Is Pope Francis reaching out to the prodigals and are some of us feeling like the older brother?

[Pax2u]

Has any such person been refused entry to a Catholic church?

I’ll re-emphasize: I’m in full agreement with welcoming everyone into church. I always have been. I’m in full agreement that there’s more to the Catholic faith than abortion, homosexuality, and birth control. I always have been, and the Church IS doing those other things. My problem is the feeling that millions of Catholics have been falsely, very unjustly, accused of things they never did, said, felt, or thought.

Thanks for your post. I’ve been having a really hard time putting into words why this whole thing has been bothering me, and you said pretty much what I’m experiencing. I just don’t get it…the church has always been about welcoming sinners. What kind of churches has he experienced if he thinks people who are sinning are kicked out? I’m 60 years old cradle Catholic…never seen or heard of such a thing.

 

[severus68]

I haven’t seen anyone say that it is. But the best way to show people that is to draw them to Jesus. And the Holy Father is asking us to do that by living the Gospel. That idea isn’t any more radical now than it’s been for the last 2000 years. Nor any easier.

Yes.

 

[OraLabora]

I guess my worry is that I’m not sure what the Holy Father wants the faithful to do exactly. I think there needs to be an alternative to coming across as sticklers for right and wrong – judgmental, uncharitable and compassionate – or coming across as having no moral position whatsoever, and being OK with and even accepting of immorality.

I think the point is that none of us are in control of an other persons’ morality-or immorality-but rather we are only in control of our own. The Church can teach morality but in essence she is preaching to the choir in a manner of speaking. The message is not getting out.

The idea is that we ourselves live the Gospel in our daily lives, refrain from calling others on their “sins” as we perceive them, work rather on our own sins, and become beacons of stability, hope and serenity in the face of challenges. And that we welcome every person, every sinner into the Church, in the manner of St. Benedict “as if every person walking through the door was Christ Himself in person”.

Every sinner, even notorious ones, every gay activist, every abortionist every adulterer, etc., whether we like it or not, was created in God’s image.

The idea is to create a climate where we can attract the walking wounded, the suffering (as all sinners are), into the Church’s bosom, and from there, help them with their personal conversion.

Conversion is a life-long process. I think the Holy Father as a Jesuit probably recognizes this. We have to accept for instance, that the gay activist may have a long road ahead of him before he becomes totally chaste, a road with many bumps and setbacks, and a road that requires healing. So in addition from refraining from judgment before they come into the Church, we have to refrain from judging them even as they proceed on their conversion journey.

When I first came back to the Church 16 years ago, I too thought understanding and following doctrine was going to “save me”.

I turned out to be completely wrong. It was studying the Rule of St. Benedict that I realized that conversion is a life-long journey, and not everyone is at the same milepost at the same time. And that the only true medicine for conversion was Grace. Not lectures on morality, not even prayer by itself. It has to be prayer that opens your heart to letting in God’s grace. That process is helped by one’s self opening up his or her heart to everyone, no matter how hard it seems at times.

My wife, a family physician, has to deal with addicts a lot in her practice. She says that everyone of us sinners, and especially so addicts or people addicted to destructive behaviour, have a God-sized hole in our hearts that we try to fill with anything but God, and it’s a hunger that can only be sated by God.

The Holy Father has repeatedly said that the Church’s moral position is clear, but he’s also saying that lecturing the lost about it will not bring them to Christ. Christ went out among them, and we must emulate Him.

 

[severus68]

I think the point is that none of us are in control of an other persons’ morality-or immorality-but rather we are only in control of our own. The Church can teach morality but in essence she is preaching to the choir in a manner of speaking. The message is not getting out.

The idea is that we ourselves live the Gospel in our daily lives, refrain from calling others on their “sins” as we perceive them, work rather on our own sins, and become beacons of stability, hope and serenity in the face of challenges. And that we welcome every person, every sinner into the Church, in the manner of St. Benedict “as if every person walking through the door was Christ Himself in person”.

Every sinner, even notorious ones, every gay activist, every abortionist every adulterer, etc., whether we like it or not, was created in God’s image.

The idea is to create a climate where we can attract the walking wounded, the suffering (as all sinners are), into the Church’s bosom, and from there, help them with their personal conversion.

Conversion is a life-long process. I think the Holy Father as a Jesuit probably recognizes this. We have to accept for instance, that the gay activist may have a long road ahead of him before he becomes totally chaste, a road with many bumps and setbacks, and a road that requires healing. So in addition from refraining from judgment before they come into the Church, we have to refrain from judging them even as they proceed on their conversion journey.

When I first came back to the Church 16 years ago, I too thought understanding and following doctrine was going to “save me”.

I turned out to be completely wrong. It was studying the Rule of St. Benedict that I realized that conversion is a life-long journey, and not everyone is at the same milepost at the same time. And that the only true medicine for conversion was Grace. Not lectures on morality, not even prayer by itself. It has to be prayer that opens your heart to letting in God’s grace. That process is helped by one’s self opening up his or her heart to everyone, no matter how hard it seems at times.

My wife, a family physician, has to deal with addicts a lot in her practice. She says that everyone of us sinners, and especially so addicts or people addicted to destructive behaviour, have a God-sized hole in our hearts that we try to fill with anything but God, and it’s a hunger that can only be sated by God.

The Holy Father has repeatedly said that the Church’s moral position is clear, but he’s also saying that lecturing the lost about it will not bring them to Christ. Christ went out among them, and we must emulate Him.

This.

 

[Do_Good_Then_Go]

I think the point is that none of us are in control of an other persons’ morality-or immorality-but rather we are only in control of our own. The Church can teach morality but in essence she is preaching to the choir in a manner of speaking. The message is not getting out.

The idea is that we ourselves live the Gospel in our daily lives, refrain from calling others on their “sins” as we perceive them, work rather on our own sins, and become beacons of stability, hope and serenity in the face of challenges. And that we welcome every person, every sinner into the Church, in the manner of St. Benedict “as if every person walking through the door was Christ Himself in person”.

Every sinner, even notorious ones, every gay activist, every abortionist every adulterer, etc., whether we like it or not, was created in God’s image.

The idea is to create a climate where we can attract the walking wounded, the suffering (as all sinners are), into the Church’s bosom, and from there, help them with their personal conversion.

Conversion is a life-long process. I think the Holy Father as a Jesuit probably recognizes this. We have to accept for instance, that the gay activist may have a long road ahead of him before he becomes totally chaste, a road with many bumps and setbacks, and a road that requires healing. So in addition from refraining from judgment before they come into the Church, we have to refrain from judging them even as they proceed on their conversion journey.

When I first came back to the Church 16 years ago, I too thought understanding and following doctrine was going to “save me”.

I turned out to be completely wrong. It was studying the Rule of St. Benedict that I realized that conversion is a life-long journey, and not everyone is at the same milepost at the same time. And that the only true medicine for conversion was Grace. Not lectures on morality, not even prayer by itself. It has to be prayer that opens your heart to letting in God’s grace. That process is helped by one’s self opening up his or her heart to everyone, no matter how hard it seems at times.

My wife, a family physician, has to deal with addicts a lot in her practice. She says that everyone of us sinners, and especially so addicts or people addicted to destructive behaviour, have a God-sized hole in our hearts that we try to fill with anything but God, and it’s a hunger that can only be sated by God.

The Holy Father has repeatedly said that the Church’s moral position is clear, but he’s also saying that lecturing the lost about it will not bring them to Christ. Christ went out among them, and we must emulate Him.

Great post!

 

[Elizabeth502]

There is often coming from more progressive Catholics an implication that traditionalists are too judgmental or lacking in charity, intolerant, Pharisees, etc. In my book, that’s uncharitable and judgmental.

Not just “in your book.” It’s objectively uncharitable, intolerant, Pharisaical. The very assumption of it violates charity.

 

[Elizabeth502]

The idea is that we ourselves live the Gospel in our daily lives, refrain from calling others on their “sins” as we perceive them, work rather on our own sins, and become beacons of stability, hope and serenity in the face of challenges. And that we welcome every person, every sinner into the Church, in the manner of St. Benedict “as if every person walking through the door was Christ Himself in person”.

Old news. Nothing new. As you yourself are suggesting, Saint Benedict exhorted as much.

Every sinner, even notorious ones, every gay activist, every abortionist every adulterer, etc., whether we like it or not, was created in God’s image.

Not a new message. Ancient, actually

Conversion is a life-long process. I think the Holy Father as a Jesuit probably recognizes this.

Not only is this not a new message, many Saints recognized that, and absolutely JP2 spoke about conversion being a life-long process.

We have to accept for instance, that the gay activist may have a long road ahead of him before he becomes totally chaste, a road with many bumps and setbacks, and a road that requires healing.

Not a new thought; not a new message. The Catholic Church’s active ministry to homosexuals (Courage) and to parents of those (EnCourage) is highly realistic about the same. Many former homosexual activists have entered these programs long before our current Holy Father was elected. Such programs have been somewhat replicated on parish levels, with the explicit understanding of the need for life-long conversion, which is why Catholic support groups have been available for them for many years prior to Francis.

So in addition from refraining from judgment before they come into the Church, we have to refrain from judging them even as they proceed on their conversion journey.

Same things the Saints have counseled us and modeled for us, for centuries.

When I first came back to the Church 16 years ago, I too thought understanding and following doctrine was going to “save me”.

Funny, I never thought that, because I always knew, from Church teaching, that the mercy of God awaits those who turn to Him without exception or excuse.

… have a God-sized hole in our hearts that we try to fill with anything but God, and it’s a hunger that can only be sated by God.

Indeed. St. Augustine said this centuries ago.

The Holy Father has repeatedly said that the Church’s moral position is clear, but he’s also saying that lecturing the lost about it will not bring them to Christ.

I don’t know a single layperson, priest, bishop, or previous Pope who has ever suggested that “lecturing the lost will bring them to Christ.” I have no idea where some of you come up with this stuff. Seriously. Such thoughts are not a part of Catholicism and have never been. Correction as to doctrine or facts is for the intellectually lost, not the spiritually lost. Unfortunately, however, there is a very large (actually a majority) of practicing Catholics today who are intellectually lost as to the foundations of the faith.

Ora, there’s nothing factually incorrect about your post. But what it represents, by implication, is a giant-sized Straw Man which has been created by some Catholics and by even more in the secular media, with repeated bonfires scheduled throughout the last two weeks.

Absurd waste of time and keystrokes, in an apparent effort (not necessarily by you, perhaps by some) to reinvent Catholic spiritual history itself.

 

[severus68]

Old news. Nothing new. As you yourself are suggesting, Saint Benedict exhorted as much.

Not a new message. Ancient, actually

Not only is this not a new message, many Saints recognized that, and absolutely JP2 spoke about conversion being a life-long process.

Not a new thought; not a new message. The Catholic Church’s active ministry to homosexuals (Courage) and to parents of those (EnCourage) is highly realistic about the same. Many former homosexual activists have entered these programs long before our current Holy Father was elected. Such programs have been somewhat replicated on parish levels, with the explicit understanding of the need for life-long conversion, which is why Catholic support groups have been available for them for many years prior to Francis.

Same things the Saints have counseled us and modeled for us, for centuries.

Funny, I never thought that, because I always knew, from Church teaching, that the mercy of God awaits those who turn to Him without exception or excuse.

Indeed. St. Augustine said this centuries ago.

I don’t know a single layperson, priest, bishop, or previous Pope who has ever suggested that “lecturing the lost will bring them to Christ.” I have no idea where some of you come up with this stuff. Seriously. Such thoughts are not a part of Catholicism and have never been. Correction as to doctrine or facts is for the intellectually lost, not the spiritually lost. Unfortunately, however, there is a very large (actually a majority) of practicing Catholics today who are intellectually lost as to the foundations of the faith.

Ora, there’s nothing factually incorrect about your post. But what it represents, by implication, is a giant-sized Straw Man which has been created by some Catholics and by even more in the secular media, with repeated bonfires scheduled throughout the last two weeks.

Absurd waste of time and keystrokes, in an apparent effort (not necessarily by you, perhaps by some) to reinvent Catholic spiritual history itself.

What is the purpose of this post please? What Ora said was worth saying even if it has been said by the Church many times.

What is the strawman in Ora’s post?

Others may not consider it a worst of time or effort. Not your call.

 

[Brendan_64]

There is often coming from more progressive Catholics an implication that traditionalists are too judgmental or lacking in charity, intolerant, Pharisees, etc. In my book, that’s uncharitable and judgmental. I am not saying it doesn’t happen, but when you come across it, do you forgive it and still love the person?

And likewise if a ‘progressive’ Catholic errs or is uncharitable do you forgive and love the person?

And I think everyone is in need of repentance. The day you get out bed convinced you’re not, you’re in trouble. I call that the sin of pride.

Yes we are all in need of repentance, but when a particular group of people is viewed as being in particular need of repentance (over others) is that not the sin of pride?

 

[Elizabeth502]

What is the purpose of this post please? What Ora said was worth saying even if it has been said by the Church many times.

What is the strawman in Ora’s post?

Others may not consider it a worst of time or effort. Not your call.

It’s as much my call as yours, or others. I have no problem with people using time repeating familiar Catholic spirituality. This is not the issue. The issue is the more than 1,000 posts on this forum in the last week, declaring the spirituality of Pope Francis to be “new,” “different,” or somehow opposed to the same spirituality transmitted by his two predecessors. It isn’t new, but it’s shocking how many Catholics know so little about their own faith that they receive it as “new.” That’s actually really sad, not to mention misinformed.

I don’t believe I said that Ora built a Straw Man. I said that others did (i,e., created an imagined contrary spirituality attributed to the recent past), What Ora summarized in his post is not (as articulated by them in other posts & other threads) some radical change in Catholicism or a “new” doctrine which is supposedly contradicting the entire history of Catholic spirituality.

A surprising amount of time to create a Straw Man to triumphantly demolish, when many who know the faith would invite them also to learn its history. History is a wonderful and useful thing. It also keeps one humble to realize that insights that one believes are “modern” are actually quite literally ancient or medieval. Earlier today I was listening to a Journey Home episode in which the guest spoke of the brilliance of the 13th century.

We don’t have a Scorched Earth policy in Catholicism, with the present or the future replacing or superseding the past. Many Catholics, actually, do not understand that. We are, unlike the vast majority of Protestant sects, uniquely continuous. We never replace Tradition. We merely build on it while preserving it.

 

[Tsuwano]

Having myself been the prodigal son on more than one occasion, I fully understand what the Holy Father is saying.

On my first “prodigal son” experience, I too was obsessed by the rules. I thought that if only I could follow them perfectly, my sins would be overcome.

The thing is that the poison came out in other ways and those ways were just as hurtful, if not more, to those around me.

The second experience made me realize how dependent we really are on grace and mercy.

I look at the Holy Father’s recent statements like this. Imagine a doctor diagnosing lung cancer in a patient who didn’t follow the “rules” but smoked all his life. Now the doctor could go on blathering about the rules of healthy living: not smoking, drinking moderately, eating right, etc.

But that won’t help the patient. It will in fact just drive him away to seek help elsewhere, maybe alternative medicines that are hoaxes and will just hasten his doom (analogous to going to looking for spiritual nourishment outside the Church when we feel judged, unwanted, etc.).

What the patient needs is kind, compassionate care, and the right medicine.

The Church is the same: she can either attract the sinners into her bosom and offer them the only medicine that will truly work, that is Grace, or she can go on lecturing about the rules and drive people away to seek “alternative medicines” in the form of off-the-wall spirituality (New Age, etc.).

We are all sinners, we all deeply wounded in some way, and our deepest, most habitual and worst sins emanate from those wounds. That’s what the Church needs to be: a hospital for us sinners, where the love, Grace and Divine Mercy of our Redeemer can heal us; that healing, and not a lecture about the “rules”, is what will help us overcome our breach of them.

I really like your analogy. I never really thought of it that way. Thanks.

 

[Brendan_64]

What the patient needs is kind, compassionate care, and the right medicine.

The Church is the same: she can either attract the sinners into her bosom and offer them the only medicine that will truly work, that is Grace, or she can go on lecturing about the rules and drive people away to seek “alternative medicines” in the form of off-the-wall spirituality (New Age, etc.).

We are all sinners, we all deeply wounded in some way, and our deepest, most habitual and worst sins emanate from those wounds. That’s what the Church needs to be: a hospital for us sinners, where the love, Grace and Divine Mercy of our Redeemer can heal us; that healing, and not a lecture about the “rules”, is what will help us overcome our breach of them.

Very good points.

‘Lectures about the rules’ can sometimes be more about what feels good for the person giving the lecture, than what is best for the person receiving the lecture.

The teachings and position of the Church needs to be made clear, but banging on about this to people and telling them how sinful they are will often drive these people further away. We want to encourage sinners to walk towards the light, not push them further into the darkness.

 

[severus68]

It’s as much my call as yours, or others. I have no problem with people using time repeating familiar Catholic spirituality. This is not the issue. The issue is the more than 1,000 posts on this forum in the last week, declaring the spirituality of Pope Francis to be “new,” “different,” or somehow opposed to the same spirituality transmitted by his two predecessors. It isn’t new, but it’s shocking how many Catholics know so little about their own faith that they receive it as “new.” That’s actually really sad, not to mention misinformed.

I don’t believe I said that Ora built a Straw Man. I said that others did (i,e., created an imagined contrary spirituality attributed to the recent past), What Ora summarized in his post is not (as articulated by them in other posts & other threads) some radical change in Catholicism or a “new” doctrine which is supposedly contradicting the entire history of Catholic spirituality.

A surprising amount of time to create a Straw Man to triumphantly demolish, when many who know the faith would invite them also to learn its history. History is a wonderful and useful thing. It also keeps one humble to realize that insights that one believes are “modern” are actually quite literally ancient or medieval. Earlier today I was listening to a Journey Home episode in which the guest spoke of the brilliance of the 13th century.

We don’t have a Scorched Earth policy in Catholicism, with the present or the future replacing or superseding the past. Many Catholics, actually, do not understand that. We are, unlike the vast majority of Protestant sects, uniquely continuous. We never replace Tradition. We merely build on it while preserving it.

I realised I used “worst” instead of “waste” - my apologies.

I don’t think any of those who posted said what Pope Francis said was new or superceded anything in Tradition. I love the Pope stressing the message of the Gospel as I loved Benedict trying so hard to bring Catholics into full union with the Church as I loved JPII for forgiving his assailant and so many other things.

The message of the Gospel is a message of hope of a new beginning for many people, of God’s love.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

It’s as much my call as yours, or others. I have no problem with people using time repeating familiar Catholic spirituality. This is not the issue. The issue is the more than 1,000 posts on this forum in the last week, declaring the spirituality of Pope Francis to be “new,” “different,” or somehow opposed to the same spirituality transmitted by his two predecessors. It isn’t new, but it’s shocking how many Catholics know so little about their own faith that they receive it as “new.” That’s actually really sad, not to mention misinformed.

If you read Francis’s interview and think there is nothing new about it, not even a new approach to public relations in the Church, then you haven’t been following the Church very closely. Now, perhaps this is not a repudiation of the past two popes. But it is certainly a change in strategy.

 

[clem456]

I hope Catholics can appreciate the Pope’s fresh pastoral approach and appreciate him as a unique human being with his own formation and vocation. Every person has a unique perspective and set of gifts which will change things for us in ways that can be changed. Pope Francis speaks about the Church’s strengths and weaknesses and his “dream” for the Church.
In any event, he says very little about doctrine and dogma. He has said multiple times now he is “a son of the Church” and the Church has spoken" on Church teaching. If people would just read what he said, there is very little confusion to be found. I think most of the confusion stems from Catholics wanting to preserve their own viewpoint, ways of thinking and behaving. Change is difficult. A common theme throughout his preaching and teaching is to challenge the Catholic faithful, not reinforce doctrine to folks who don’t want it or accept it anyway.

The Church as Field Hospital

…Pope Francis begins by showing great affection and immense respect for his predecessor: “Pope Benedict has done an act of holiness, greatness, humility. He is a man of God.

“the thing the church needs most today is the ability to heal wounds and to warm the hearts of the faithful; it needs nearness, proximity. I see the church as a field hospital after battle.”“I see clearly,” the pope continues, “that the thing the church needs most today is the ability to heal wounds and to warm the hearts of the faithful; it needs nearness, proximity. I see the church as a field hospital after battle. It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars! You have to heal his wounds. Then we can talk about everything else. Heal the wounds, heal the wounds… And you have to start from the ground up.

“The church sometimes has locked itself up in small things, in small-minded rules. The most important thing is the first proclamation: Jesus Christ has saved you. And the ministers of the church must be ministers of mercy above all. The confessor, for example, is always in danger of being either too much of a rigorist or too lax. Neither is merciful, because neither of them really takes responsibility for the person. The rigorist washes his hands so that he leaves it to the commandment. The loose minister washes his hands by simply saying, ‘This is not a sin’ or something like that. In pastoral ministry we must accompany people, and we must heal their wounds.

“How are we treating the people of God? I dream of a church that is a mother and shepherdess. The church’s ministers must be merciful, take responsibility for the people and accompany them like the good Samaritan, who washes, cleans and raises up his neighbor. This is pure Gospel. God is greater than sin. The structural and organizational reforms are secondary—that is, they come afterward. The first reform must be the attitude. The ministers of the Gospel must be people who can warm the hearts of the people, who walk through the dark night with them, who know how to dialogue and to descend themselves into their people’s night, into the darkness, but without getting lost. The people of God want pastors, not clergy acting like bureaucrats or government officials. The bishops, particularly, must be able to support the movements of God among their people with patience, so that no one is left behind. But they must also be able to accompany the flock that has a flair for finding new paths.

“Instead of being just a church that welcomes and receives by keeping the doors open, let us try also to be a church that finds new roads, that is able to step outside itself and go to those who do not attend Mass, to those who have quit or are indifferent. The ones who quit sometimes do it for reasons that, if properly understood and assessed, can lead to a return. But that takes audacity and courage.”

…
“We need to proclaim the Gospel on every street corner,” the pope says, “preaching the good news of the kingdom and healing, even with our preaching, every kind of disease and wound. In Buenos Aires I used to receive letters from homosexual persons who are ‘socially wounded’ because they tell me that they feel like the church has always condemned them. But the church does not want to do this. During the return flight from Rio de Janeiro I said that if a homosexual person is of good will and is in search of God, I am no one to judge. By saying this, I said what the catechism says. Religion has the right to express its opinion in the service of the people, but God in creation has set us free: it is not possible to interfere spiritually in the life of a person.

“A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person. ”“A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person. Here we enter into the mystery of the human being. In life, God accompanies persons, and we must accompany them, starting from their situation. It is necessary to accompany them with mercy. When that happens, the Holy Spirit inspires the priest to say the right thing.
…
“We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time.

 

[57Bill]

But here’s the thing - sometimes I have this fear. And if I look at it closely, I see myself, being a very good imitation of the older brother in the parable of the Prodigal Son.

It’s a spiritual test for me. Maybe it is for a lot of us. In my heart of hearts, I don’t think we need to be so fearful. Easier said than done, maybe, but doable. :curtsey:

Thanks for starting this thread. I read something from Bl. John Paul II that may or may not help somewhat with what Pope Francis said.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_02121984_reconciliatio-et-paenitentia_en.html

… To the Brother Who Stayed at Home

scroll down to #6

 

[Elizabeth502]

I don’t think any of those who posted said what Pope Francis said was new or superceded anything in Tradition.

Reread, or at least scan, the 1000+ post thread in Catholic News, now locked for size reasons. Both explicit and implicit statements there about how “different” his message is. It isn’t different. Posters are just choosing to regard it as different, and to pretend that he has subordinated some fixed doctrine below other doctrine, which he hasn’t. And if he did so, he would be a heretic, which he is not. The Spin Cycle on this has been completely out of control and irrational.

The message of the Gospel is a message of hope of a new beginning for many people, of God’s love.

Yep. A 2,000-year old message, repeated by every Pope of modern memory.

 

[Lifesong]

As a convert from the Methodist faith I am very comfortable with the grace filled approach of the Holy Father. There is something very Methodist actually about this Pope and I mean that in a good sense. I know from my own life until I became committed to Christ during a time of personal crisis seven years ago, no amount of doctrine or dogma would have convinced me. I was pro choice and socially liberal. But as I grew in my walk with Lord and had to know where my husband was coming from as an ex Catholic which led to Him leading me to His Church, I now assent to the teachings because I love the Lord too much not to try to follow His commandments. All I know is my non Catholic young adult children are actually taking a second look at what the Church is all about because of Pope Francis. As a now daily Mass attending, rosary praying, 40 days for life participating Catholic gal I have no fear- I trust the Lord that He has Pope Francis right where He needs him in this day and time!

Blessings,

Val

 

[bquinnan]

I think the point is that none of us are in control of an other persons’ morality-or immorality-but rather we are only in control of our own. The Church can teach morality but in essence she is preaching to the choir in a manner of speaking. The message is not getting out.

The idea is that we ourselves live the Gospel in our daily lives, refrain from calling others on their “sins” as we perceive them, work rather on our own sins, and become beacons of stability, hope and serenity in the face of challenges. And that we welcome every person, every sinner into the Church, in the manner of St. Benedict “as if every person walking through the door was Christ Himself in person”.

Thank you for a well-thought-out response to my question. You’re right, and I think you may be getting at the heart of what Pope Francis is saying – that we need to focus on being lights of the world ourselves rather than pointing out the sins of others. You are also right that the message of the Church doesn’t seem to be getting through.

I’m still unsure, however, how we go about protecting our religious freedoms on the political front without bringing up some of these things. There are many who would like to see Catholic institutions – hospitals, schools, charitable organizations and even Churches, as well as private entities that are not Catholic, per se, but are owned and operated by people who happen to be Catholic – be forced to engage in very unchristian practices in the name of fairness and equality, as they see them.

For example, a wedding photographer has had the courts telling her she has no right to refuse to take pictures at a gay “wedding.” Catholic adoption agencies have had to close their doors to avoid handing children over to gay couples. Catholic hospitals have had to resist pressure to provide contraception and even abortion, and pay for contraception for employees as medical benefits.

I agree that we don’t want to go on and on about highlighting particular sins, we do need to fight the pressure to engage in them and do our best to preserve our religious freedom.

 

[catholicmom2010]

Before I begin this little piece for reflection, I just want to say that our Moderators have already made it clear that we shouldn’t presume to judge the Pope:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=764882

I wouldn’t be surprised if some recent threads got shut down . . . but that’s not for me to decide, 'nuff said. Now for my “pearls of wisdom,” for whatever they’re worth. :twocents:

I’m a morally “conservative” cradle Catholic. I have the reaction too sometimes - "The Pope said what?!" Although I’m learning to 1) fall back on the good catechesis I received as a child and continued from that time to the present, and 2) go to sources that are Catholic, not secular, for any further clarification I desire.

But here’s the thing - sometimes I have this fear. And if I look at it closely, I see myself, being a very good imitation of the older brother in the parable of the Prodigal Son. Sometimes I fear the rules won’t be enforced enough, won’t be enforced for someone else, etc. - when I have followed them all my life (mostly) and fought for them and helped explain them to people and all these efforts I’ve made.

And it is my realization, perhaps our Holy Father is like that father in the story Jesus told. He’s out there on the road, looking for ways to reach those prodigal sons and daughters. Am I going to feel all put out and envious and afraid? Or am I going to join in the celebration?

It’s a spiritual test for me. Maybe it is for a lot of us. In my heart of hearts, I don’t think we need to be so fearful. Easier said than done, maybe, but doable. :curtsey:

Thanks so much for your thoughts- they hit very close home to me. Your words have helped me to see where I need to meditate on the message of mercy. I hope you don’t mind if I share your post with some non-Catholic Answers friends. I would love to ask our parish to put this in the bulletin, with your permission. I think many people would find it helpful.