Is porn that bad for our society

[tlimon]

Heh. You’re a mischievous sort I can tell. The two part quandary is a truism and part two is a redundancy of part one. But, then again, I’m pretty sure you knew that from the get go. We’ll get along well.

Best Regards

 

[John21652]

For question #1 you’re denying God’s omnipotence!

God is ultimately good, and God has divine providence over the whole Earth. As St. Paul writes: “in everything God works for good” (Rom 8:28).

Oh, you are so obvious. You have just been waiting and waiting to say that, haven’t you Robert?

Now go back to post #149 and solve that little problem, if you are able.
In light of what I pointed out in post #149, your retort is foolish.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Oh, you are so obvious. You have just been waiting and waiting to say that, haven’t you Robert?

Now go back to post #149 and solve that little problem, if you are able.
In light of what I pointed out in post #149, your retort is foolish.

God is ultimately omnipotent! The fact that porn comes about from the free will of man is of no consequence. God brings about an ultimate, greater good from any evil Satan has to offer, including that temptation of our free will that leads to the use of porn and nude dancing!

 

[valentino]

1. Can God bring about an ultimate, greater good from EVERY evil Satan has to offer? Please answer this question directly with a yes or no response!
2. If this is true, can God bring a greater good from porn, like it acting as a raw sewage pipe for hyper-sexualized behavior at the societal level? Again, please be direct with a yes or no response!

Yes he can but to get to that ultimate good society may have to pay a terrible price.If it knew the price it would not to say let do evil because in the end we will be better off.If society said everything was better after WW2 ,there was a great growth in prosperity and Japan became a very productive nation and look at the great increase in modern science would the world or the Jews say well it was worth the 60million deaths because now see how the world has prospered?Can we honestly say what we have today is worth 60million deaths and the terrible destruction of cities and lands?Wonder if your parents were 2 of the 60m?

 

[Robert_Sock]

Yes he can but to get to that ultimate good society may have to pay a terrible price.If it knew the price it would not to say let do evil because in the end we will be better off.If society said everything was better after WW2 ,there was a great growth in prosperity and Japan became a very productive nation and look at the great increase in modern science would the world or the Jews say well it was worth the 60million deaths because now see how the world has prospered?Can we honestly say what we have today is worth 60million deaths and the terrible destruction of cities and lands?Wonder if your parents were 2 of the 60m?

We simply do not know all the good that came from WW II. It is most assuredly that God’s plan goes far deeper than what we can see today. For example, could be that most of those who died went to Heaven and are now in full communion with God. We often need to think beyond this miserable and corrupt world in seeking to understand God’s plan for us.

 

[valentino]

We simply do not know all the good that came from WW II. It is most assuredly that God’s plan goes far deeper than what we can see today. For example, could be that most of those who died went to Heaven and are now in full communion with God. We often need to think beyond this miserable and corrupt world in seeking to understand God’s plan for us.

thanks for responding.I agree with you.All I was saying is that many may say we are better off today because of the terrible WW2 that took place.I say maybe that’s true but what about all the relatives that survived?If your parents died would you say well Im glad the war happened because look at our world today.How much progress we have made.There is going to be a terrible price to pay for our society accepting porn,abortion,gay right,and all the rest.Does America really want to pay the price?Why donn’t we just obey God,get rid of the sin in this society and let God work?We will still prosper just as much over time but in God’s good time.

 

[Robert_Sock]

thanks for responding.I agree with you.All I was saying is that many may say we are better off today because of the terrible WW2 that took place.I say maybe that’s true but what about all the relatives that survived?If your parents died would you say well Im glad the war happened because look at our world today.How much progress we have made.There is going to be a terrible price to pay for our society accepting porn,abortion,gay right,and all the rest.Does America really want to pay the price?Why donn’t we just obey God,get rid of the sin in this society and let God work?We will still prosper just as much over time but in God’s good time.

Imagine getting rid of all porn and having no way of disposing of male hyper-sexuality. Similar were the arguments of Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas Aquinas in respect to prostitution as a necessary evil (see post 110). Today we have largely eliminated prostitution by making available porn. Take away porn and problems with rape, prostitution, and STD will probably prevail.

 

[John21652]

God is ultimately omnipotent! The fact that porn comes about from the free will of man is of no consequence. God brings about an ultimate, greater good from any evil Satan has to offer, including that temptation of our free will that leads to the use of porn and nude dancing!

Oh you are so misinterpeting the meaning of God’s omnipotence!

To say that porn comeing from the free will of man is of no consequence is totally fallacious. It is the misuse of free will that is the crux of the problem! The misuse of free will is what causes man to sin. Sin seperates man from God. How does God bring about a greater good from the misuse of free will? Does He intervene? NO, He does not. He invites man to make recompense and the first step is Reconciliation, through which man can recieve forgiveness for his transgressions and be put back into a state of grace. Reconciliation is another exercise of man’s free will.

Read 2 Peter 3:9 which tells us that *“The Lord delays not his promise, as some imagine, but deals patiently for your sake, not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to penance.” *

As for God’s omnipotence, God cannot transgress His own nature. For Him to do so would mean He is not a true and faithfull God and I’m even sure you would accept that. If God were to impose His will onto the free will of man, He would be acting in a contradictory manner and God cannot contradict Himself without acting contrarily to His nature, which is all Good.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Oh you are so misinterpeting the meaning of God’s omnipotence!

To say that porn comeing from the free will of man is of no consequence is totally fallacious. It is the misuse of free will that is the crux of the problem! The misuse of free will is what causes man to sin. Sin seperates man from God. How does God bring about a greater good from the misuse of free will? Does He intervene? NO, He does not. He invites man to make recompense and the first step is Reconciliation, through which man can recieve forgiveness for his transgressions and be put back into a state of grace. Reconciliation is another exercise of man’s free will.

Read 2 Peter 3:9 which tells us that *“The Lord delays not his promise, as some imagine, but deals patiently for your sake, not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to penance.” *

As for God’s omnipotence, God cannot transgress His own nature. For Him to do so would mean He is not a true and faithfull God and I’m even sure you would accept that. If God were to impose His will onto the free will of man, He would be acting in a contradictory manner and God cannot contradict Himself without acting contrarily to His nature, which is all Good.

It sounds like we are in disagreement, and so it might be worthwhile to better understand each others view.

If I hear you correctly, porn is based on the freewill of individuals and God will not interfere with it. Central to your belief, God is not truly omnipotent in that He will not bring any good from porn because it’s a misuse of free will.

My view is that God is indeed omnipotent and will certainly bring about a greater good from porn, regardless of our free will. My view is that God has dominion over the whole Earth, and as St. Paul writes: “in everything God works for good” (Rom 8:28).

 

[Mamanurse]

My view is that porn has positive effects on our society. The greatest evil are those who use porn, and not the porn itself.

In an ideal society, I would say that there would be no porn because people did not want to view it.

When choosing between two evils, always choose the lessor evil: I think porn is serving an important function in our evil society today, as evil as it is.

The only function that porn serves is to lessen the beauty of our sexuality. Period. It causes people to become selfish and eliminates the connection that one gets through a healthy relationship.

I don’t get how having porn in our society is choosing the lesser evil…the lesser evil would be no porn and all people having respect for other peoples bodies. Maybe the men and women who are apart of these industries would find some self respect and dignity themselves if there was no such thing.

 

[Robert_Sock]

The only function that porn serves is to lessen the beauty of our sexuality. Period. It causes people to become selfish and eliminates the connection that one gets through a healthy relationship.

I don’t get how having porn in our society is choosing the lesser evil…the lesser evil would be no porn and all people having respect for other peoples bodies. Maybe the men and women who are apart of these industries would find some self respect and dignity themselves if there was no such thing.

see post number 167

 

[valentino]

Imagine getting rid of all porn and having no way of disposing of male hyper-sexuality. Similar were the arguments of Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas Aquinas in respect to prostitution as a necessary evil (see post 110). Today we have largely eliminated prostitution by making available porn. Take away porn and problems with rape, prostitution, and STD will probably prevail.

do you believe if you were born on a desert island with your father and lived there with him till you were 30 you’d be masturbating all the time?

 

[valentino]

Imagine getting rid of all porn and having no way of disposing of male hyper-sexuality. Similar were the arguments of Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas Aquinas in respect to prostitution as a necessary evil (see post 110). Today we have largely eliminated prostitution by making available porn. Take away porn and problems with rape, prostitution, and STD will probably prevail.

I read post#10.That’s someone’s opinion of what they said.Show me where they actually said that.

 

[Robert_Sock]

I read post#10.That’s someone’s opinion of what they said.Show me where they actually said that.

See post number 110 for another quote using Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas Aquinas. However, there are no citations.

 

[vsedriver]

If not, what caused the baby boom here in America?

that’s an easy answer… it was the returning GIs and an overwhelming desire to return home and have a family after the horrors of war.

 

[Robert_Sock]

do you believe if you were born on a desert island with your father and lived there with him till you were 30 you’d be masturbating all the time?

Well, I remember living with my parents with no porn and I began to burn with sexual desire when I was about 13 years old. This continued into my 50s until I began a anti-depressant called Paxil which retards the libido as a side effect. So, yes, I would have to say the same would be true if I lived on a deserted island.

 

[valentino]

See post number 110 for another quote using Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas Aquinas. However, there are no citations.

Im sorry I meant to say #110.So my previous post is still valid.Please give me their actual quotes.I don’t just take people’s interpretations of quotes.So many times in the past people interpretations were incorrect.Until i read what Thomas or Augustine actually said Im nnot going take your word for it.Im not questioning your truthfulness i just believe that maybe you were mislead into believing something that wasn’t true.Also if I had many others agree with you I might be able to be convinced.

 

[valentino]

Well, I remember living with my parents with no porn and I began to burn with sexual desire when I was about 13 years old. This continued into my 50s until I began a anti-depressant called Paxil which retards the libido as a side effect. So, yes, I would have to say the same would be true if I lived on a deserted island.

IMO i don’t believe that most people living on a deserted island as i previously posted would be habitually masturbating.they may on occassion but I believe they would turn their interests to the tasks at hand and take care of themselves and explore.You’re kinda telling me that people have no control over their sexual urges.In reality many people busy themselves with their daily routine of living and don’t have the time to concentrate on sex all the time.I don’t know you’re situation at 13 yrs.but did you spend time on your studies?Did you do your duty in regards to taking care of the house chores?Did you have extra curriculur activies in school?Did you keep busy?Idleness is the devil’s workshop.

 

[John21652]

It sounds like we are in disagreement, and so it might be worthwhile to better understand each others view.

But that can’t happen until you show some intellectual integrity, as I shall demonstrate…

If I hear you correctly, porn is based on the freewill of individuals and God will not interfere with it.

I said God will not interfere with man’s free will and I explained why.

Central to your belief, God is not truly omnipotent in that He will not bring any good from porn because it’s a misuse of free will.

And this is where your intellectual dishonesty shines brightly. You have attempted to subvert what I wrote, which was that God will not interfere with man’s free will because to do so He would have to act in contradiction to His own nature. God gave mankind free will and if he interferes with it, it is no longer free will. You are attempting to show that because God is constrained from interfering with man’s free will, that He does not have the power to do so. Because God is constrained by what he does and says does not mean He is not omnipotent. If God were to interfere with man’s free will, it would mean His original creation of man, complete with free will, was flawed. Unless man is truly free in the use of his will, he cannot be held acountable for his actions.

Read The Book of Wisdom 11:23-27. At 24 it says -

But you have mercy upon all, because you can do all things, and overlook the sins of men for the sake of repentance.

Man can choose to repent, using his God given free will. If he does not repent, he is held to be accountable for how he used his God given free will.

What I have just explained to you is official Catholic doctrine. You deny it and you deny your faith. I suggest you research the Doctrine of Free Will and the Church’s position on the omnipotence of God.

My view is that God is indeed omnipotent and will certainly bring about a greater good from porn, regardless of our free will. My view is that God has dominion over the whole Earth, and as St. Paul writes: “in everything God works for good” (Rom 8:28).

You are here using the protestant technique of Sola Scriptura to contradict the Catholic Church’s position on this matter. You need to either revise your thinking, or admit to not being Catholic.

Porn has no saving graces and is evil per se. It exists because of the misuse of man’s free will.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Im sorry I meant to say #110.So my previous post is still valid.Please give me their actual quotes.I don’t just take people’s interpretations of quotes.So many times in the past people interpretations were incorrect.Until i read what Thomas or Augustine actually said Im nnot going take your word for it.Im not questioning your truthfulness i just believe that maybe you were mislead into believing something that wasn’t true.Also if I had many others agree with you I might be able to be convinced.

I’m sorry. Post number 110 provides a statement of Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas Aquinas. What’s provided in posts 110, 10 and 6 is all that I have. But here are a few more references to on line papers dealing with prostitution and the views of Saint Augustine and/or Saint Thomas Aquinas: (search Google using: “Augustine prostitution Aquinas”)

whatdoesgodthinkaboutprostitution.blogspot.com/

illinoismedieval.org/ems/VOL13/13ch4.html

time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,877272-2,00.html

As to prostitution, then, may we not rely on the good sense of St. Thomas Aquinas? “Prostitution in the towns is like the cesspool in the palace,” he said. “Do away with the cesspool, and the palace will become an unclean and stinking place.”