Is Praying in Tongues During Consecration an Abuse?

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At a mass celebrated by a “charismatic” priest, he invited those present to pray in tongues during the consecration - at the lifting of the host and again at the lifting of the chalice of wine.

Redemptionis Sacramentum emphasises that Eucharist Prayers are to be unaccompanied.

Is this an abuse?
:confused:
 
Why yes?

Are you a charismatic?

Redemptionis Sacramentum says:

[51.] Only those Eucharistic Prayers are to be used which are found in the Roman Missal or are legitimately approved by the Apostolic See, and according to the manner and the terms set forth by it. “**It is not to be tolerated ** that some Priests take upon themselves the right to compose their own Eucharistic Prayers” or to change the same texts approved by the Church, or to introduce others composed by private individuals.

[52.] The proclamation of the Eucharistic Prayer, which by its very nature is the climax of the whole celebration, is proper to the Priest by virtue of his Ordination. It is therefore an abuse to proffer it in such a way that some parts of the Eucharistic Prayer are recited by a Deacon, a lay minister, or by an individual member of the faithful, or by all members of the faithful together. The Eucharistic Prayer, then, is to be recited by the Priest alone in full.

[53.] While the Priest proclaims the Eucharistic Prayer **“there should be no other prayers or singing, and the organ or other musical instruments should be silent”, ** except for the people’s acclamations that have been duly approved, as described below.

[54.] The people, however, are always involved actively and never merely passively: for they “silently join themselves with the Priest in faith, as well as in their interventions during the course of the Eucharistic Prayer as prescribed, namely in the responses in the Preface dialogue, the Sanctus, the acclamation after the consecration and the “Amen” after the final doxology, and in other acclamations approved by the Conference of Bishops with the recognitio of the Holy See”.

Therefore, having any other prayers during the Eucharistic celebration, no matter how meaningful or well intended is a no no.
 
Im sorry…but I still do not fully understand all this Charismatic stuff…and I am completely suspect of all that goes on with them…However, I am not saying there is anything wrong with what they do…just that I have not been completely informed on the workings of their group. I just don’t understand how Catholics could exist for roughly 1,970 years…then all of a sudden bam!!!There are now Charismatic Catholics after VII. Does anyone else find this strange?
 
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dumspirospero:
Im sorry…but I still do not fully understand all this Charismatic stuff…and I am completely suspect of all that goes on with them…However, I am not saying there is anything wrong with what they do…just that I have not been completely informed on the workings of their group. I just don’t understand how Catholics could exist for roughly 1,970 years…then all of a sudden bam!!!There are now Charismatic Catholics after VII. Does anyone else find this strange?
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Me too!
I didn’t even know there was Charistmatic Catholics until I moved to Detroit and put my foot in my mouth at a Religious Education Meeting.
 
Charismatic is a style of worship, which is definitely not for everyone. However it is an approved movement of the Church.

If it is not for you, try to avoid Charismatic services or Masses–it will be less stressful for all.
 
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Mysty101:
Charismatic is a style of worship, which is definitely not for everyone. However it is an approved movement of the Church.

If it is not for you, try to avoid Charismatic services or Masses–it will be less stressful for all.
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What you have written is generally true, however

"Redemptionis Sacramentum says:

[51.] Only those Eucharistic Prayers are to be used which are found in the Roman Missal or are legitimately approved by the Apostolic See, and according to the manner and the terms set forth by it. “**It is not to be tolerated **that some Priests take upon themselves the right to compose their own Eucharistic Prayers” or to change the same texts approved by the Church, or to introduce others composed by private individuals."

At Mass any other prayer is NOT to be tolerated.
 
54.] The people, however, are always involved actively and never merely passively: for they “silently join themselves with the Priest in faith, as well as in their interventions during the course of the Eucharistic Prayer as prescribed, namely in the responses in the Preface dialogue, the Sanctus, the acclamation after the consecration and the “Amen” after the final doxology, and in other acclamations approved by the Conference of Bishops with the recognitio of the Holy See”.

So does this mean that we are not to pray silently in our own words? I don’t understand I usually exspress my gratitude to God for the new covenant that we are sharing, is this wrong?
 
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Mysty101:
Charismatic is a style of worship, which is definitely not for everyone. However it is an approved movement of the Church.

If it is not for you, try to avoid Charismatic services or Masses–it will be less stressful for all.
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So where is the guide I can check to see which parishes are Charismatic? Does anyone have one that I can see?
 
Can someone explain to me why it’s so great to speak in tongues if you’re not a missionary someplace where people don’t speak English? To me it just seems like a way for people to show off and to make people who don’t speak in tongues feel somehow less blessed or holy. I’ve seen a couple threads where people have been upset because they can’t speak in tongues. No good.
 
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Genesis315:
To me it just seems like a way for people to show off and to make people who don’t speak in tongues feel somehow less blessed or holy. I’ve seen a couple threads where people have been upset because they can’t speak in tongues. No good.
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I agree! To me it is also kind of creepy. I was at a meeting once where someone was suffering an illness, and someone suggested we all pray for her. As we were praying, one of the ladies started going, “Shhhhh, pitta, pitta, pitta” or something like that all throughout the prayers. I was freaked out. I thought her head was going to start spinning around or something.

Aunt Martha
 
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bob:
At a mass celebrated by a “charismatic” priest, he invited those present to pray in tongues during the consecration - at the lifting of the host and again at the lifting of the chalice of wine.
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Hmmm. Some people pray quietly by themselves when they pray in tongues. That is, it could have been indistinguishable from a regular mass. Then there is the out loud kind of thing, but that kind needs an interpreter? It would have been wrong for that kind, because only one person speaks at a time and it is interpreted, usually.

But I am more familiar with non-Catholic charismatic types, not the Catholic ones. Where’s RobertaF when you need her? (an old forum member).

I always pray quietly by myself at the consecration (and at other times in the mass, so long as I’m not distracted :whistle: ). I thought we were supposed to do that, to participate actively with prayer and attention to what’s going on and such.
 
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Pug:
Hmmm. Some people pray quietly by themselves when they pray in tongues. That is, it could have been indistinguishable from a regular mass. Then there is the out loud kind of thing, but that kind needs an interpreter? It would have been wrong for that kind, because only one person speaks at a time and it is interpreted, usually…
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Oh! No! It was a whole church (well… only feels like it) bursting with a cacophony of unintelligible voices.

I have nothing against charistmatics praying in tongues. Just felt that it was not the right time and the right place.
 
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bob:
Oh! No! It was a whole church (well… only feels like it) bursting with a cacophony of unintelligible voices.

I have nothing against charistmatics praying in tongues. Just felt that it was not the right time and the right place.
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I agree, it hardly seems like the right moment, but I don’t know enough about the legitimate Catholic Charismatic movement to know for sure. I’ve only been to one mass like that, and I don’t recall anything like what you describe happening there. It was mostly unexceptional.
 
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bob:
At a mass celebrated by a “charismatic” priest, he invited those present to pray in tongues during the consecration - at the lifting of the host and again at the lifting of the chalice of wine.

Redemptionis Sacramentum emphasises that Eucharist Prayers are to be unaccompanied.

Is this an abuse?
:confused:
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Just be thankful that they didn’t extend their hands towards the bread. I’ve heard of that happening in charismatic circles unfortunately. What you relate above, I’ve witnessed – though in what I witnessed the priest didn’t invite it; it just happened (though perhaps priests at the parish invited it previously unbeknownst to me)
 
Exporter said:
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What you have written is generally true, however

"Redemptionis Sacramentum says:

[51.] Only those Eucharistic Prayers are to be used which are found in the Roman Missal or are legitimately approved by the Apostolic See, and according to the manner and the terms set forth by it. “**It is not to be tolerated **that some Priests take upon themselves the right to compose their own Eucharistic Prayers” or to change the same texts approved by the Church, or to introduce others composed by private individuals."

At Mass any other prayer is NOT to be tolerated.
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Not to say it is right or wrong, but just to give a possible situation.

Some orders celebrate Mass slightly differently than the Roman rubrics, so there are exceptions made. I have seen praising in Tongues done at the elevation, never during the words of consecration—perhaps this would be a different situation? Also praying in tongues is not a “prayer composed”, since it is more like humming—there are no set “words”. I believe this instruction would refer to a prayer, which would be understood by the congregation.
 
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Mysty101:
Not to say it is right or wrong, but just to give a possible situation.

Some orders celebrate Mass slightly differently than the Roman rubrics, so there are exceptions made. I have seen praising in Tongues done at the elevation, never during the words of consecration—perhaps this would be a different situation?** Also praying in tongues is not a “prayer composed”, **since it is more like humming—there are no set “words”. I believe this instruction would refer to a prayer, which would be understood by the congregation.
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There it is, you said it, “praying in tongues”. Up above you see you wrote that praying in tongues IS a prayer. So refer to the Roman Missal. No other prayer OR a modified prayer shall be used. That means that no other prayers will be used.
 
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Genesis315:
Can someone explain to me why it’s so great to speak in tongues if you’re not a missionary someplace where people don’t speak English? To me it just seems like a way for people to show off and to make people who don’t speak in tongues feel somehow less blessed or holy. I’ve seen a couple threads where people have been upset because they can’t speak in tongues. No good.
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Praying in tongues, which is far more common than Speaking in tongues is not translatable. It is just using our voice, but not our mind to praise or pray (usually for healing).
Romans 8 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will.
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Exporter said:
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There it is, you said it, “praying in tongues”. Up above you see you wrote that praying in tongues IS a prayer. So refer to the Roman Missal. No other prayer OR a modified prayer shall be used. That means that no other prayers will be used.
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Praying in tongues is not a set prayer—I am just giving a possible explanation, but I believe the instructions are speaking of understandable words different than the set form of consecration. Also, as I said before, I am speaking of the time of elevation, not as the words are being spoken—there is a difference.
 
:bible1: 1 Corinthians 14:4 “Whoever speaks in a tongue builds himself up, but whoever prophesies builds up the church.” (NAB)

:tsktsk: At the pinnacle of the Eucharistic prayer we are lifting Christ up for worship, not ourselves. To engage in public self-aggrandizement at the moment of consecration detracts and distracts from our proper focus (to put it nicely).

:bible1: 1 Corinthians 14:22-23 “Thus, tongues are a sign not for those who believe but for unbelievers, whereas prophecy is not for unbelievers but for those who believe. So if the whole church meets in one place and everyone speaks in tongues, and then uninstructed people or unbelievers should come in, will they not say that you are out of your minds?” (NAB)

:tsktsk: At the moment of consecration we are united in pure worship of God. If there are unbelievers among us, speaking in “tongues” does nothing to enhance the moment.

:bible1: 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 “If anyone speaks in a tongue, let it be two or at most three, and each in turn, and one should interpret. But if there is no interpreter, the person should KEEP SILENT IN THE CHURCH and speak to himself and to God.” (NAB)

:tsktsk: Last time I checked, there was no place in the Eucharistic prayer for spontaneous impulsive public interjections of any kind, in ANY language, and there is definitely no place for an interpreter of such spontaneous impulsive public interjections. Mass is not a CNN news story, with a commentator describing the action.

😛 Then, of course, we haven’t even addressed the whole issue of whether “speaking in tongues” means “speaking in other legitimate languages” or “making mindless verbal utterances that may be a language to Martians or Venutians, if there were any of them present whom we could inspire.” Nearly every place in the bible that it uses the phrase “speaking in tongues” I find a footnote that says “speaking in other languages.” Somehow, I don’t think that “na-na-na-na-o-wa-o-wa” or anything like it qualifies as a language.
 
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