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Peter_Jericho
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Indeed. A person cannot be in full communion with both the RCC and the Anglican Communion. (Not that you ever thought otherwise, but you’re earlier post could have been misinterpreted.)
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Is Protestantism a good thing? (Or “Why I Kissed Ecumenism Goodbye”)
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Peter_Jericho
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Yes and no. I have at times been quite impressed at Evangelicals’ ability to back their claims up with Scripture, but there have also been times when I have found Evangelicals to have even more of a because-I-said-so mentality than we Catholics do.
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Peter_Jericho
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Ah. Perhaps the US could use more Protestantism – in the form of protest against our dominant religion (Protestantism).
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Presbyterian
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Protestantism is a great thing because it countered the secular centralization of power in the Catholic Church. Centralizing power is never a good idea for anyone because only the people attracted to it will go after it, and of those, only the most ruthless will retain it by using the power to make all others illegal.
I would be fine with that if the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church had proven a bit more resistant to secularism, but it hasn’t. It never has, and my gripe is that it in the modern world, it is allowing Communists in before reconciling with Protestants. We’ve been waiting for centuries for reconciliation with the Church, we’re more on your side, and you’re doing this Neo_Marxist, social justice bit?
I’d be fine with even that if you seemed to be winning, but you’re not. And to be fair, neither is the Presbyterian Church. We aren’t letting too many people in so they can hear Christ’s message, we’re cowering to them so they won’t attack us. Since when is that Christian? We stand in defiance of secular values. Lions can eat us and it won’t change our faith, so why is it changing the faith of the Catholic Church? You’ve got a social justice forum right here. Why does it exist?
I realize that I am posing tough questions in a harsh manner, that’s what Protestants do, but I don’t want to attack or defeat the Catholic Church. We have only ever wanted to reform it, and from what I can see, if you’re really going to go with this neo-marxist junk, the best bet is to re-integrate us. We’re the kinds of people who rebel against such things and we rather did create the most powerful nations in the world in relatively short order. Why would you ever not take us back first? Especially now.
Secularists are utterly wrecking the One Sacred Church from every angle, including within. The Church needs moral integrity, it needs numbers, it needs success, and it needs the faithful to prove the collectivists wrong by example. They’re collectivists FFS, they always look for example, why aren’t we giving it to them together?
Now is the time for reconciliation with Protestants. We went a little astray, we’re prodigal sons, we may or may not have accidentally triggered a leftist revolution, but we also found something awesome in the process - namely the ability of religion to become powerful through individualism. Is it so hard for the Holy Mother Church to accept that? Is it so hard for it to accept a little of what we do when the Church is trying to copy it in the worst way?
Bring us back. Forgive us under any terms save that we refuse to accept centralized power. You can even make us outcasts so long as we are released from excommunication. Christianity must stand together, and if you won’t be the martyrs, we will.
I would be fine with that if the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church had proven a bit more resistant to secularism, but it hasn’t. It never has, and my gripe is that it in the modern world, it is allowing Communists in before reconciling with Protestants. We’ve been waiting for centuries for reconciliation with the Church, we’re more on your side, and you’re doing this Neo_Marxist, social justice bit?
I’d be fine with even that if you seemed to be winning, but you’re not. And to be fair, neither is the Presbyterian Church. We aren’t letting too many people in so they can hear Christ’s message, we’re cowering to them so they won’t attack us. Since when is that Christian? We stand in defiance of secular values. Lions can eat us and it won’t change our faith, so why is it changing the faith of the Catholic Church? You’ve got a social justice forum right here. Why does it exist?
I realize that I am posing tough questions in a harsh manner, that’s what Protestants do, but I don’t want to attack or defeat the Catholic Church. We have only ever wanted to reform it, and from what I can see, if you’re really going to go with this neo-marxist junk, the best bet is to re-integrate us. We’re the kinds of people who rebel against such things and we rather did create the most powerful nations in the world in relatively short order. Why would you ever not take us back first? Especially now.
Secularists are utterly wrecking the One Sacred Church from every angle, including within. The Church needs moral integrity, it needs numbers, it needs success, and it needs the faithful to prove the collectivists wrong by example. They’re collectivists FFS, they always look for example, why aren’t we giving it to them together?
Now is the time for reconciliation with Protestants. We went a little astray, we’re prodigal sons, we may or may not have accidentally triggered a leftist revolution, but we also found something awesome in the process - namely the ability of religion to become powerful through individualism. Is it so hard for the Holy Mother Church to accept that? Is it so hard for it to accept a little of what we do when the Church is trying to copy it in the worst way?
Bring us back. Forgive us under any terms save that we refuse to accept centralized power. You can even make us outcasts so long as we are released from excommunication. Christianity must stand together, and if you won’t be the martyrs, we will.
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TULIPed
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It’s predestined to happen
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Peter_Jericho
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You seem to believe, if I’m understanding your post, that it is we Catholics who are the un-ecumenical ones … Have you ever taken a good hard look at Evangelicals??
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gohjedrek
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I think this is an interesting case in point. I used to think the catholics were un-ecumenical with their emphasis on the closed communion. However, that was because of their belief in the real presence in the eucharist, which many protestants would greatly disagree with.
Catholics have been ecumenical in many ways, they opened up the ordinariate for ex-anglicans, ex-lutherans and eastern catholic church for ex-orthodox. However, the caveat to that is that it needs to stay in line with the Church teaching, which is a good point.
As for reformed/evangelicals, they don’t really have a strict rule on communion, but there is a number of divisions. I talked to bible presbyterians recently and they disagree with the general presbyterians, on abstinence of wine and they only use the KJV bible for their bible studies. Without a centralised power, it is easy to fall into the trap of emphasising ones’ differences and form new denominations.
Catholics have been ecumenical in many ways, they opened up the ordinariate for ex-anglicans, ex-lutherans and eastern catholic church for ex-orthodox. However, the caveat to that is that it needs to stay in line with the Church teaching, which is a good point.
As for reformed/evangelicals, they don’t really have a strict rule on communion, but there is a number of divisions. I talked to bible presbyterians recently and they disagree with the general presbyterians, on abstinence of wine and they only use the KJV bible for their bible studies. Without a centralised power, it is easy to fall into the trap of emphasising ones’ differences and form new denominations.
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Peter_Jericho
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Hi gohjedrek. I don’t want to get off-topic, but I feel a need to say something to head off a severe misunderstanding about the Catholic Church. IDK if you have the time or willingness to read the entire Balamand Statement (an agreed statement from Catholic-Orthodox dialogue) but I want to at least quote one key statement from it, when it says that the “type of missionary activity, which has been called “uniatism”, cannot be accepted either as a method to follow or as a model for the unity which is being sought by our Churches.”
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Peter_Jericho
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BTW I have to wonder how many people got that “Why I Kissed Ecumenism Goodbye” is a takeoff from Joshua Harris’s book title, “Why I Kissed Dating Goodbye.” (Mind you, I realize this question may not be of much interest to others, I just wanted to say that I’m curious.)
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