Is seat hopping at a sporting event a sin?

[jimmy]

If you want to feel morally superior because you sit in the cheap seats, fine…but the fact remains that it’s absolutely insane to see sin in seatjumping.

Perhaps the Catechism should be revised to forbid seatjumping.

I guess if you come here long enough, literally everything will be sinful to someone…

The first good post I’ve seen on the moral theology forum in a Long time.

 

[Aeden]

If you want to feel morally superior because you sit in the cheap seats, fine…but the fact remains that it’s absolutely insane to see sin in seatjumping.

Perhaps the Catechism should be revised to forbid seatjumping.

I guess if you come here long enough, literally everything will be sinful to someone…

You can feel like I am an elitist for stating that it looks sinful, if you feel like it. It isn’t. It doesn’t directly harm somebody, but neither does fraud, neither do some other sins, they are still sins.

The Catchism won’t forbid everything in existence that is sinful, the list would be infinite. this is an application of the use of known moral principles.

 

[AloysiusBologna]

WWJD?..

Jesus “denounces religious hypocrisy, behavior that wants to show off, attitudes that seek applause and approval,” the pope said in his homily during Mass on Wednesday in St. Peter’s Basilica. “The true disciple does not serve himself or the ‘public,’ but his Lord, in simplicity and generosity.”

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

WWJD?..

Jesus “denounces religious hypocrisy, behavior that wants to show off, attitudes that seek applause and approval,” the pope said in his homily during Mass on Wednesday in St. Peter’s Basilica. “The true disciple does not serve himself or the ‘public,’ but his Lord, in simplicity and generosity.”

This is very true, but at the same time, i’m not sure what it has to do with this thread.

 

[AloysiusBologna]

Seat Jumping’s sinfulness is surely less than cheating, but that discussion starts on a downward path…
Surely the acceptance of a lessor seat would allow an opportunity for the owners to be generous. Surely we have been guided about accepting a lower position in order to serve. Surely what a great example and testament it would be for the players, owners, and other attendees to note that they could identify the Christians by their “Higher Seats of Support”.
Or…here’s an old one…maybe we should just “avoid the opportunity to sin” give the $8.00 beer money to the poor and watch the game at our local pub. Guess it all depends on the “social norms” of the community…question truly is…to which community do we wish to belong? It would be very simple to and a generous gesture to only accept the seat for which we paid…Who knows, maybe that small gesture on our part would be just enough to spark interest in the teachings of Christ, just enough to enhance the glow, just enough to allow the light to be seen in someone’s darkness. I think that maybe the idea of expecting more than we deserve could be an example of religious hypocrisy…And if the statement is true, is not our example of import? Maybe we can share our view of the universe, and by doing so bring all to know not only our hearts, but our hope as well. I think the quote has much to do with this discussion and with serving in simplicity and generosity. WWJD?

 

[PolarGuy]

Aloysius, unfortunately your post plays into precisely what I’ve termed “something being sinful by six degrees of separation,” i.e., we’re not supposed to “sit in the good seats” out of some (misguided) notion that by doing so, we are somehow being proud, calling undue attention to ourselves, etc. – in other words, we are sinning. Interesting that you also picked up on the notion that the least sinful thing to do would be to simply not go at all, and from there it’s not a stretch to conclude that what we ought to do is simply spend every waking moment of every day in Church praying the rosary, and that it’s sinful to do otherwise.

Catholicism need not equal a boring, anti-fun, and/or hermitlike existence.

Seriously, if everyone ever took this approach, it’s no wonder some men on this thread are even married at all “Oh, no, Ms. Date, I know I took you to the ballpark and all, but it would be lying, and hence a sin to move up 5 rows to get away from the drunks who are making fun of you!.” (good luck getting a second date, you milquetoasty wuss! the ballparks I frequent aren’t teaparties!)

Seriously, folks, this thread is becoming embarrassing.

 

[jimmy]

Aloysius, unfortunately your post plays into precisely what I’ve termed “something being sinful by six degrees of separation,” i.e., we’re not supposed to “sit in the good seats” out of some (misguided) notion that by doing so, we are somehow being proud, calling undue attention to ourselves, etc. – in other words, we are sinning. Interesting that you also picked up on the notion that the least sinful thing to do would be to simply not go at all, and from there it’s not a stretch to conclude that what we ought to do is simply spend every waking moment of every day in Church praying the rosary, and that it’s sinful to do otherwise.

Catholicism need not equal a boring, anti-fun, and/or hermitlike existence.

Seriously, if everyone ever took this approach, it’s no wonder some men on this thread are even married at all “Oh, no, Ms. Date, I know I took you to the ballpark and all, but it would be lying, and hence a sin to move up 5 rows to get away from the drunks who are making fun of you!.” (good luck getting a second date, you milquetoasty wuss! the ballparks I frequent aren’t teaparties!)

Seriously, folks, this thread is becoming embarrassing.

I don’t think any of them have any sexual desire, so why would they go on a date with a girl? I heard recently about someone who wanted to marry a robot. I think that would be a popular idea around here. Too much personality in a real woman, and besides, she might arouse desire.

 

[Aeden]

Interesting that you also picked up on the notion that the least sinful thing to do would be to simply not go at all, and from there it’s not a stretch to conclude that what we ought to do is simply spend every waking moment of every day in Church praying the rosary, and that it’s sinful to do otherwise.

Nobody said that. You buy tickets for seats within a certain area and those are the seats you may use. This is not drawl, or monotonous, as you indicate, but is simply keeping a promise implied at the time of the purchase.

Seriously, if everyone ever took this approach, it’s no wonder some men on this thread are even married at all “Oh, no, Ms. Date, I know I took you to the ballpark and all, but it would be lying, and hence a sin to move up 5 rows to get away from the drunks who are making fun of you!.” (good luck getting a second date, you milquetoasty wuss! the ballparks I frequent aren’t teaparties!).

False choice. There are many options available to you. You can move seats within the area that your tickets provide for you. You can have the drunks removed because they seem to pose a threat. There is a plethora of options available and you are, quite honestly, being disingenuous by indicating otherwise.

 

[PolarGuy]

Aeden, I am not going to let you get the last word, because a) your theology is, with all due respect, bad; and b) I’m not milquetoasty.

I have many options when the drunks get loud at my date. When seconds count, security is just minutes away. Point is: I could just move up 5 rows, because I want to, and to heck with security, and I didn’t sin by doing so.

 

[april32010]

Aeden, I am not going to let you get the last word, because a) your theology is, with all due respect, bad; and b) I’m not milquetoasty.

I have many options when the drunks get loud at my date. When seconds count, security is just minutes away. Point is: I could just move up 5 rows, because I want to, and to heck with security, and I didn’t sin by doing so.

why not move back 5 rows

 

[Aeden]

Aeden, I am not going to let you get the last word, because a) your theology is, with all due respect, bad; and b) I’m not milquetoasty.

I have many options when the drunks get loud at my date. When seconds count, security is just minutes away. Point is: I could just move up 5 rows, because I want to, and to heck with security, and I didn’t sin by doing so.

I’m the first to say that I don’t know everything, but this strikes me as a rather apparent thing.

Neither am I, nice word, by the way, I actually had to google that one.

As April put it, why not move back five rows? That still accomplishes your apparent goal of getting your hypothetical date away from hypothetical drunks. You can’t breach your agreement and take more than you bought by moving up through the rows, since that is taking more than you paid for. It is really that simple and I am sorry if you can not see it properly. Your mentality is very similar to that of pirates on the internet, “if it is something I want and isn’t nailed down, I’ll go get it.”

 

[PolarGuy]

The world is full of people. At the ballpark, some will move back 5 rows. Some will move up 5 rows. It’s a metaphor for life.

So long as there is no morally repugnant reason why I cannot move up 5 rows…I choose to move up.

The world is also full of people who are are scared to death of moving up. Some of those decide that because they are afraid to do so, they will construct a reason why its sinful to do so. Some of those in turn decide that the seatjumpers are sinful, when the nonseatjumpers are just milquetoasty instead.

I am not saying that anyone is milquetoasty. But I am saying, “don’t call me sinful because I have ambition to move up and you don’t.”

Jimmy, I like your posts.

 

[JustCath]

. . .

As April put it, why not move back five rows? That still accomplishes your apparent goal of getting your hypothetical date away from hypothetical drunks. . .

I am quite certain that if the hypotheticsl drunks observed one move back to get away from them instead of moving up, that one would get a hypothetical wedgy in the presence of his date. Even absent the wedgy, moving back would probably eternally freeze a second date in the “hypothetical” category.

 

[PolarGuy]

JustCath, now that is moral theology I agree with!!

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

Is the contract requiring you to stay in the specific seat stated, implied, or merely conjecture?

 

[Aeden]

Is the contract requiring you to stay in the specific seat stated, implied, or merely conjecture?

Your purchase is for a seat in a very specific area, so it is not even implied, it is quite apparent. Breaking the contract is sinful, because in buying a ticket for that area, you are agreeing that that is the area in which you will sit when you attend.

Compare it to this: if you buy a ticket for a seat at The Nutcracker in new york and you move from the cheapest seats, from which you can’t get a good view, to some of the most expensive seats where the view is fantastic, is that sinful?

 

[garn9173]

No, it’s not a sin. The seat is empty and clearly has not been sold. The club is not losing any $ on it. If anything, they get a benefit, since your “ballpark experience” is improved and you become more likely to return.

Also, most stadiums/ballclubs allow this since they don’t want their expensive seats empty. They want the good seats filled somehow. In Las Vegas showrooms, sometimes good seats are given to lesser payers to make the room look full. It’s referred to as “dressing the room.”

Upgrade to the better seats! Catholicism need not equal “sitting timidly and fearfully and letting life pass you by.”

Not to mention, that’s what the TV folks want as well.

 

[CradleJourney]

Your purchase is for a seat in a very specific area, so it is not even implied, it is quite apparent. Breaking the contract is sinful, because in buying a ticket for that area, you are agreeing that that is the area in which you will sit when you attend.

No, it is the area in which I am guaranteed a seat. I purchased the right to that seat for a particular event, and thus I am entitled to it. People may be willing or able to pay more for a more expensive seat and that is fine. But the owners of the venue have received their revenue from the tickets they sold and (imo) are no longer able to be the victim of “theft”. Even if moving up to an unsold seat, the venue management still has the chance to sell it all the way up to the last minute of the game - in which case the ticket holder would appear and I would move. If the venue is concerned, they have can have ushers who insure that only people with the proper ticket enter a particular area (as is done at some facilities I have attended.) If they don’t, then I presume it is of no importance to them.

My thought -
If I take a number at the fabric counter, and some of the people who have taken numbers before me leave before my entitled turn comes up, I get to go ahead and receive service then - not wait the estimated time until I would have been served. Nor do I need to allow the people who have numbers after me to go ahead of me until my designated time arrives. So just because I am entitled to be #24, doesn’t mean that I can’t be helped as person #14. I can’t take someone else’s spot without them giving it up, but once they do, then it’s of no moral consequence (imo) if I take it instead.

::::donning goggles, hair net, and coveralls:::: Okay, I think I’m prepared to be splatted Btw - chocolate cream pies are my favorites so throw them at me first, okay? I’m a newbie.

 

[Joe_5859]

I’ve never seen the word “milquetoasty” used so many times in one thread.

The real question is: Is it a sin to leave your assigned seat to chase after a foul ball? If it lands in the empty seat three rows down, would it be stealing to take it? Or isn’t it always stealing to keep a foul ball? After all, you pay for your seat, not stray baseballs. Wouldn’t the proper thing be to return the ball to its rightful owner at the end of the game?

 

[AloysiusBologna]

Polar…please read again. I began by noting “downward path”…

Let us just say seating hopping is being a little selfish…if you are naive and don’t know any better then I don’t think you could possibly say hopping would be a sin…If you did it for fun…then it would be fun…But with full knowledge…which perhaps this thread will approximate…then I think maybe “the sly one” is making a start down another downward path…or maybe we should recognize they all could lead away from God.

Avoid temptation…just go to your local pub and watch with others…Better camera views , less costly beer…