Is Pope Francis right on climate change?

[ferdgoodfellow]

Dear GentleFolk,

I would like to put the emphasis on whether the Holy Father’s belief in dangerous man-made global warming is justified. He quite explicitly allies himself with the climate science establishment led the UN’s IPCC. But is his trust in them warranted? As someone who has studied how the carbon dioxide theory of climate change came to be the dominant paradigm, I believe the Pontiff’s trust in the IPCC is misplaced.

 

[7_Sorrows]

We have no choice. Climate change is impacting us all and it if first affecting the most vulnerable in our world, the poor. So the sooner we do something about it the better.

How is climate change affecting the poor more than others?

 

[adawgj]

At this point I agree with the Pope and the huge majority of scientists that agree that climate change is real and man and can have an impact on it.

 

[Beryllos]

How is climate change affecting the poor more than others?

Quoting from the US EPA, Climate Impacts on Global Issues:

Impacts on Africa

• Africa is one of the most vulnerable continents to climate variability and change because of multiple existing stresses and low adaptive capacity. Existing stresses include poverty, political conflicts, and ecosystem degradation.
• By 2050, between 350 million and 600 million people are projected to experience increased water stress due to climate change.
• Climate variability and change is projected to severely compromise agricultural production, including access to food, in many African countries and regions.

and

Impacts on Asia

• Climate change is projected to decrease freshwater availability in central, south, east and southeast Asia, particularly in large river basins. With population growth and increasing demand from higher standards of living, this decrease could adversely affect more than a billion people by the 2050s.
• Increased flooding from the sea and, in some cases, from rivers, threatens coastal areas, especially heavily populated delta regions in south, east, and southeast Asia.
• By the mid-21st century, crop yields could increase up to 20% in east and southeast Asia. In the same period, yields could decrease up to 30% in central and south Asia.
• Sickness and death due to diarrheal disease are projected to increase in east, south, and southeast Asia due to projected changes in the hydrological cycle associated with climate change.

An article in The Economist - A bad climate for development - adds this about Africa (and other places):

Global warming …] also increases the chances of catching the life-threatening diseases that are more prevalent in poorer countries. In many places cities have been built just above a so-called “malaria line”, above which malaria-bearing mosquitoes cannot survive (Nairobi is one example). Warmer weather allows the bugs to move into previously unaffected altitudes, spreading a disease that is already the biggest killer in Africa. By 2030 climate change may expose 90m more people to malaria in Africa alone. Similarly, meningitis outbreaks in Africa are strongly correlated with drought. Both are likely to increase. Diarrhoea is forecast to rise 5% by 2020 in poor countries because of climate change. Dengue fever has been expanding its range: its incidence doubled in parts of the Americas between 1995-97 and 2005-07. On one estimate, 60% of the world’s population will be exposed to the disease by 2070.

 

[ferdgoodfellow]

At this point I agree with the Pope and the huge majority of scientists that agree that climate change is real and man and can have an impact on it.

That “climate change is real” is not disputed. No one on the skeptical side believes that climate is static. Nor is there any real dispute whether mankind’s activities affect the climate. The issues are 1) whether human CO2 emissions are causing dangerous global warming, and 2) whether we should adopt policies to drastically cut our CO2 emissions by means X, Y and Z.

I think the scientific consensus on No. 1 (the global warming hypothesis) is vastly overstated by the cheerleaders for the global warming movement and by the climate science establishment. That the Holy Father is naive in trusting the so-called consensus can be demonstrated by even a cursory examination of the history of climate science.

 

[kozlosap]

Yes.

You can make book that Papa Francis did research before starting to write his encyclical. I fail to understand how, when well over 90% of published scientists agree that Global Warming is not some made up idea just to bug anti-intellectuals and those who worship political ideology. Super Storm Sandy was the tip of what is coming.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Quoting from the US EPA, Climate Impacts on Global Issues:

and

An article in The Economist - A bad climate for development - adds this about Africa (and other places):

Aren’t we all subject to climate? It might diffee the further north or south you are located on the globe or how close you are to the equator. We never know year to year how many hurricanes, floods, tornados, cyclones, droughts will happen just like we do not know year to year how many earthquakes, tsunamis will occur or where they will occur.
Parts of Africa and Asia have always had extreme climates.

 

[Beryllos]

Aren’t we all subject to climate?

Yes, but those who have more wealth, better education, more options for employment, better infrastructure, rule of law, etc., have a greater capacity to adapt to climate change. If the crops in California fail due to drought, you and I can get farm produce from another state (or country), and we can pay a little extra for it. If we had to, we could move to another climate and get a new job. It might not be easy, but we could do it. A poor person in Sudan or Bangladesh doesn’t have such a rich set of options.

 

[utah_rose]

Most definitely…! The time was yesterday, barring that we must start today!

Yup! Tell that to the people in the northeast that had record snowfalls last winter and the winter before! Not global warming, but climate change that’s been going on forever. Fossils found in Antartica show it was once a tropical area like Florida, and no chance that man caused it.

I believe Pope Francis in faith and morals but believe he should stick to that and let the scientist debate global warming. I would imagine the poor people would rate food, drinkable water more important and getting rid of corruptible officials and their government that’s causing most of this along with tribal wars and genocide.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Yes, but those who have more wealth, better education, more options for employment, better infrastructure, rule of law, etc., have a greater capacity to adapt to climate change. If the crops in California fail due to drought, you and I can get farm produce from another state (or country), and we can pay a little extra for it. If we had to, we could move to another climate and get a new job. It might not be easy, but we could do it. A poor person in Sudan or Bangladesh doesn’t have such a rich set of options.

so they are more concerned about climate control than climate change.

 

[estesbob]

No. But I agree with him we have a responsibility to care for the enviroment

 

[Karen107]

Yup! Tell that to the people in the northeast that had record snowfalls last winter and the winter before! Not global warming, but climate change that’s been going on forever. Fossils found in Antartica show it was once a tropical area like Florida, and no chance that man caused it.

.

I do live in the north and am used to subzero temperatures but snow falls usually between 20 and 32 degree F. So the fact that there is more snow than before isn’t indicative of a colder year, it’s indicative of a warmer year. And the fact that there is more snow is indicative that there is more moisture in the air, like in the summers when we have violent tornadoes which we have. That’s the increased gulfstream moisture coming up and hitting the cold northwinds. Why? because the oceans are getting warmer and the storms are getting more violent. But on the edges of our continent like California and the Southeast, they’re experiencing record drought. And the 'pre-glacier period" animal fossils are being found in Antarctica because former glacier lakes have disappeared and uncovered the fossils, also because of global warming.

 

[Karen107]

I believe Pope Francis in faith and morals but believe he should stick to that and let the scientist debate global warming. I would imagine the poor people would rate food, drinkable water more important and getting rid of corruptible officials and their government that’s causing most of this along with tribal wars and genocide.

Having drinkable water and available food is tied into global warming and the reason why the poor are suffering so. Everyone needs water to survive, and if they don’t have water they will do anything to get it, even falling into the hands of those who will exploit them. It’s easy to say get rid of the corruptable officials, much harder to do it if no one is willing to speak up for the poor and do something about it. Faith without works is dead. Faith is meaningless unless people are willing to go the extra mile and do what needs to be done to help those in need. I stand by my Pope who is speaking out about this.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Having drinkable water and available food is tied into global warming and the reason why the poor are suffering so. Everyone needs water to survive, and if they don’t have water they will do anything to get it, even falling into the hands of those who will exploit them. It’s easy to say get rid of the corruptable officials, much harder to do it if no one is willing to speak up for the poor and do something about it. Faith without works is dead. Faith is meaningless unless people are willing to go the extra mile and do what needs to be done to help those in need. I stand by my Pope who is speaking out about this.

how is global warming related to no drinkable water and availablw food?

 

[Mike_Dye]

I am posting what I wrote on another thread that explains my thoughts on this issue…​

OK so this…I have had an interest in archeology since I found my first arrowhead as a kid. Studying the peopling of the Americas one finds out about the “Clovis People”, once thought to be the first humans to spread across the country approximately 10,000-15,000 years ago. At that time the earth was in an Ice age with a ice sheet covering what is now the northern section of the United States. At that time the Clovis people hunted mega-fauna, animals that for the most part are now extinct. Another thing happened at this time. The earth started to warm and the ice started to recede. The large animals also started to disappear, if this was due to hunting from the new human predators or from the changing climate is still a question.
So my question is this…do you suppose the earths warming was due to all the thousands (perhaps hundred of thousands), of campfires from the Clovis people or due to something else? Seriously, the earths climate has been changing long before humans had any effect.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I am posting what I wrote on another thread that explains my thoughts on this issue…​

OK so this…I have had an interest in archeology since I found my first arrowhead as a kid. Studying the peopling of the Americas one finds out about the “Clovis People”, once thought to be the first humans to spread across the country approximately 10,000-15,000 years ago. At that time the earth was in an Ice age with a ice sheet covering what is now the northern section of the United States. At that time the Clovis people hunted mega-fauna, animals that for the most part are now extinct. Another thing happened at this time. The earth started to warm and the ice started to recede. The large animals also started to disappear, if this was due to hunting from the new human predators or from the changing climate is still a question.
So my question is this…do you suppose the earths warming was due to all the thousands (perhaps hundred of thousands), of campfires from the Clovis people or due to something else? Seriously, the earths climate has been changing long before humans had any effect.

I agree!

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Is Pope Francis right on climate change?

I am afraid not.

Climate changes is not a scientific issue. It is a political issue. I hate to see our Holy Father being drawn into politics. My only explanation is that he is being misinformed by those with a political power agenda.

Since there is not one shred of scientific evidence proving that man has any effect on our global climate…I would have to say (sadly) that the pope is on the wrong path.

 

[ferdgoodfellow]

Having drinkable water and available food is tied into global warming and the reason why the poor are suffering so. Everyone needs water to survive, and if they don’t have water they will do anything to get it, even falling into the hands of those who will exploit them. It’s easy to say get rid of the corruptable officials, much harder to do it if no one is willing to speak up for the poor and do something about it. Faith without works is dead. Faith is meaningless unless people are willing to go the extra mile and do what needs to be done to help those in need. I stand by my Pope who is speaking out about this.

Hi Karen,
The consensus put forth by the climate science establishment is that the worst effects are far off into the future. So there is a respectable point view–most articulately put forth by Bjorn Lomborg–that we should allocate scarce resources to mitigating present problems rather than to prevention of problems that might not materialize. For example, we know that hundreds of millions of people die from starvation and lack of potable water now. Shouldn’t we try and do something about that and certainly save lives now rather than, say, on costly windmills which may not do any good down the road.

ferd

 

[7_Sorrows]

Is Pope Francis right on climate change?

I am afraid not.

Climate changes is not a scientific issue. It is a political issue. I hate to see our Holy Father being drawn into politics. My only explanation is that he is being misinformed by those with a political power agenda.

Since there is not one shred of scientific evidence proving that man has any effect on our global climate…I would have to say (sadly) that the pope is on the wrong path.

Sadly I have to agree. The global warming advocates are very persuasive.

 

[Karen107]

how is global warming related to no drinkable water and availablw food?

Because the rainforests are disappearing and not replenished and places that used to be sustainable areas for animals and humans have now become dry dustbowls with little replenishment of fresh water and lack of vegetation. And what little supplies of water that is available is often toxic from human or animal waste or chemicals. The poor don’t have access to modern filtration systems so they need help and education on how to obtain clean water sent out to them at a reasonable cost or there are heavy impacts on the city or many dead, children being the most vulnerable.