Is Pope Francis right on climate change?

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It sure sounds like you’re speaking of the Pope who is the Vicar of Christ who has spoken out against capitalism and I applaud him for that because he knows, as I do, that greed is a motivator and a problem in our world. Well, I don’t believe the Pope is in support of right or left but in support of Jesus Christ who came to save the world… If that means opposing the far right ideologies on capitalism then so be it. Not sure what you mean on agressive population control. The Pope, and our Church is also a pro-life, which is against a lot of far left ideologies. We as Christians are meant to care for the poor, if that means giving up some of the wealth and changing our ways in order to care for them, that’s what will have to happen. 🤷 Money is something that is meant to be shared because it comes from God and most certainly we can’t take it with us when we go.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with free market capitalism.One is usually monetarily rewarded for diligent study and work. How is that bad? Would we prefer socialism or communism where there are no choices of employment?

In USA, in our fair market system at least one third or our earned wages go to the government to programs allocated by them. That is an awful lot of money out of a check and it does not even include property taxes.

I also work in a factory that is air conditioned. Am I going to apologize for that or tell my employer I would rather work in a sweltering environment. I imagine it costs a pretty penny to keep us cool but it is conducive to productivity in the long run.

I really respect Pope Francis and realize he has good ideas and good intentions but he has never been poor.I have been, and lifted myself out of the situation through hard work and perseverance.

I still believe AGW is a myth and the variations we are experiencing are probably celestial in nature or part of normal cycles. Then again it could be what quite a few prophets predicted as the antichrist comes to power.
 
There is absolutely nothing wrong with free market capitalism.One is usually monetarily rewarded for diligent study and work. How is that bad? Would we prefer socialism or communism where there are no choices of employment?

In USA, in our fair market system at least one third or our earned wages go to the government to programs allocated by them. That is an awful lot of money out of a check and it does not even include property taxes.

I also work in a factory that is air conditioned. Am I going to apologize for that or tell my employer I would rather work in a sweltering environment. I imagine it costs a pretty penny to keep us cool but it is conducive to productivity in the long run.

I really respect Pope Francis and realize he has good ideas and good intentions but he has never been poor.I have been, and lifted myself out of the situation through hard work and perseverance.

I still believe AGW is a myth and the variations we are experiencing are probably celestial in nature or part of normal cycles. Then again it could be what quite a few profits predicted as the antichrist comes to power.
The problem with capitalism is that it promotes Greed which is why the government has to step in… not all factories are air conditioned you’re the lucky one. Count your blessings and don’t take them for granted.
 
I still believe AGW is a myth and the variations we are experiencing are probably celestial in nature or part of normal cycles. Then again it could be what quite a few prophets predicted as the antichrist comes to power.
The spirit of the antichrist is already in power in our world which is why we are seeing the increasing disparity between the haves and the have nots. People have forgotten what Jesus teaches us about wealth, it will never get us to heaven. It’ll load us down with so much baggage it’ll be easier for a camel going through the eye of a needle.
 
You keep bringing up this because some scientists believed his data wasn’t entirely right on but not that global warming wasn’t happening. We are experiencing global warming confirmed by many many scientists. The entire scientific discussion has been politicized to support people who are denying climate change.
I’ll refer to Lynns because she explains it better from a scientific aspect. I’ve said my thoughts on it up above. One controversy doesn’t undermine all of science.
I keep bringing it because this was real scandal and a blight on the climate science establishment’s reputation for telling the truth. If we can’t trust them in the discipline of paleo, how can we trust them on anything else?

And this is just one scandal. What about the Wang study? Wang grossly misrepresented his data. Arguably there was real fraud here. What happened? Nothing. Phil Jones, of climategate infamy, continued to cite Wang’s work even after he knew of the problems with it.
 
The problem with capitalism is that it promotes Greed which is why the government has to step in… not all factories are air conditioned you’re the lucky one. Count your blessings and don’t take them for granted.
I always am thankful for my blessings and try not to take anything for granted.

What type of government would you prefer. a monarchy?
 
At the roots of nearly all global warming proponents is a dislike of capitalism and support of agressive population control. It’s all political and global warming is just the tool they’re trying to use to push their agenda
I agree.
 
I always am thankful for my blessings and try not to take anything for granted.
Well then take note, many in America do not have air conditioned warehouses to work in despite your testimony in support of capitalism. Many companies just assume let those who complain go. Why? Because they can because they own the company.
What type of government would you prefer. a monarchy?
A fair and honest government. One that doesn’t allow for the exploitation of human life but works to preserve the happiness and health of all human beings, not just the successful ones. One that considers the needs of all and doesn’t take life for granted. One that allows people to be endowed by their creator in order to live more godly lives. Now we have to ‘fight’ to defund abortion providers like PP. What’s wrong with a percentage of a persons income being taxed throughout? Why are there so many tax exemptions and tax loopholes for the rich? If the poor have to pay a dollar for every ten earned why can’t that be the same for the rich? Why can’t we have a more godly nation who cares for the plight of the poor not only in this nation but around the world? There’s so much that could be done that isn’t being done because people are chasing the almighty dollar.
 
They’ve all come true. The warming is very close to what they’ve predicted, and we have more intense hurricanes and storms, greater heat waves, wild fires, floods, droughts, crop failures, disease spread, sea rise, etc.
There is nothing that could better demonstrate the divide between the AGW crowd and its opponents than this. You claim all of these predictions have come true when the evidence supports none of it. There is no possibility of agreement about what might happen if there is not even agreement over what has happened.
And there are several things they had not predicted that are happening from AGW as well – increased and lingering Rossby waves, earthquakes, volcanoes, etc.
To claim that earthquakes and volcanoes are caused by global warming makes believing in alien abduction seem reasonable by comparison. It would seem a person has a better chance of convincing an Islamic fundamentalist of the error of his beliefs than he does of convincing a believer in AGW of the error in his.

Ender
 
I keep bringing it because this was real scandal and a blight on the climate science establishment’s reputation for telling the truth. If we can’t trust them in the discipline of paleo, how can we trust them on anything else?

And this is just one scandal. What about the Wang study? Wang grossly misrepresented his data. Arguably there was real fraud here. What happened? Nothing. Phil Jones, of climategate infamy, continued to cite Wang’s work even after he knew of the problems with it.
Not. there was NO SCANDAL, no misconduct. It was ALL made up by the dev-oil powers that be to try and delude people into thinking there was a scandal and hence the data are all wrong and hence AGW is not happening. These are zombie arguments – roundly disproven, but keep coming back.

And I’m getting sick and tired of people slandering and harassing innocent climate scientists out there doing hard work and lobbing death threats at their small children. It’s like they don’t like the message, so kill the messenger. Eventually the miscreants doing this will have to pay the piper – here on earth or when they are barred from those pearly gates.

And regular people seem willingly to be deceived by those evil, deceitful lies maybe bec they want to believe, bec they do NOT want to get up off they bottoms and turn off lights not in use and the many other things Pope Francis is calling us to do.

Or maybe they are ideologues who cannot accept that we have run up against some earth systems limits and need to retrace our steps a bit. They refuse to share earth’s wealth and resources with others, claiming there is an infinite amount and if the poor don’t have a bigger share in it is bec they are lazy and no good, etc.

I’m really not to sure why regular folks would allow themselves to be so easily deceived. But I do know why the deceivers are doing it – for money and profits.

If I were you, I’d not be a part of this bogus and deceitful slander-machine. It’s not good for your spiritual health and it feeds into harming and killing people thru environmental harms.
 
There is nothing that could better demonstrate the divide between the AGW crowd and its opponents than this. You claim all of these predictions have come true when the evidence supports none of it. There is no possibility of agreement about what might happen if there is not even agreement over what has happened.
To claim that earthquakes and volcanoes are caused by global warming makes believing in alien abduction seem reasonable by comparison. It would seem a person has a better chance of convincing an Islamic fundamentalist of the error of his beliefs than he does of convincing a believer in AGW of the error in his.

Ender
Now lets talk science and physics of this phenomenon…

Disagrees… earthquakes and volcanoes are caused by disturbances in the earths surface including shifts in the titonic plates caused by increased weight and pressure due to rising and warming oceans. Here’s a couple of articles that discusses it. It should be really simple for anyone to understand. If you change the pressure on the earths surface you wake the sleeping giant and a result is an increase of volcanoes, earthquakes and tsunamis.

motherjones.com/environment/2012/02/climate-change-linked-to-volcano-eruptions-earthquakes

newsweek.com/nepal-earthquake-could-have-been-manmade-disaster-climate-change-brings-326017.html

rtcc.org/2015/04/29/nepal-earthquake-shows-lessons-for-climate-disasters/

On a smaller scale we have seen that there are an increased amount of earthquakes in areas where there is fracking making the ground more unstable due to man made causes. And we haven’t even discussed the problem of sinkholes appearing due to lack of rain and underground water in drought stricken areas which compromises the integrity of land.

latimes.com/visuals/graphics/la-me-quake-frack-20150423-htmlstory.html

So goes to reason that the increased weight of the larger oceans would also make for more earthquakes, volcano and disruptive seismic activity on a larger scale as they are seeing in the eastern part of our world.
 
Well then take note, many in America do not have air conditioned warehouses to work in despite your testimony in support of capitalism. Many companies just assume let those who complain go. Why? Because they can because they own the company.

A fair and honest government. One that doesn’t allow for the exploitation of human life but works to preserve the happiness and health of all human beings, not just the successful ones. One that considers the needs of all and doesn’t take life for granted. One that allows people to be endowed by their creator in order to live more godly lives. Now we have to ‘fight’ to defund abortion providers like PP. What’s wrong with a percentage of a persons income being taxed throughout? Why are there so many tax exemptions and tax loopholes for the rich? If the poor have to pay a dollar for every ten earned why can’t that be the same for the rich? Why can’t we have a more godly nation who cares for the plight of the poor not only in this nation but around the world? There’s so much that could be done that isn’t being done because people are chasing the almighty dollar.
So what type of government do you propose?

What is the plight of the poor actually? Is it lack of education,food ,water,or employment? How does anyone propose you lift the poor out of their situation,more government programs and control?

I believe a certain young man(not yet an adult) organized a group to drill wells for fresh water in one underdeveloped country. He did not even have to condemn capitalism, but worked within the system to see his idea come to fruition.

There will always be the wealthy because those are the ones who usually see a need or want in society and fill it. They profit and invest. Some are unscrupulous and others are not.One cannot just say capitalism is evil or wrong.
 
Not. there was NO SCANDAL, no misconduct. It was ALL made up by the dev-oil powers that be to try and delude people into thinking there was a scandal and hence the data are all wrong and hence AGW is not happening. These are zombie arguments – roundly disproven, but keep coming back.

And I’m getting sick and tired of people slandering and harassing innocent climate scientists out there doing hard work and lobbing death threats at their small children. It’s like they don’t like the message, so kill the messenger. Eventually the miscreants doing this will have to pay the piper – here on earth or when they are barred from those pearly gates.

And regular people seem willingly to be deceived by those evil, deceitful lies maybe bec they want to believe, bec they do NOT want to get up off they bottoms and turn off lights not in use and the many other things Pope Francis is calling us to do.

Or maybe they are ideologues who cannot accept that we have run up against some earth systems limits and need to retrace our steps a bit. They refuse to share earth’s wealth and resources with others, claiming there is an infinite amount and if the poor don’t have a bigger share in it is bec they are lazy and no good, etc.

I’m really not to sure why regular folks would allow themselves to be so easily deceived. But I do know why the deceivers are doing it – for money and profits.

If I were you, I’d not be a part of this bogus and deceitful slander-machine. It’s not good for your spiritual health and it feeds into harming and killing people thru environmental harms.
Hi Lynn,

'Snot slander when you speak da truth. 'Snot a zombie argument to keep repeating relevant facts.

Fact: Mann’s paper stated that he used 112 proxy series, but he later revealed that it was actually 159.

Fact: His paper reported that he used standard principal components analysis, but he later revealed that he employed a non-standard variation and also a technique called a step-wise procedure.

Reasonable Conclusion: Mann materially misrepresented his research. You will probably say, “No big deal.” Well it is if you are trying replicate the study or evaluate his methods.

Fact: Mann was slow to release his data. When McIntyre first approached Mann about access to his data, Mann informed McIntyre that he couldn’t remember the location of the online archive and that he would have a colleague, Scott Rutherford, locate it. Rutherford then informed McIntyre that it would take a while to assemble all the data. Several weeks later Rutherford directed McIntyre to an anonymous FTP site which provided McIntyre with the data for his initial analysis. There were numerous problems with this data (gaps, mislabeling, poor sourcing, obsolete, etc.). After McIntyre’s first paper was published, Mann then accused McIntyre and his co-author, Ross McKitrick, of using the wrong data. He then revealed the existence of another FTP site, undisclosed up to that point, which contained the actual data. On numerous occasions McIntyre would request additional data or explanations, and the email record of their correspondence shows that Mann was not responsive and eventually cut off all communication. Despite repeated requests, Mann refused to give McIntyre his “residuals” from verification tests.

Fact: In addition to misrepresenting his methods, he refused to release his computer code for his statistical analysis until finally compelled to do so by a congressional subpoena. He also completely failed to release other critical details about how he constructed his graph. To this day some aspects of his methods are a still a mystery.

Reasonable Conclusion: Mann stonewalled and tried to prevent a fair audit of his study. Incidentally, this was standard operating procedure through the paleo community.
 
Fact: In his paper Mann failed to disclose that his reconstruction failed a standard verification test. In an interview with a journalist, he falsely claimed it passed the test. But then in congressional testimony he denied ever conducting the test!
 
There is nothing that could better demonstrate the divide between the AGW crowd and its opponents than this. You claim all of these predictions have come true when the evidence supports none of it.
That’s simply bec you closed your mind to even the possibility of AGW from the get-go that you have not been keeping up with the 1000s of studies regarding its impacts.

There is no way to get a CC skeptics to accept the research of these 1000s of “CC impact” scientists if they don’t accept AGW is happening in the first place or that the global average temp has risen during the past 50 years.
To claim that earthquakes and volcanoes are caused by global warming makes believing in alien abduction seem reasonable by comparison. It would seem a person has a better chance of convincing an Islamic fundamentalist of the error of his beliefs than he does of convincing a believer in AGW of the error in his.
Well, I didn’t believe earthquakes and volcanoes could be caused by AGW either for the longest time, and even have them on my tests as wrong answers to “Which is an impact of climate change?” – then after the test I share some cutting edge studies that indicate these actually have been found to impacted by CC, triggered by glacier melt (which causes a rebound effect) in some areas and “the ebb and flow of rainwater in the great river deltas of India and Bangladesh, and the pressure that puts on the grinding plates that make up the surface of the planet.”

When I first heard about AGW and earthquakes some years back I thought only minor ones in unpopulated arctic areas where glaciers are melting, then I just came across this article this past week, which indicates it could be much more serious for human life and well-being: “More Fatal Earthquakes to Come, Geologists Warn” re the Nepal earthquake at newsweek.com/nepal-earthquake-could-have-been-manmade-disaster-climate-change-brings-326017.html

As for volcanoes I read this last Jan: “How Climate Change Leads to Volcanoes (Really)” at time.com/3687893/volcanoes-climate-change/
then looked up the study here: “Climate-driven vertical acceleration of Icelandic crust measured by continuous GPS geodesy” at onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2014GL062446/abstract

Here’s something for further reading (if anyone gives a hoot): Bill McGuire’s (professor emeritus of Geophysical and Climate Hazards at University College London), Waking the Giant: How a Changing Climate Triggers Earthquakes, Tsunamis and Volcanoes

Now admittedly these are cutting edge studies, meaning the science behind them is not “robust” the way the science behind AGW in general is and its other well known and accepted impacts. One or two studies does not science make. However, it is something we can keep our eyes on as more studies come in…for those who give a hoot about life on planet earth.
 
Fact: In his paper Mann failed to disclose that his reconstruction failed a standard verification test. In an interview with a journalist, he falsely claimed it passed the test. But then in congressional testimony he denied ever conducting the test!
I correspond with Mann and he is a decent and honest person and has done NO WRONG. These are all manufactured lies and deceits.

The sin here is the slander against him and the death threats against his daughter. And I believe everyone who continues in these zombie lies and slander against Mann is party to blame for those death threats, even if they didn’t themselves actually lob them.

So just stop it right now!
 
Mann then accused McIntyre and his co-author, Ross McKitrick, of using the wrong data…
McIntyre* is a fossil fuel industry exec and McKitrick** is an economics prof; they are NOT climate scientists. They didn’t even know they were supposed to use the Kelvin scale instead of the Celsius scale in their statistical analyses.

Sheesh, next y’all be going to barbers for your brain surgery.

Stop smelling up the place with dead red herrings. As I stated very clearly before even without Mann’s work, the science behind AGW is very robust and cannot be toppled by the likes of such wannabe climate scientists with a nefarious agenda.

*PPE (Philosophy, Politics and Economics), Oxford University, (1971); B.Sc., Mathematics, University of Toronto (1969)

**M.A., Ph.D. Economics, University of British Columbia, (1990, 1996); B.A., Economics, Queen’s University, (1988).
 
There is nothing that could better demonstrate the divide between the AGW crowd and its opponents than this. You claim all of these predictions have come true when the evidence supports none of it. There is no possibility of agreement about what might happen if there is not even agreement over what has happened.
To claim that earthquakes and volcanoes are caused by global warming makes believing in alien abduction seem reasonable by comparison. It would seem a person has a better chance of convincing an Islamic fundamentalist of the error of his beliefs than he does of convincing a believer in AGW of the error in his.

Ender
Philosopher George Santayana defines fanaticism as “redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim.”

It is difficult to reason with such people.
 
Philosopher George Santayana defines fanaticism as “redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim.”

It is difficult to reason with such people.
Look, here’s the way I and the US Bishops look at it by using prudence and mitigating even if we are not completely sure AGW is happening.

If I am wrong, then no harm has been done at all, bec nearly all the measures to mitigate AGW have mitigated other problems AND have saved me money. It could also be a real boon to the economy to become more resource/energy efficient/conservative and go on renewable energy to the extent that is feasible (which should be more than 50% of our energy, once we reduce by becoming more efficient/conservative).

If I am right, then those who are dragging their heels on this are ushering in terrible harms upon people well into the future.

Take your pick!
 
I correspond with Mann and he is a decent and honest person and has done NO WRONG. These are all manufactured lies and deceits.

The sin here is the slander against him and the death threats against his daughter. And I believe everyone who continues in these zombie lies and slander against Mann is party to blame for those death threats, even if they didn’t themselves actually lob them.

So just stop it right now!
He may be what you consider as a “good person” but the facts clearly show hes is a very poor scientist, more interested in sensation than science. The response to his latest paper drives this point home. He missed a career in Public Relations or Advertising.

The theory on increased volcanic activity from glacier melt has a lag of hundreds to thousands of years after the glacier melt. Thus it won’t be validated for at least 1,500 years.
 
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