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AngryAtheist8
Guest
How about Catholicism or Protestantism?
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Ignatius
Guest
Practically all of the original twelve Apostles who were witnesses to Christ and entire generations of the Early Christians died excruciating deaths rather than give up the Truth of Christ that they knew.
No one would do that for a scam; the idea is nonsensical. Whoever said that has never given serious study to facts of the Christian Faith.
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
Of course they would.
Plenty of people were willing to die for Communism or Nazism, and throughout history people have been willing to martyr themselves for causes almost as bad.
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Pieman333272
Guest
That was because they thought Communism and Nazism weren’t scams. The Apostles knew Christianity wasn’t a scam and died because of it.Their being martyred proves beyond any possible doubt - except by radical anti-Christian skeptics - that they were fully honest in their beliefs and reasons for having them.
Also, for what scamming reasons would Christianity even be “made up”, which it wasn’t?
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TruthSeeker60
Guest
The apostles may have been honest, yet mistaken.
More than 900 followers of Jim Jones died for their religion, but that doesn’t mean that the claims of there religion were true, and that their religion wasn’t a scam. They were honest in their beliefs, but mistaken.
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Pieman333272
Guest
Believe it or not, I agree. That is not what the “Apostles were martyred” is meant to answer. It is meant to debunk the claim that they founded Christianity as a way of monetary or political gain or lied about anything - or at least, the most important things - they believed. It is meant to prove they were honest with their beliefs. They could have been honestly mistaken, but it is still honest and sincere.
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TruthSeeker60
Guest
Looking back, I realize that misread what you wrote. When you wrote, “The Apostles knew Christianity wasn’t a scam and died because of it,” (post 303) I thought it said, “because they died for it.”
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cyberwolf001
Guest
Funny how they, that is the Atheists, keep saying there is no unity amongst Atheists then they do this.
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
No, it simply proves that they were sincere.
Just like the Nazi and Communist ‘martyrs.’
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
There isn’t.
Atheists can be capitalists, communists, humanists, or even sadists. There is no unifying organization or doctrine. The one thing that defines atheists is a disbelief in the supernatural.
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4Horsemen
Guest
Atheists can even be pro-life. There were some signs at the March for Life on Jan. 22nd in Washington, D.C. that read, “Atheists for Life.” (Are you pro-life?)
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Charlemagne_II
Guest
TruthSeeker
The apostles may have been honest, yet mistaken.
A scam is built on deliberate lies. Mistakes are not deliberate lies. And certainly the apostles and the Christian followers never believed they were mistaken.
Everything the apostles preached was based on what Christ preached. Was Christ mistaken? Prove it.
The apostles may have been honest, yet mistaken.
A scam is built on deliberate lies. Mistakes are not deliberate lies. And certainly the apostles and the Christian followers never believed they were mistaken.
Everything the apostles preached was based on what Christ preached. Was Christ mistaken? Prove it.
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4Horsemen
Guest
Christianity, as opposed to other religions, is most emphatic about the basic truth that all human life is precious having been created in the image and likeness of God from conception to natural death. Few religions have this fundamental belief. Many even required human sacrifice to pagan gods and idols in their rituals.
I would say that false religions are a scam, especially those designed for the profit of its leaders. As Scripture says, we can tell by its fruit.
I would say that false religions are a scam, especially those designed for the profit of its leaders. As Scripture says, we can tell by its fruit.
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Pieman333272
Guest
Not even that. Atheists are people who don’t believe in God. They are free to believe in the supernatural and keep that title.
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TruthSeeker60
Guest
I was specifically refuting the idea that because apostles of the founder of a religion died for their religion, that mean it wasn’t a scam. I agree with you that if the apostles were honestly mistaken, they weren’t scamming, but just because the apostles of the founder of a religion were honestly mistaken doesn’t mean that the religion isn’t a scam. The founder of the religion may be scamming, or successors of the apostles may be scamming.
My point was not that religion is a scam. While I definitely think there are scammers who take advantage of people’s religion, I think the average clergyman in most religions sincerely believes what he preaches.
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cyberwolf001
Guest
Then why all the talk of an Atheist agenda, the meetings, the organizations the Ads, the campagins…
Looks like a unified agenda, acts like a unified agenda, well you can finish the sentence.
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Curious_Seed
Guest
Not many Christians, or members of any organization, would maintain their status within it, “knowing in their hearts” it to be a scam.
Harbouring doubts, yes; knowing to be a scam, no.
There is nothing more factual about atheism than any religion, since in neither case is there empirical [factual] proof of God.
It is true that religion is hawking wishful thinking, while atheism’s thought is not to wish.
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UnityofTrinity
Guest
The matter is that the followers of Jim Jones “believe” that everything said by Jim was true. They believe it was the truth. How do you think the 12 disciples can matyr for a man who never lived, who never crucified, or someone who was crucified but never did any miracles nor rise up from the death? I know many people die for what they believe is the truth, I’ve never know anyone who die for what they KNOW is a lie.
That claim is a bit ridiculous to me, no wonder the Jesus Myth Theory never live strong among the majority of historians.
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Ignatius
Guest
You need to do a little homework on this incident. They were not aware of what was in the koolaid and many who discovered it were shot when they tried to escape. You are missing the important distinctions between the Christian martyrs and the Jim Jones murders.
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4Horsemen
Guest
There are atheist groups out there. The American Atheist group had an anti-Christmas message on a billboard in New Jersey: “You KNOW it’s a myth; this season celebrate REASON.” In London a group of atheists had anti-Christian messages put on 800 buses.
It’s atheism that is a scam.
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