Is Pope Francis reaching out to the prodigals and are some of us feeling like the older brother?

[Starrsmother]

Brendan was citing the pope’s credentials as a top prelate in Argentina. I simply pointed out that Argentina is not a large or strategically important country in world affairs.

Population. Buenos Aires, like Argentina, is not very large. Francis’ experience is in small countries and cities. He is on a larger stage now, and that will take some adjustment.

Yes.

I did not use that phrase.

I’m the one who described him as a little jesuit–but certainly it was not meant in any insulting way. He is a jesuit of course and in my mind his very humility, self effacing ways and marked humility make me think that it is a very apt, descriptive and complimentary term–sort of in the same vein as Saint Therese–the LITTLE flower. Again–no offense was meant and I don’t feel any should be taken. .

 

[OurLadyPray4US]

I’m the one who described him as a little jesuit–but certainly it was not meant in any insulting way. He is a jesuit of course and in my mind his very humility, self effacing ways and marked humility make me think that it is a very apt, descriptive and complimentary term–sort of in the same vein as Saint Therese–the LITTLE flower. Again–no offense was meant and I don’t feel any should be taken. .

It’s interesting to note that St. Francis of Assisi was affectionately known as the “Poverello”, or “Little Poor Man” to the people of his age. It was not meant as an insult, more like an affectionate nickname, a term of endearment. And our Pope is on record for having chosen the name Francis, in honor of Saint Francis of Assisi.

So yeah, I can see how one could call him a “little” man, and mean no disrespect by that.

Back to St. Francis of Assisi, I remember how much I laughed when I read his biography. He is a great saint, but he was truly humble and self effacing to the point where some of the real events of his life sound unreal. When he went to the Pope to ask him to approve him to start a religious order, the Pope saw that this little man showed up with shabby and dirty clothes (well he just traveled hundreds of miles on foot to see the Pope), with his bushy eyebrows, and the Pope exclaimed, “why don’t you go to the pigsty”. To which, believe it or not, St. Francis went to the nearest pigsty, rolled in the manure, and came back to see the Pope. He took no offense, he really welcomed opportunities to humiliate himself. The Pope, in turn, was really impressed with the humility and obedience of the Poor Little Man (this was a time of upheaval in the Church, with the Cathari and Albigensian heresies, and the heretics were the antithesis of humility and obedience), and thus the Pope gave his approval for St. Francis starting his religious order. All things work out for the benefit of those who trust the Lord.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I’m the one who described him as a little jesuit–but certainly it was not meant in any insulting way. He is a jesuit of course and in my mind his very humility, self effacing ways and marked humility make me think that it is a very apt, descriptive and complimentary term–sort of in the same vein as Saint Therese–the LITTLE flower. Again–no offense was meant and I don’t feel any should be taken. .

I’m glad to hear this explanation…I DID sort of cringe when I read your original post, so I can understand how some might have read it the wrong way.

Cold print on a screen is not the same as conversation with someone in person.

 

[Starrsmother]

It’s interesting to note that St. Francis of Assisi was affectionately known as the “Poverello”, or “Little Poor Man” to the people of his age. It was not meant as an insult, more like an affectionate nickname, a term of endearment. And our Pope is on record for having chosen the name Francis, in honor of Saint Francis of Assisi.

So yeah, I can see how one could call him a “little” man, and mean no disrespect by that.

Back to St. Francis of Assisi, I remember how much I laughed when I read his biography. He is a great saint, but he was truly humble and self effacing to the point where some of the real events of his life sound unreal. When he went to the Pope to ask him to approve him to start a religious order, the Pope saw that this little man showed up with shabby and dirty clothes (well he just traveled hundreds of miles on foot to see the Pope), with his bushy eyebrows, and the Pope exclaimed, “why don’t you go to the pigsty”. To which, believe it or not, St. Francis went to the nearest pigsty, rolled in the manure, and came back to see the Pope. He took no offense, he really welcomed opportunities to humiliate himself. The Pope, in turn, was really impressed with the humility and obedience of the Poor Little Man (this was a time of upheaval in the Church, with the Cathari and Albigensian heresies, and the heretics were the antithesis of humility and obedience), and thus the Pope gave his approval for St. Francis starting his religious order. All things work out for the benefit of those who trust the Lord.

What a great story of St. Francis and no, I hadn’t heard that one before. I’ve read several books on his life–he’s my sister’s patron saint per her chosen Confirmation name and so I’ve always had a special fondness for him. He really did write the book on humility didn’t he? Anyway, St. Francis’ prayer ("Make me an instrument of thy peace…)is another thing that I’ve always loved deeply. When they announced that the new pope had chosen him for his papal name I was truly thrilled and a little awed–so no, I meant no disrespect–only that Pope Frances, to me, IS a little Jesuit priest–a humble, older man, a kindly gentleman, from a small, poor, Latin American country who has had one of the biggest jobs in the whole world thrust on him at one of the most difficult times for the Catholic faith in the history of the world. For me, I pray for that little Jesuit every day!

 

[graciew]

Brendan was citing the pope’s credentials as a top prelate in Argentina. I simply pointed out that Argentina is not a large or strategically important country in world affairs.

Population. Buenos Aires, like Argentina, is not very large. Francis’ experience is in small countries and cities. He is on a larger stage now, and that will take some adjustment.

.

Randy,your post did make me cringe.
Being born and raised in Buenos Aires, I am kind of tired of being given our own coordinates.
But,to be absolutely honest, I should be doing some housework ,so in that sense,it is me who is geographically challenged right now.
So,yes,my posting was out of anger. Sorry. You do not have to say anything even wise for me to respect you.
God bless you and have a nice day.

 

[Brendan_64]

Argentina has a total population of 41 million - only slightly larger than California.
Buenos Aires has a population of 2.9 million. Not even in the top 50 worldwide.
Argentina is located at the southernmost tip of South America…not exactly the crossroads of the world.

Francis will do fine, but he’s not in Kansas anymore.

What has the population of Argentina got to do with anything? And comparing it to California is a bit derisory. How many Catholics are there in California?

Are you saying that Popes from countries with larger general populations are somehow more qualified to be a better Pope? What nonsense.

The population of Italy is only 59 million. Does that mean that the Church has gotten it wrong all those times when it chose an Italian Pope?

As far as Catholicism goes, South America is the Catholic ‘heartland’ of the world. It seems very appropriate that the Holy Spirit has guided our cardinals to choose a South-American pope.

 

[Brendan_64]

Yes, Benedict is a kind and caring person. I say that and I have not seen a post which says otherwise.

The fact that someone is enthusiastic about Pope Francis does not mean that he is unappreciative of what Pope Benedict has done.

The fact that some people seem to prefer Pope Francis over his predecessor is also perfectly acceptable, and in no way derides Pope Benedict. We are allowed to have preferences.

 

[Brendan_64]

Double post

 

[TexanKnight]

I think the Pope’s recent comments is what has truly gotten me thinking about things that others, on other threads, have not taken well.

And I think some here who said they were acting a little Pharisee is exactly what I mean.

As I have posted, Jesus said that whoever is not against us is for us. And Jesus chastised those who leaned too heavily on traditions of men and the laws of men.

“Suffer the children to come unto me”. It would seem The Holy Father is taking that approach. I don’t know…but his comments have had me doing some serious pondering.

 

[TimothyH]

What a great story of St. Francis and no, I hadn’t heard that one before. I’ve read several books on his life–he’s my sister’s patron saint per her chosen Confirmation name and so I’ve always had a special fondness for him. He really did write the book on humility didn’t he? Anyway, St. Francis’ prayer ("Make me an instrument of thy peace…)is another thing that I’ve always loved deeply. When they announced that the new pope had chosen him for his papal name I was truly thrilled and a little awed–so no, I meant no disrespect–only that Pope Frances, to me, IS a little Jesuit priest–a humble, older man, a kindly gentleman, from a small, poor, Latin American country who has had one of the biggest jobs in the whole world thrust on him at one of the most difficult times for the Catholic faith in the history of the world. For me, I pray for that little Jesuit every day!

This is fantasy.

He is not a little Jesuit priest, a kindly gentleman who had the Papacy thrust upon him. He is a highly educated scholar and experienced leader.

He has been a Jesuit for over 50 years. He holds doctorate degrees, is a college professor who speaks eight languages, was the archbishop of one South America’s largest archdiocese, served twice as the president of the Argentine Conference of Bishops, served as leader of five different congregations on the Roman Curia and was a member of the college of cardinals who came in second to Pope Benedict XVI in the last papal election.

He is not some country-bumkin priest from the middle of nowhere. Continue to pray for him but please stop making him out to be less than he really is.

-Tim-

 

[Elizabeth502]

Jesus chastised those who leaned too heavily on traditions of men and the laws of men.

Yes. But that is irrelevant, because Sacred Tradition and the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church are not

the traditions of men and the laws of men.

They are the laws of God, guided by the Holy Spirit, promised to the Church by Jesus Himself.

 

[gracepoole]

Actually, no I didn’t catch that it was written by Pius X! OOPS–my bad and I apologize sincerely–no disrespect intended I assure you.

I still disagree with him–but I’d have certainly stated it differently if I’d noted the author! Mea culpa!

But of course, isn’t this Pius X’s point? Isn’t he claiming that we don’t have the proper vantage point from which to criticize a pope for a lack of clarity?

“Therefore, when we love the Pope, there are no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed; when we love the Pope, we do not say that he has not spoken clearly enough, almost as if he were forced to repeat to the ear of each one the will clearly expressed so many times not only in person, but with letters and other public documents; we do not place his orders in doubt, adding the facile pretext of those unwilling to obey – that it is not the Pope who commands, but those who surround him; we do not limit the field in which he might and must exercise his authority; one does not oppose to the Pope’s authority that of others, however learned they may be, who differ from him. For however great their learning, they must be lacking in holiness, for there can be no holiness in dissension from the Pope.” (Pope St. Pius X, allocution of 18 November 1912, AAS vol. 4 (1912), 695).

 

[Brendan_64]

This is fantasy.

He is not a little Jesuit priest, a kindly gentleman who had the Papacy thrust upon him. He is a highly educated scholar and experienced leader.

He has been a Jesuit for over 50 years. He holds doctorate degrees, is a college professor who speaks eight languages, was the archbishop of one South America’s largest archdiocese, served twice as the president of the Argentine Conference of Bishops, served as leader of five different congregations on the Roman Curia and was a member of the college of cardinals who came in second to Pope Benedict XVI in the last papal election.

He is not some country-bumkin priest from the middle of nowhere. Continue to pray for him but please stop making him out to be less than he really is.

-Tim-

 

[TexanKnight]

Yes. But that is irrelevant, because Sacred Tradition and the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church are not

really? How about celibacy? How about annulments…I am all for tradition, but don’t get carried away.

By the way, I am in favor of celibacy…I am just making a pointThey are the laws of God, guided by the Holy Spirit, promised to the Church by Jesus Himself.

 

[Starrsmother]

But of course, isn’t this Pius X’s point? Isn’t he claiming that we don’t have the proper vantage point from which to criticize a pope for a lack of clarity?

“Therefore, when we love the Pope, there are no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed; when we love the Pope, we do not say that he has not spoken clearly enough, almost as if he were forced to repeat to the ear of each one the will clearly expressed so many times not only in person, but with letters and other public documents; we do not place his orders in doubt, adding the facile pretext of those unwilling to obey – that it is not the Pope who commands, but those who surround him; we do not limit the field in which he might and must exercise his authority; one does not oppose to the Pope’s authority that of others, however learned they may be, who differ from him. For however great their learning, they must be lacking in holiness, for there can be no holiness in dissension from the Pope.” (Pope St. Pius X, allocution of 18 November 1912, AAS vol. 4 (1912), 695).

Perhaps that was indeed his point–I can’t say. I just feel that I can love a pope–or, for that matter personally dislike a particular pope or find him irritating even as an individual–and still submit myself to his authority in matters of faith as required of all Catholics. With respect to Pope Pius–I found these particular remarks of his to be somewhat arrogant and a bit high handed. What he seems to believe is that to love the pope and respect him one mustn’t even do any thinking–simply use blind obedience in all things–“If the pope says the world is flat–it’s flat and end of discussion!”. If the pope decrees something and does so utilizing his singular gift of infallibility–that is a separate issue of course, and in that case, there’s no room for personal opinion–we must accept and obey. The above letter was his opinion. I read it and considered it and my own feeling was " Thanks–but no thanks. I choose to disagree." Someone else has every right to think he was 100% correct and act accordingly.

 

[catholicmom2010]

I got this in an email from the Ruth Institute- great analogy on both the atheist comments and the recent interview:
**Are the Hebrews finally getting with the times and joining the Roman Empire? …This is how I respond to people who are concerned about the Pope’s recent comments on atheists.**by Jennifer Roback Morse

Many of my Evangelical friends have asked me what I think of the controversy over Pope Francis supposedly saying that atheists can be saved. This is my answer.

The Roman Guardian: Eastern Mediterranean edition

The headlines swirled around the Levant as itinerant preacher Jesus of Nazareth reportedly excuses both prostitutes and the men who frequent them. The latest controversy came when Jesus, whose followers believe is the Son of God, retold the story of a family whose younger son had squandered the family inheritance with prostitutes.

Roman observers speculate that this is a sign of a new openness to Roman social mores.

Lucius Gaius Paterculus, spokesman for the Herod Administration, said, “We have always found these Hebrews amusing, with all their sexual hang-ups. This is the Roman Empire; they need to get with the times. Prostitution is not so bad. Maybe this Jesus preacher will turn the tide and lead these backward people into the modern world.”

Earlier this spring, Jesus created a sensation when he protected an alleged adulteress, and even broke bread with her.

Reuben bar Timeus told the Guardian, “I recognized my father in that story Jesus told. He can’t disguise the characters in his parables enough to hide the fact that he was talking about my putz of a brother and my pathetic father. I’m considering a slander suit. This Jesus guy should keep his mouth shut and show some respect to our family.”

Reuben’s younger brother, Benjamin, spent the last year with prostitutes and the dissolute, living in a “far country” widely supposed to be Babylon. The family’s story was known in the neighborhood but came to prominence this past week, when Jesus made a thinly veiled reference to it in response to questioning by a group of distinguished Pharisees. As Jesus retold the story, the father allegedly saw the boy coming home from a long way off and ran down the road to meet him. The boy allegedly came home in contrition and with a sincere heart, but his brother was skeptical.

“This latest incident was the last straw,” said Reuben. “My father made a fool of himself, running down the road in his white robes, greeting this son of his. He threw a banquet and gave him a new robe and ring. If that is not excusing consorting with prostitutes, I don’t know what is. And now this Jesus guy comes in on the side of my dad at his worst… and my loser brother, too!”

Last spring, Jesus not only ate with prostitutes, but with notorious tax farmer and extortionist, Matthew of Judea, (also known as Levi, son of Alphaeus). All this leaves some wondering whether a new softening is coming in Jewish doctrine across the board.

But the Jewish community continues to be divided between hard-liners and progressives.

Caiphas, current High Priest for the Jews in Jerusalem, denied that any change in Jewish law is in the works. “This Jesus has no authority to change the law, and certainly no authority to forgive sins. People are attracted to him because he makes them feel good – even better than they deserve.”

The Jesus movement has been controversial since its inception last spring, with reports of miraculous healings and exorcisms.

Simon bar Jonah, speaking for the Jesus Movement, said Jesus loves everyone and wants to save everyone.

Marcus Aggripus, reporting from Judea.

 

[severus68]

The fact that someone is enthusiastic about Pope Francis does not mean that he is unappreciative of what Pope Benedict has done.

The fact that some people seem to prefer Pope Francis over his predecessor is also perfectly acceptable, and in no way derides Pope Benedict. We are allowed to have preferences.

Agreed.

 

[Starrsmother]

I got this in an email from the Ruth Institute- great analogy on both the atheist comments and the recent interview:
**Are the Hebrews finally getting with the times and joining the Roman Empire? …This is how I respond to people who are concerned about the Pope’s recent comments on atheists.**by Jennifer Roback Morse

Many of my Evangelical friends have asked me what I think of the controversy over Pope Francis supposedly saying that atheists can be saved. This is my answer.

The Roman Guardian: Eastern Mediterranean edition

The headlines swirled around the Levant as itinerant preacher Jesus of Nazareth reportedly excuses both prostitutes and the men who frequent them. The latest controversy came when Jesus, whose followers believe is the Son of God, retold the story of a family whose younger son had squandered the family inheritance with prostitutes.

Roman observers speculate that this is a sign of a new openness to Roman social mores.

Lucius Gaius Paterculus, spokesman for the Herod Administration, said, “We have always found these Hebrews amusing, with all their sexual hang-ups. This is the Roman Empire; they need to get with the times. Prostitution is not so bad. Maybe this Jesus preacher will turn the tide and lead these backward people into the modern world.”

Earlier this spring, Jesus created a sensation when he protected an alleged adulteress, and even broke bread with her.

Reuben bar Timeus told the Guardian, “I recognized my father in that story Jesus told. He can’t disguise the characters in his parables enough to hide the fact that he was talking about my putz of a brother and my pathetic father. I’m considering a slander suit. This Jesus guy should keep his mouth shut and show some respect to our family.”

Reuben’s younger brother, Benjamin, spent the last year with prostitutes and the dissolute, living in a “far country” widely supposed to be Babylon. The family’s story was known in the neighborhood but came to prominence this past week, when Jesus made a thinly veiled reference to it in response to questioning by a group of distinguished Pharisees. As Jesus retold the story, the father allegedly saw the boy coming home from a long way off and ran down the road to meet him. The boy allegedly came home in contrition and with a sincere heart, but his brother was skeptical.

“This latest incident was the last straw,” said Reuben. “My father made a fool of himself, running down the road in his white robes, greeting this son of his. He threw a banquet and gave him a new robe and ring. If that is not excusing consorting with prostitutes, I don’t know what is. And now this Jesus guy comes in on the side of my dad at his worst… and my loser brother, too!”

Last spring, Jesus not only ate with prostitutes, but with notorious tax farmer and extortionist, Matthew of Judea, (also known as Levi, son of Alphaeus). All this leaves some wondering whether a new softening is coming in Jewish doctrine across the board.

But the Jewish community continues to be divided between hard-liners and progressives.

Caiphas, current High Priest for the Jews in Jerusalem, denied that any change in Jewish law is in the works. “This Jesus has no authority to change the law, and certainly no authority to forgive sins. People are attracted to him because he makes them feel good – even better than they deserve.”

The Jesus movement has been controversial since its inception last spring, with reports of miraculous healings and exorcisms.

Simon bar Jonah, speaking for the Jesus Movement, said Jesus loves everyone and wants to save everyone.

Marcus Aggripus, reporting from Judea.

BWA-HA-HA! Someone needs to submit this to the Huff Post! i’m gonna try to copy it for FB!

 

[Jeanne_S]

Having myself been the prodigal son on more than one occasion, I fully understand what the Holy Father is saying.

On my first “prodigal son” experience, I too was obsessed by the rules. I thought that if only I could follow them perfectly, my sins would be overcome.

The thing is that the poison came out in other ways and those ways were just as hurtful, if not more, to those around me.

The second experience made me realize how dependent we really are on grace and mercy.

I look at the Holy Father’s recent statements like this. Imagine a doctor diagnosing lung cancer in a patient who didn’t follow the “rules” but smoked all his life. Now the doctor could go on blathering about the rules of healthy living: not smoking, drinking moderately, eating right, etc.

But that won’t help the patient. It will in fact just drive him away to seek help elsewhere, maybe alternative medicines that are hoaxes and will just hasten his doom (analogous to going to looking for spiritual nourishment outside the Church when we feel judged, unwanted, etc.).

What the patient needs is kind, compassionate care, and the right medicine.

The Church is the same: she can either attract the sinners into her bosom and offer them the only medicine that will truly work, that is Grace, or she can go on lecturing about the rules and drive people away to seek “alternative medicines” in the form of off-the-wall spirituality (New Age, etc.).

We are all sinners, we all deeply wounded in some way, and our deepest, most habitual and worst sins emanate from those wounds. That’s what the Church needs to be: a hospital for us sinners, where the love, Grace and Divine Mercy of our Redeemer can heal us; that healing, and not a lecture about the “rules”, is what will help us overcome our breach of them.

What a beautiful analogy!
I too,am a prodigal daughter. Personally speaking,if not for the compassion and love and forgiveness I received from God,through a healing retreat,I shudder to think where I would be today.

 

[Brendan_64]

I got this in an email from the Ruth Institute- great analogy on both the atheist comments and the recent interview:
**Are the Hebrews finally getting with the times and joining the Roman Empire? …This is how I respond to people who are concerned about the Pope’s recent comments on atheists.**by Jennifer Roback Morse

Many of my Evangelical friends have asked me what I think of the controversy over Pope Francis supposedly saying that atheists can be saved. This is my answer.

The Roman Guardian: Eastern Mediterranean edition

The headlines swirled around the Levant as itinerant preacher Jesus of Nazareth reportedly excuses both prostitutes and the men who frequent them. The latest controversy came when Jesus, whose followers believe is the Son of God, retold the story of a family whose younger son had squandered the family inheritance with prostitutes.

Roman observers speculate that this is a sign of a new openness to Roman social mores.

Lucius Gaius Paterculus, spokesman for the Herod Administration, said, “We have always found these Hebrews amusing, with all their sexual hang-ups. This is the Roman Empire; they need to get with the times. Prostitution is not so bad. Maybe this Jesus preacher will turn the tide and lead these backward people into the modern world.”

Earlier this spring, Jesus created a sensation when he protected an alleged adulteress, and even broke bread with her.

Reuben bar Timeus told the Guardian, “I recognized my father in that story Jesus told. He can’t disguise the characters in his parables enough to hide the fact that he was talking about my putz of a brother and my pathetic father. I’m considering a slander suit. This Jesus guy should keep his mouth shut and show some respect to our family.”

Reuben’s younger brother, Benjamin, spent the last year with prostitutes and the dissolute, living in a “far country” widely supposed to be Babylon. The family’s story was known in the neighborhood but came to prominence this past week, when Jesus made a thinly veiled reference to it in response to questioning by a group of distinguished Pharisees. As Jesus retold the story, the father allegedly saw the boy coming home from a long way off and ran down the road to meet him. The boy allegedly came home in contrition and with a sincere heart, but his brother was skeptical.

“This latest incident was the last straw,” said Reuben. “My father made a fool of himself, running down the road in his white robes, greeting this son of his. He threw a banquet and gave him a new robe and ring. If that is not excusing consorting with prostitutes, I don’t know what is. And now this Jesus guy comes in on the side of my dad at his worst… and my loser brother, too!”

Last spring, Jesus not only ate with prostitutes, but with notorious tax farmer and extortionist, Matthew of Judea, (also known as Levi, son of Alphaeus). All this leaves some wondering whether a new softening is coming in Jewish doctrine across the board.

But the Jewish community continues to be divided between hard-liners and progressives.

Caiphas, current High Priest for the Jews in Jerusalem, denied that any change in Jewish law is in the works. “This Jesus has no authority to change the law, and certainly no authority to forgive sins. People are attracted to him because he makes them feel good – even better than they deserve.”

The Jesus movement has been controversial since its inception last spring, with reports of miraculous healings and exorcisms.

Simon bar Jonah, speaking for the Jesus Movement, said Jesus loves everyone and wants to save everyone.

Marcus Aggripus, reporting from Judea.