Is removing The Book of Mormon from a hotel room theft?

[surfinpure]

UKcatholicGuy:

I agree. It would indeed be wrong to take something-- even a porn magazine-- from a roommate and destroy it, even if your intention is to keep him from sinning. But that’s not the example I used. I used the example of a porn magazine sitting in a hotel room drawer, just as many Bibles and other religious books are there. You seemed to be saying in a previous post that taking the Book of Mormon from the room-- desptie the fact that it’s there for people to take if they want it-- would be sinful. I disagreed, and used the hypothetical situation of finding a porn magazine in a hotel room drawer to make my case. Of course, I’d much rather have someone read the Book of Mormon than a porn magazine!! But they both (one MUCH more than the other) have the tendancy to lead someone away from the True Faith and Jesus Christ, and into falsehood. Therefore, I believe it is justified to take the Book of Mormon (or magazine) and throw it away. I say this only because the books are there for people to take. If it had someone’s name on the inside cover, that’d be a different story.

I agree, UK. Those books are placed there expressly for the purpose of being taken by someone. There can be no debating this, because we know that the Mormons are always eager to give away a copy of the Book of Mormon (much as we would be eager to give away a copy of the CCC). Furthermore, it is the responsibility of the hotel (via the maid service) to look after any personal effects left in the room. If they have left this material, which cannot be deemed “hotel” property, behind for anyone to take at will, then anyone may.

Also, I do not see how it can be called sin to remove and discard a pornographic magazine that belongs to no one in particular. There is no roommate in this scenario, there is only a hotel room.

I get the very unsettling impression that some people would rather kindly return Playboy to the lost and found at the front desk than get rid of the filth.

 

[UKcatholicGuy]

surf(name removed by moderator)ure:

I get the very unsettling impression that some people would rather kindly return Playboy to the lost and found at the front desk than get rid of the filth.

Ha, I fear you’re right!

God bless, surfin.

-UK

 

[kev7]

Do you recal what jesus did when he returned to the temple?

Was he stealing when he tossed the money out of the temple?

I would take that which is offensive to God and toss it out the window.

 

[qmvsimp]

UKcatholicGuy:

I agree. It would indeed be wrong to take something-- even a porn magazine-- from a roommate and destroy it, even if your intention is to keep him from sinning. But that’s not the example I used. I used the example of a porn magazine sitting in a hotel room drawer, just as many Bibles and other religious books are there. You seemed to be saying in a previous post that taking the Book of Mormon from the room-- desptie the fact that it’s there for people to take if they want it-- would be sinful. I disagreed, and used the hypothetical situation of finding a porn magazine in a hotel room drawer to make my case. Of course, I’d much rather have someone read the Book of Mormon than a porn magazine!! But they both (one MUCH more than the other) have the tendancy to lead someone away from the True Faith and Jesus Christ, and into falsehood. Therefore, I believe it is justified to take the Book of Mormon (or magazine) and throw it away. I say this only because the books are there for people to take. If it had someone’s name on the inside cover, that’d be a different story.

I only think it’s a sin if you’re taking it to destroy it. Taking gifts from well-intentioned people with the intention of destroying them, I think, is a sin. Why wouldn’t it be?

Would it be a sin to go to a food kitchen that serves poor hungry people, that doesn’t ask if you can pay or if you’re poor, and take your plate of food and throw it away everyday? I would say yes.

 

[qmvsimp]

kev7:

Do you recal what jesus did when he returned to the temple?

Was he stealing when he tossed the money out of the temple?

I would take that which is offensive to God and toss it out the window.

OK, so you could go to an adult bookstore and torch the place, and you would not have sinned, right?

Come on folks, it’s a sin to FORCE your moral beliefs (even if they’re right) on someone else without their consent.

Note that Jesus didn’t toss the money out of the temple, he merely turned over the tables. And there is a big difference about throwing away a porn mag someone has in a Church and throwing away one that is in a shared living area.

 

[qmvsimp]

surf(name removed by moderator)ure:

I agree, UK. Those books are placed there expressly for the purpose of being taken by someone. There can be no debating this, because we know that the Mormons are always eager to give away a copy of the Book of Mormon (much as we would be eager to give away a copy of the CCC). Furthermore, it is the responsibility of the hotel (via the maid service) to look after any personal effects left in the room. If they have left this material, which cannot be deemed “hotel” property, behind for anyone to take at will, then anyone may.

Also, I do not see how it can be called sin to remove and discard a pornographic magazine that belongs to no one in particular. There is no roommate in this scenario, there is only a hotel room.

I get the very unsettling impression that some people would rather kindly return Playboy to the lost and found at the front desk than get rid of the filth.

OK. I capitulate. Since it would no longer belong to anybody at that point, you can throw it away without sinning.

 

[Fergal]

Kay Walker:

I was severely tempted to remove The Book of Mormon that was in the hotel room, but thought that this may be stealing and so I left it (but not without a small act of vandalism – I wrote on one of the front pages, where it reads “Another testament of Jesus Christ…” "What?? Didn’t he get it right the first time?!?

I’m sorry my friend but your act of vandalism was not a proper move.

Please remember that within the book (whether we like it or not) are elements of truth. Did JPII not teach you anything?
You should have had respect for these elements.

 

[MrS]

Put a sticker on it that says “Catholic Bible”

chances are greatly increased that the next person will not read it

 

[surfinpure]

qmvsimp:

I only think it’s a sin if you’re taking it to destroy it. Taking gifts from well-intentioned people with the intention of destroying them, I think, is a sin. Why wouldn’t it be?

You may be right. But what if one were to take the book home and read it, and then destroy it afterward if they feel it necessary?

How do you feel about the Watchtower magazines, etc.? I understand that the principle of taking something in order to destroy it may be sin, but how far should we go to respect the intentions of the person who is misleading many, even into hell?

This is not a rhetorical question. I really don’t know.

 

[deb1]

Instead of taking the book, discreetly tuck a few pamphlets in its pages. Can you imagine the surprise the next visitor will get after opening the book and some Catholic tracts flutter down onto his/her lap? You could turn the book into a very clever apologetics tool.

 

[Fergal]

deb1:

Instead of taking the book, discreetly tuck a few pamphlets in its pages. Can you imagine the surprise the next visitor will get after opening the book and some Catholic tracts flutter down onto his/her lap? You could turn the book into a very clever apologetics tool.

A far more constructive idea.

 

[muledog]

Kay Walker:

Over Memorial Day weekend, my husband and I visited beautiful Moab, Utah. I was severely tempted to remove The Book of Mormon that was in the hotel room, but thought that this may be stealing and so I left it (but not without a small act of vandalism – I wrote on one of the front pages, where it reads “Another testament of Jesus Christ…” "What?? Didn’t he get it right the first time?!?

I had also noticed that the housekeeping carts each had a supply of the book – ready to replace any that go missing from the rooms, so removing the book would not have kept one out of the hands of the next traveler – potentially a poorly catechized or wavering Catholic.

I’ve considered that someone taking the book with them who is sincerely interested in the Mormonism would not be stealing since the purpose of the book being in the room is probably 1) to comfort the traveling Mormon, and 2) to evangelize (same dual purpose as the Bibles placed in the rooms by the Gideons, I think). Anyway, to remove the book only to throw it away seemed questionable to me – possibly theft. The good intent of keeping it out of the hands of the next unsuspecting Catholic or christian traveler would not necessarily justify the bad means (i.e. theft). Thoughts?

I spoke with the managers of two local hotels. They both said that the Gideon Bibles that are left in the rooms are not to be taken. As I thought beforehand, the removal of the Book of Mormons from your hotel room would, indeed be theft, unless you receive prior permission from the hotel staff.

That being said, I feel that your proper recourse would be 1) to speak with the hotel manager and voice your disapproval of the BOM in your room, 2) ask the manager for permission to place “Catholic” liturature in the room(s), or 3) stay at another hotel.

In Manibus Dei,

• Mike M.

 

[qmvsimp]

MrS:

Put a sticker on it that says “Catholic Bible”

chances are greatly increased that the next person will not read it

While that is funny, it is also very sad, but true. Evangelicals, Mormons and Jehovah’s would definitely not read it. They read their Bibles all the time. Most Catholics wouldn’t bother reading it.

 

[qmvsimp]

surf(name removed by moderator)ure:

You may be right. But what if one were to take the book home and read it, and then destroy it afterward if they feel it necessary?

How do you feel about the Watchtower magazines, etc.? I understand that the principle of taking something in order to destroy it may be sin, but how far should we go to respect the intentions of the person who is misleading many, even into hell?

This is not a rhetorical question. I really don’t know.

I think if you are going to make any use of it other than firewood, then it would be OK. That’s clearly the intention of those leaving the books.

If a speaker is on the street preaching things that will lead people to hell, it would be a sin to forceably stop him against his will. However, it would be appropriate to stand there with him and correct his errors to the listeners. This would be similar to leaving Catholic literature inside or on the Book of Mormon.

 

[qmvsimp]

muledog:

I spoke with the managers of two local hotels. They both said that the Gideon Bibles that are left in the rooms are not to be taken. As I thought beforehand, the removal of the Book of Mormons from your hotel room would, indeed be theft, unless you receive prior permission from the hotel staff.

That being said, I feel that your proper recourse would be 1) to speak with the hotel manager and voice your disapproval of the BOM in your room, 2) ask the manager for permission to place “Catholic” liturature in the room(s), or 3) stay at another hotel.

In Manibus Dei,

• Mike M.

I don’t think that applies to the Book of Mormon. The Mormon Church gives free Books of Mormon to whomever asks for one. Check the book out and see who published it. I think you’ll see that they’re all published by the Mormon Church.

In fact, it might be against Mormon rules to sell one.

 

[surfinpure]

muledog:

I spoke with the managers of two local hotels. They both said that the Gideon Bibles that are left in the rooms are not to be taken.

I’d be curious to know how the Gideons feel about that. :ehh:

 

[Steven_Merten]

Mark Twain once said, “The book of Mormon is the greatest peice of plagerism I have ever read.” I have to laugh and agree. When I read some of the book of Mormon, I continually saw slightly changed passages stolen from the King James Version bible.

Stealing a book full of stolen passages. Now there is a concept!

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

qmvsimp:

I don’t think that applies to the Book of Mormon. The Mormon Church gives free Books of Mormon to whomever asks for one. Check the book out and see who published it. I think you’ll see that they’re all published by the Mormon Church.

In fact, it might be against Mormon rules to sell one.

I’ve lost mine - I seem to remember the BoM has nice pictures with captions; I wouldn’t mind having a replacement… - and it was hardbound ​

Apparently 27,000 words of the AV(AKA the KJV) are to be found in it: large sections of Isaiah & the Sermon on the Mount in particular.

I do have a copy of “Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures” - but it was rather a - so I’ve not read it for years.

 

[TeriGator]

qmvsimp:

I don’t think that applies to the Book of Mormon. The Mormon Church gives free Books of Mormon to whomever asks for one. Check the book out and see who published it. I think you’ll see that they’re all published by the Mormon Church.

In fact, it might be against Mormon rules to sell one.

Nah, you can get em at Deseret Book. I used to have several.

 

[surfinpure]

Steven Merten:

Mark Twain once said, “The book of Mormon is the greatest peice of plagerism I have ever read.” I have to laugh and agree. When I read some of the book of Mormon, I continually saw slightly changed passages stolen from the King James Version bible.

Stealing a book full of stolen passages. Now there is a concept!

Thanks, Steven. This thread needed a dose of levity.