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Gloria1
Guest
what do you think?.. are we poor because God is punishing us?
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bilop
Guest
NO!
On the contrary, I have actually heard it said that poverty can in fact be a blessing.
The poor know they need God. The rich feel they are self-sufficient, and therefore turn away from God.
If you look at the world over the last 100 years, you will see wealth and materialism are a much greater threat to holiness than poverty and persecuting.
The faith is booming in Africa and Asia, even in China where Christians are cruelly persecuted. In the West, people turn away from God.
God Bless
On the contrary, I have actually heard it said that poverty can in fact be a blessing.
The poor know they need God. The rich feel they are self-sufficient, and therefore turn away from God.
If you look at the world over the last 100 years, you will see wealth and materialism are a much greater threat to holiness than poverty and persecuting.
The faith is booming in Africa and Asia, even in China where Christians are cruelly persecuted. In the West, people turn away from God.
God Bless
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ricmat
Guest
No.
Being rich, or beautiful, or powerful, or famous is usually a curse (or a least a burden to be overcome), not a blessing. All these things turn us away from God rather than towards God. Hollywood stars are usually all of the above things, but how many of them are happy? Brittany Spears?
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kage_ar
Guest
The prosperity “gospel” has twisted us into thinking these kinds of things.
God wants us to live forever in Heaven with Him. God does not promise us a 4 bedroom house, a fat 401K, 2 cars and a family vacation every year. God provides us a way to get to Heaven with Him!!! What more wealth could there be?
God wants us to live forever in Heaven with Him. God does not promise us a 4 bedroom house, a fat 401K, 2 cars and a family vacation every year. God provides us a way to get to Heaven with Him!!! What more wealth could there be?
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LilyM
Guest
Jesus said ‘blessed are the poor in spirit’ - meaning that poverty, whether material or in some other form, can indeed be a blessing.
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Della
Guest
I have to chime in and say a resounding “NO!”
In the world in which we live poverty is caused by so many factors they are too many to count. Some people have no head for business, some have no head for learning, some cannot rise above their environment, and so on and so on.
What we can know is that God does not blame the poor for being poor:
A simple search through the Bible of the word poor shows us God’s tender loving care of the poor.
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manualman
Guest
One cannot assume that someone who is poor is poor because God is punishing him.
On the other hand, God HAS clearly established Natural Law such that if we are lazy / slothful, we will mostly likely go hungry.
In other words, poverty has multiple causes and only ONE of them is potentially the fault of those suffering it.
On the other hand, God HAS clearly established Natural Law such that if we are lazy / slothful, we will mostly likely go hungry.
In other words, poverty has multiple causes and only ONE of them is potentially the fault of those suffering it.
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SoCalRC
Guest
Interestingly, most examples in the bible are the opposite. Those who are not following God’s specified path tend to have ‘rewards’ in this life, but eternal suffering in the next.
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deb1
Guest
I think that you are misunderstanding manual man. He was not talking about the bible but God’s natural laws. He also said that this was a complex issue. At least, that is how I read his post.
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SoCalRC
Guest
I wasn’t attacking his point, I just find it interesting that the examples we are given from God virtually all use the opposite scenario. In fact, by his actions Jesus seemed to be directly challenging the notion that lepers, etc. were somehow responsible for their situation - a common Jewish belief at the time. Instead he frequently seemed to indice that it was society’s haves that need to be seriously concerned about their salvation.I think that you are misunderstanding manual man. He was not talking about the bible but God’s natural laws. He also said that this was a complex issue. At least, that is how I read his post.
Think about it, “Gospel” is from the Greek for Good News, as in ‘Good News for the Poor’. This does not mean that manual man is incorrect, but it does suggest that oppressive poverty might very often be the result of the sins of others. Likewise, there is presumably a reason we are called upon to be “poor in spirit”.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
No, we are poor because we dropped out of school, used drugs and alcohol, had children out of wedlock, have a poor work history, and so on.
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SoCalRC
Guest
I’m not sure that I follow that reasoning. I happen to be in the top 1-2% in terms of household income. This puts me in a pretty small group in terms of total households. But it seems absurd to me to assert that it is a matter of ‘deserving’. There are plenty of people who work harder, and plenty of people who are a lot smarter all making a lot less.
I know there are people who think that way. I live in a state facing a massive deficit and which is cutting important basic services, but the GOP has decided to draw the line - even walking out and shutting down state government to stop the dasterdly Dems and the traitor of a GOP “govenator” from, gasp, closing a loophole that allows me to not pay state sales tax when buying a yacht or plane (FWIW, I did buy a vintage GA plane recently and the broker’s head nearly exploded when I went ahead and paid sales tax). But this seemingly antithesis of Christianity, where camels and eyes of needles don’t apply, doesn’t make much sense to me. The majority of personal bankrupcies in the US were driven by medical bills, something largely beyond one’s control. Now that the credit card companies got their wish from a business-first GOP congress, a lot more people just walk away from their homes instead - which actually might make great sense from a purely selfish market perspective, but still strikes me as a serious social ill.
If you want to believe that I am inherently more important and more valuable to society and should be pampered and continuously rewarded, I can’t stop you. But it seems wrong to me. Much like the “deserving poor” nonsense, it strikes me as Judean Christian values, and even traditional American values, as turned upside down.
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goofyjim
Guest
There are those who are poor due to disabilities. I hope you’re not calling them lazy or slothful.
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goofyjim
Guest
An ignorant statement. I am poor due to a disability not drugs, alcohol or any other of the reasons listed above.
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LDNCatholic
Guest
No. We are all equally guilty of terrible sins. If it were a punishment then the West would also be struck with poverty.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Tell me, how many millionaire high-school dropouts do **you **know?
Go to Phillips County, Arkansas, the poorest county in the whole United States, or to Lee County which borders Phillips County, and is the second poorest. Half the adult population in those counties is classed as functionally illiterate.
Take at look at the rates of out-of-wedlock births, drug abuse, and alcoholism.
Go to the poorest section of your town – you know, the section where you wouldn’t walk down the street alone at night – and look at the rates of adult illiteracy, out-of-wedlock births, drug abuse and alcoholism.
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bilop
Guest
I think people are misunderstanding Vern.
While it is true that some people are poor due to disability or illness, many are poor b/c of bad decisions in regards to education, drugs, etc., or the lack of a work ethic.
Both are true.
If it is the former, the affliction may be a source of grace, and help the person come closer to God. If it is the latter, they probably need to overcome their poor decisons first.
The Bible says many good things about the poor, but it also says “if a man will not work, neither shall he eat”.
God Bless
While it is true that some people are poor due to disability or illness, many are poor b/c of bad decisions in regards to education, drugs, etc., or the lack of a work ethic.
Both are true.
If it is the former, the affliction may be a source of grace, and help the person come closer to God. If it is the latter, they probably need to overcome their poor decisons first.
The Bible says many good things about the poor, but it also says “if a man will not work, neither shall he eat”.
God Bless
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goofyjim
Guest
Jesus says feed the poor. He doesn’t clarify by saying only those who are that way due to illness and disability. He would not leave anyone hungry, spiritually or physically.
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goofyjim
Guest
And did you ever question why some of those kids dropped out of school? Because their parents were bad as well and the child could not face his classmates? The blame game actually goes all the way back to our original parents Adam and Eve. Poverty is not necessarily anyone’s fault and I choose to help the poor indiscriminately. I do not ask a person why they are poor when I treat them to lunch. I just do it.
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bilop
Guest
I don’t think this is inconsistent at all with what I said.
The only thing that I would add is that when feeding the able-bodied poor, one can require them to work for their food.
Private charities used to do this before the government launched its welfare programs.
I see no reason why it couldn’t be done today.
If you need public assistance or charity, and are able bodied, you get help, but must work. Cleaning the streets, caring for the elderly and disabled, whatever.
God Bless
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