Is Pope Francis really that liberal?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Roguish
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
commenter said:
Today the Vatican is more in a passive mode. They proclaim whatever truths are currently popular, in the media. They also do mention abortion. It is one of the top 50 priorities now. The Pope does say prolife is important … When he talks to prolifers.
Click to expand...
This is the best analysis of the current Vatican. It is in passive mode, which means it no longer fights the culture war or the culture of death. I’ll express no judgment on this position because I fear I’ll contravene forum rules. But I will say this: the laity has to counter the passive mode by becoming very active.
 
Last edited:
I finally got off the roller coaster that is the critic’s portrayal of Pope Francis. And here is why, every journalist and every Vatican spokesperson that comes along is free to apply a certain amount of spin with every article they put out. It is impossible for the “real” Pope Francis to stand up. While it is true, that certain actions just cannot be completely distorted out of context, it would still take someone far beyond our pay grade to make an honest termination about his Papacy, at least in my mind.

Trust me, you will be far happier if you just offer up the whole thing to God, which is really where it belongs anyway. I have, and continue to, learn that God knows what he is doing the hard way. Who am I to second guess HIS holy arrangements?

That is just how I feel. People are free to think what they will of course.
 
Last edited:
This is a wonderful article. Thank you for sharing.

Christ walked the earth before the social constructs of Republican vs. Democrat, “liberal” vs. “conservative.” We are to follow his teaching, as conveyed through the Scriptures and Magisterium, and not obsess over which teachings fall into which political labels.
 
He is only liberal concerning the Death Penalty and Immigration (including refugees), that’s my impression of him. I don’t see him as liberal just because of that, not many fit perfectly into the liberal/conservative category.
 
This Anglican has a question… When Pope Francis was elected five years ago, do you think that his fellow Cardinals knew well of his social(ist) beliefs and activism, as well his strong Jesuit stance on justice for the poor and oppressed?

If they did, they must have believed that the Holy Spirit was calling the Church in this direction. If they did not, well, what does that say about the discernment of the College of Cardinals? Is it political rather than spiritual?

I am asking with all sincerity. If we trust that the Holy Spirit is at work in the election of the Church’s leaders, then we must believe one or the other, don’t you think?
 
“This Anglican” is right. 😊 And has been here long enough to know that the Holy Spirit knows…
Thank you.

PS: he isn t a socialist. He is a son of the Church
 
Last edited:
The short version is that Jesuits believe and live the idea that you have to meet people where they are, then take their hand to lead them to where you are going.

So, if you are talking to an atheist you are going to use language an atheist understands. Same goes for any group whether socialist, secularist, materialist, it doesn’t matter.

So, in employing this strategy, a Jesuit might start off sounding kind of heterodox, but you have to watch for the pivot back to orthodoxy.

Pope Francis is not a heretic. He is orthodox or “a son of the Church” as he phrases it. He may start off talking about liberation theology (for example) but watch for the pivot back to orthodoxy. It is always there. He is playing offense. He is trying to win lost souls back to the church. Everything about this man tells you this is true even down to his Good Shepard pectoral cross. What does the good Shepard do? He leaves the 99 to go after the 1. Pope Francis is softening long hardened hearts and sewing seeds that will bear much fruit.

Here is the long version:

 
Last edited:
I do wish Catholics would stop using the adjective “liberal” to label other Catholics .
Click to expand...
“Liberal” belongs to politics . Let it stay there
Click to expand...
“Liberal” also belongs to religion. It has been condemned as a heresy for its rejection of Catholic teaching regarding the State’s moral duty to religion and the Church.

“many there are who follow in the footsteps of Lucifer… Such, for instance, are the men…who, usurping the name of liberty, style themselves liberals.” -Pope Leo the Thirteenth, Libertas Praestantissimum 14.

Let’s all work to speak out in a manner more in keeping with the manner of Leo the Thirteenth. Liberals do not truly support liberty; they support evil.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
When Pope Francis was elected five years ago, do you think that his fellow Cardinals knew well of his social(ist) beliefs and activism, as well his strong Jesuit stance on justice for the poor and oppressed?
Click to expand...
I don’t believe the Cardinals knew. I remember reading a news item that one of the Cardinals who helped secure Pope Francis’s election during the conclave had a serious row with the Pope over some of his comments. This is hearsay evidence and is definitely debatable but I think it’s likely. The book ‘The Dictator Pope’ also leads me to believe that the Cardinals did not envision some of Pope Francis’s actions. However, Francis is our Pope and we have to accept that God is allowing him to guide the Church. Perhaps Francis is an instrument of divine providence.
 
Last edited:
ComplineSanFran said:
This Anglican has a question… When Pope Francis was elected five years ago, do you think that his fellow Cardinals knew well of his social(ist) beliefs and activism, as well his strong Jesuit stance on justice for the poor and oppressed?
Click to expand...
They knew, and were supportive, of his support for justice for the poor and oppressed. St. JP II was equally supportive of the poor and oppressed. They probably expected Francis to be also supportive of forgotten truths currently suppressed by the centralized educational and media systems, as St. JP II was. Pope Francis has not been able to do that yet. Most of the truths Francis proclaims are the truths currently familiar. There is nothing wrong with that, but nothing prophetic about it either.

If CNN does a piece on the need to take action on Climate Change - which I agree with - the Vatican will do a copy-and-paste thing, with some religious phrases added. I am not disagreeing with the content, just pointing out the copy-and-paste mentality. St. JP II actually brought new (or long neglected, still valid) ideas to the Public Square, that CNN or FOX News would never have thought of.

Compared to St. JP II, Francis is not more liberal, but more passive. I don’t disagree with anything he is doing, just pointing out his 2 predecessors did the same good things he does, and other good things, too.
 
Last edited:
I wish we would quit trying to stuff the Pope or the Church into a box labeled with a political term. The Church, and the Pope, are neither liberal or conservative. I trust the Pope and the Magisterium to be above such pettiness.
 
dmar198 said:
I do wish Catholics would stop using the adjective “liberal” to label other Catholics .
Click to expand...
I would like to see the full version of this encyclical so that I can put the words you quote into the context of the whole .

“Pope Francis’ ideas, like those of his predecessors John Paul II and Benedict XVI, transcend the political labels of secular ideology—his understanding of politics as a moral enterprise rises above the conservative-liberal debate that animates American public policy.”
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Rob2 said:
So If what you say is correct , and it isn’t , I trust that you have flagged the OP for implying by the title of this thread that Pope Francis is liberal .
Click to expand...
I am curious on what you believe was incorrect about what I stated. Why would I flag someone for implying that the Pope is liberal?
 
I think Pope Francis is good for now; he, like maybe John 23rd, is helping more people come back to the church without embarrassment. “Is my sin too great”; “How does my abortion get forgiven?”, etc. Perhaps more people feel less afraid to return to the church.
 
I wouldn’t have gone with that comparison. Though certainly I neither state nor imply that Pope St John XXIII was a cause of the great Catholic exodus of the 1960s, the fact remains that far from people coming ‘back’ to the church due to the supposed ‘welcome’, ‘fresh air’, and ‘new springtime’, people left the church. In droves. And many NOT because ‘their sins were too great to be forgiven’ (surely you aren’t implying that prior to Vatican 2 the Church emphasis was all on Jansenist ‘badness’ and thus driving OUT the poor people who were so sin-conscious, as that was not the case). . .but rather, and again not faulting the Pope or the Church, because along with various other (many) factors including assimilation with ‘regular’ people (i.e. white Protestants), the ‘sexual revolution’, economics, societal ‘loosening’ and the rampant rise of ‘casual everything’, church services and other Catholic practices were seen as ‘non-essential’. Sure, call yourself (generic you) Catholic, take what you like, and leave the rest and bleat, "my conscience’, and you can have it all, why worry about sin, "None of us really HAS ‘full’ knowledge or consent, and ‘grave matter’ doesn’t matter at ALL in our relativistic smugness.’

So, no, peace to Pope St JXXIII but The Church needs (and I’m not saying Pope Francis doesn’t supply it) somebody who will not simply meet, greet, say something sweet, and just hope and pray that ‘nice’ will lead to ‘accept’, but somebody who is willing, like Jesus, to accept (all the time with great faith, hope, and above all true Love) being disliked, reviled, scorned, and even sacrificed, by his own, for THE TRUTH. Because the Truth WILL set people free. It’s being misled by false truth, half-truth, ‘relative truth’, and a false idea that ‘love means never having to say, “Sin no more”’ that has led to the terrible situation today, and only a radical love that is willing to demonstrate loving to the full even when totally misunderstood, and loving ANYWAY, can be enough to let the blind see again and the deaf hear again.
 
margaret42 said:
I think Pope Francis is good for now; he, like maybe John 23rd, is helping more people come back to the church without embarrassment. “Is my sin too great”; “How does my abortion get forgiven?”, etc. Perhaps more people feel less afraid to return to the church.
Click to expand...
I agree.

However, the numbers have not panned out yet. Perhaps he’s planting seeds, but so far there has not been a significant return to the Church.

Some people might be less hostile, but they are not sitting in the pews each Sunday. Let’s pray that he does have a long term, positive affect.

God bless
 
I would agree with you here - if anything the numbers show that people are leaving at a greater rate than before Pope Francis (not saying he is responsible for that, but rather that he isn’t stemming the tide either). I think the comments that Pope Francis makes, and also the comments that he doesn’t make (e.g., not saying anything about the Ireland abortion referendum) please people who disagree with the Church on this or that, but do little else than get the Church some temporary “good P.R.” with the mainstream media. I have since come to accept that the Church is only going to get smaller and smaller, at least in the western world, and I think at some point, even if it is decades from now, the Vatican will have to come to terms with that as well. Maybe there is nothing that can realistically be done to bring people back in great numbers.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top