hearing on TV that Dolan wasn’t one of the more likely pix–not that he couldn’t have been if that’s how the Holy Spirit chose to lead the conclave. But anyway, I didn’t have any expectations as to who would be pope–cause I didn’t really know any of them. Then I remember when Francis first came out on the balcony and asked everyone to pray for Him. And next the press came down on him and every day in the news, the media hype began and increased–because he is so extremely affable, humble, apparently easy to approach etc–a genuinely nice guy,if you will. And he made statements, answered questions off the cuff and gave and continues to give interviews and all that is excellent in my opinion too. I actually am standing up for Benedict–because many sources DO make comparisons between Benedict and Francis—and Benedict never is cast very favorably. I think that is unfair–Benedict is NOT Francis in personality or any other way–and that’s not a bad thing. But,every time I pick up a secular news source, they are touting Francis and all the changes they think he will make–and you and I know he isn’t, for instance, going to okay gay marriage because it’s a sin and against church law. But a lot of people–including the younger generation DON’T know that. Plus, the church in America is a sort of a special messed up case today–it needs a good strong shepherd to lead all back to Jesus and hopefully the Catholic church. And I hope Francis will be the one to do it! I just think that he needs to be treated fairly–not made into some mythical super-pope in the press and given a chance to learn and to come into his own. PLUS, I get tired of the secular Benedict-bashing! LOL!

 

[gracepoole]

Just off the top of my head, I’d agree 100% with the first excerpt.

The second excerpt sounds like a crock to me.

That second excerpt makes me wonder how the writer visualizes the papacy and the Vatican. Perhaps they think the Pope lives in a vaccuum–or bubble–and only communicates with God alone and only on days that it thunders in Rome.

“The writer”? You did catch that the second except was written by Pope Pius X…right?

 

[Starrsmother]

“The writer”? You did catch that the second except was written by Pope Pius X…right?

Actually, no I didn’t catch that it was written by Pius X! OOPS–my bad and I apologize sincerely–no disrespect intended I assure you.

I still disagree with him–but I’d have certainly stated it differently if I’d noted the author! Mea culpa!

 

[Sirach2]

I am abashed that a few of our members have the audacity to trample on holy ground and ravage our Pope(s) as though he were a tabloid favorite. Where is the sense of decency, not to mention being against forum rules?

Thanks to all of you who made the attempt to defend this.

 

[Randy_Carson]

What has this to do with anything?

Brendan was citing the pope’s credentials as a top prelate in Argentina. I simply pointed out that Argentina is not a large or strategically important country in world affairs.

Top for what?

Population. Buenos Aires, like Argentina, is not very large. Francis’ experience is in small countries and cities. He is on a larger stage now, and that will take some adjustment.

We are talking about our Pope.

Yes.

Must he be from the US or another European country so not to be called “a little Jesuit”?

I did not use that phrase.